Orbis - the original thread
- Thread starter Ahwaric
- Start date
I just fought a castle commander in a Mechano city, I assume that isn't supposed to happen. Also, occasionally I seem to find castle and fort commanders just chilling on empty terrain? I assume the castle got destroyed somehow, and the unit remained, but I honestly have no idea.
Also the Clipper naval unit seems pretty ridiculously weak. Frigates upgrade to them, but by doing so they drop 4/2 strength. I realize that the clipper has more movement and the ability to enter enemy borders, but that seems like a huge hit. Maybe remove the bonus and normalize mov't with frigate, and up the unit's strength by like 5/4?
Also, if you know of a way to extract the new civilopedia entries from the mod, I'd be glad to edit them for you. After all, I am an english major.
edit: I've done some thinking, and I came up with a few more ideas I think would benefit the mod.
First of all, I'd like to see a lot more racial specialization. I realize that this is a tough thing to do, and that balancing all the new UU would be tricky but I believe it would add a lot more replayability and would really help in differentiating the different races (right now a good half play pretty much the same). Maybe add more stuff like Sheaim's Obsidian Gates and the Dwarven vaults, stuff that doesn't drastically overpower or change the game but just adds a touch of flavor. If you choose to pursue this, I'd be more than willing to propose a few concepts.
Secondly I would like to see more function with the guilds. Guild-specific units and buildings would be interesting, and on that note I'd like to say that the execution of the mercenary guild is really well done. I don't know how you set up the recruitment menu, but it really makes the guild a lot more fun. Now what we need to do is make all the other guilds on par. [edit: Now that I think about it, this should probably wait until Kael announces what they're doing with guilds in the next version]
Also I think it would be f'ing amazing if you could merge the FiRe (revolution for FFH) mod with this one, once Fire is functional and stable. This is probably impossible, but would also be the greatest thing ever if pulled off.
Also the Clipper naval unit seems pretty ridiculously weak. Frigates upgrade to them, but by doing so they drop 4/2 strength. I realize that the clipper has more movement and the ability to enter enemy borders, but that seems like a huge hit. Maybe remove the bonus and normalize mov't with frigate, and up the unit's strength by like 5/4?
Also, if you know of a way to extract the new civilopedia entries from the mod, I'd be glad to edit them for you. After all, I am an english major.
edit: I've done some thinking, and I came up with a few more ideas I think would benefit the mod.
First of all, I'd like to see a lot more racial specialization. I realize that this is a tough thing to do, and that balancing all the new UU would be tricky but I believe it would add a lot more replayability and would really help in differentiating the different races (right now a good half play pretty much the same). Maybe add more stuff like Sheaim's Obsidian Gates and the Dwarven vaults, stuff that doesn't drastically overpower or change the game but just adds a touch of flavor. If you choose to pursue this, I'd be more than willing to propose a few concepts.
Secondly I would like to see more function with the guilds. Guild-specific units and buildings would be interesting, and on that note I'd like to say that the execution of the mercenary guild is really well done. I don't know how you set up the recruitment menu, but it really makes the guild a lot more fun. Now what we need to do is make all the other guilds on par. [edit: Now that I think about it, this should probably wait until Kael announces what they're doing with guilds in the next version]
Also I think it would be f'ing amazing if you could merge the FiRe (revolution for FFH) mod with this one, once Fire is functional and stable. This is probably impossible, but would also be the greatest thing ever if pulled off.
Ahwaric
Shrubbery-hugger
Commanders (both fort & castle ones) should get killed when the fort is razed.
They are not blocked for barbarians, so there is a marginal chance that they will spawn as a barbarian unit and then got captured... I will test if that is the case, and block if necessary. Anyone have seen a "wild" commander?
The one in the city could get expelled from a fort in foreign territory when borders got closed. The same might have happened with some of the commanders outside forts.
Clippers are not really intended as a combat vessel. You have two - frigate (fast) & man-o-war (slow but powerfull).
In fact, they are more of Galleon upgrade - drop some cargo space but can deliver it much faster. I will check and maybe a clipper by a point, but no more.
By the way, I have spotted that I only increased the attack strength of the ships. I will do the same with defence in the next patch.
There are two ways:Also, if you know of a way to extract the new civilopedia entries from the mod, I'd be glad to edit them for you. After all, I am an english major.
- prefered one - if you have office 2007, just download Orbi editor (linked in the first post), and check "Orbi" sheet. If you need older office version, I may provide just this sheet in other format. I do not have open office here, so I hope you can convert it to work with OO
- you can manually open xml files (i.e. in notepad) and fill the appropiate fields. All are in, but some need more text or fixing/checking. But if you use this method, I will have to manually move all your additions to mod editor. Anyway, the file you need is CIV4GameText_Orbi.xml
Sure
I can't promise to add everything you propose (either due to technical limitations or my own preferences), but I would like to hear the ideas. More flavor is always a nice thingThere is quite a lot of guild-specific stuff - every executive is special and evry guild have it's own special building. I do not want to have so much stuff as religions do. You can have many guilds at once and use all their specials at the same time. But I plan to expand them a bit, especially if Kael will not.
@Caradoc
That is strange. A save would be helpfull.
Well, I'm about to run off to class right now but before I go, I have a few real fuzzy, preliminary ideas. First of all I'll take a look at those documents later today, once I finish all my class work.
Second, I think the easiest way to provide a little more flavor for each side might be to just add a few racial abilities here and there. For example, the Kuriotates horseman have the sprint ability (they also don't require horses, but this makes sense given the turtle-ish nature of the civ). A couple of preliminary ideas I've come up with: give the Luchuirp modular upgrades. For example, when you get access to catapults allows them to upgrade to receive siege weapon capabilities, maybe even allow them to shapeshift between different modes. You could drop their defensive strength a bit, but allow them to change between Offensive/Defensive/Siege modes. Would be a bit tough to implement this - I'm thinking either exclusively allow their hero the option (which would make him a lot more useful later in the game).. or, is it possible to charge gold for a promotion?
I've got a couple more but I better run, class in like 4 minutes. I'll edit this post with the rest when I get back.
Second, I think the easiest way to provide a little more flavor for each side might be to just add a few racial abilities here and there. For example, the Kuriotates horseman have the sprint ability (they also don't require horses, but this makes sense given the turtle-ish nature of the civ). A couple of preliminary ideas I've come up with: give the Luchuirp modular upgrades. For example, when you get access to catapults allows them to upgrade to receive siege weapon capabilities, maybe even allow them to shapeshift between different modes. You could drop their defensive strength a bit, but allow them to change between Offensive/Defensive/Siege modes. Would be a bit tough to implement this - I'm thinking either exclusively allow their hero the option (which would make him a lot more useful later in the game).. or, is it possible to charge gold for a promotion?
I've got a couple more but I better run, class in like 4 minutes. I'll edit this post with the rest when I get back.
sputnik323
Magelord
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2008
- Messages
- 394
@Skobrin - I like the idea of giving luchuirp modular upgrades if they require certain buildings... and maybe change the fireballs woodgolems wield to no colateral damage, but... I dont know what has been changed cause I haven't played Luchuirp in orbis.
@Ahwaric - haven't seen any weird commander stuff in my game...
i also am getting a CTD in a test game I was running - not sure if its a bug from vanillia or not; Im trying to narrow down the turn just before the crash, do you want the save?
@Ahwaric - haven't seen any weird commander stuff in my game...
i also am getting a CTD in a test game I was running - not sure if its a bug from vanillia or not; Im trying to narrow down the turn just before the crash, do you want the save?
Okay, before I get too lost in my own thoughts, I figured it would be best to take all the civilizations in this mod and break them down into groups. The first group is that of the civilizations that I feel lack a distinct play style, and thus should have some fairly significant changes to bring them up to par.
So far, I have the following down as need significant work: Amurites, Hippus, Lanun, Luchirp, Malakim, Elohim, and Mechanos. In the case of Amurites, Hippus, Lanun, and Mechanos I believe the problem could be solved by retooling specific unit lines. In the case of Amurites, either an assortment of UU casters, or as a mod I just read about did, some new spells that only they have access to. For the Hippus I think that they should either receive a line of UU mounted units or become more focused on mercenary recruitment. For the Lanun, UU naval units or more hybrid land-water units (like the war turtle). For the Mechanos, as you already stated replacing their archery line with an assortment of gunpowder units would be fine. What to do with the Malakim and Elohim, I have no idea, but I'll keep thinking about it.
Additionally I just want to say, if anyone disagrees with my categorization of the civs or my opinion on what to do to solve the problem, please give me some feedback. More opinions is always better.
Anyway, next are the civilizations that I believe have a unique feel but could use a touch of flavor, though they do not necessarily need to be totally retooled: Bannor (crusade is nice, but not enough to make them interesting), Clan of Embers (maybe a couple more UU troll/ogre types? or maybe move training yard up a tech level), Doviello (shapeshifting is nice, but I'd like to see more forms available for different uses [stealth form, flight form, etc would be amazing], Grigori, Sidar, Ljosalfar, and Svartalfar. In the case of the elves I feel that they are both interesting and fun (love my builder civs) but are just too similar too each other.
Finally the civilizations I believe are unique enough to not warrant any changes, but might require slight tweaks for balance (or significant tweaks for balance, depending on how the other civilizations are altered): Balseraph, Calabim, Illian, Khazad, Kuriotates, Sheaim, Infernal, and Mercurian. Though Mercurian I am on the fence about, they are so radically different (as are the Infernals), but I don't feel like they do much other than be a sidekick.
edit: in the case of the Sidar I would honestly like to see their assassins lose the stealth and maybe get some more builder-type UBs? I feel like the stealth just forces you to micromanage that much more, and is a bit overpowered. Maybe they should just get a UU that can't attack but has invisibility and decent range of vision. I can imagine if they ever solve the OOS problem, fighting a Sidar player would be super annoying - you'd have to guard every worker you had.
also I would really like to see some of the mastery towers redesigned. Right now they're all pretty mediocre considering the effort involved.. and I'm still a supporter of expanding the tech tree more.. maybe alignment specific technologies. Also, I think slavery is a micro-management nightmare.. maybe the capture rate should drop to 10% and the abilities they have should be significantly increased (the ability for all civs to upgrade to infantry would be nice, and Doviello could just get a bonus.. maybe everyone gets -1 strength on upgraded slaves, and they get a bonus +1 strength.
So far, I have the following down as need significant work: Amurites, Hippus, Lanun, Luchirp, Malakim, Elohim, and Mechanos. In the case of Amurites, Hippus, Lanun, and Mechanos I believe the problem could be solved by retooling specific unit lines. In the case of Amurites, either an assortment of UU casters, or as a mod I just read about did, some new spells that only they have access to. For the Hippus I think that they should either receive a line of UU mounted units or become more focused on mercenary recruitment. For the Lanun, UU naval units or more hybrid land-water units (like the war turtle). For the Mechanos, as you already stated replacing their archery line with an assortment of gunpowder units would be fine. What to do with the Malakim and Elohim, I have no idea, but I'll keep thinking about it.
Additionally I just want to say, if anyone disagrees with my categorization of the civs or my opinion on what to do to solve the problem, please give me some feedback. More opinions is always better.
Anyway, next are the civilizations that I believe have a unique feel but could use a touch of flavor, though they do not necessarily need to be totally retooled: Bannor (crusade is nice, but not enough to make them interesting), Clan of Embers (maybe a couple more UU troll/ogre types? or maybe move training yard up a tech level), Doviello (shapeshifting is nice, but I'd like to see more forms available for different uses [stealth form, flight form, etc would be amazing], Grigori, Sidar, Ljosalfar, and Svartalfar. In the case of the elves I feel that they are both interesting and fun (love my builder civs) but are just too similar too each other.
Finally the civilizations I believe are unique enough to not warrant any changes, but might require slight tweaks for balance (or significant tweaks for balance, depending on how the other civilizations are altered): Balseraph, Calabim, Illian, Khazad, Kuriotates, Sheaim, Infernal, and Mercurian. Though Mercurian I am on the fence about, they are so radically different (as are the Infernals), but I don't feel like they do much other than be a sidekick.
edit: in the case of the Sidar I would honestly like to see their assassins lose the stealth and maybe get some more builder-type UBs? I feel like the stealth just forces you to micromanage that much more, and is a bit overpowered. Maybe they should just get a UU that can't attack but has invisibility and decent range of vision. I can imagine if they ever solve the OOS problem, fighting a Sidar player would be super annoying - you'd have to guard every worker you had.
also I would really like to see some of the mastery towers redesigned. Right now they're all pretty mediocre considering the effort involved.. and I'm still a supporter of expanding the tech tree more.. maybe alignment specific technologies. Also, I think slavery is a micro-management nightmare.. maybe the capture rate should drop to 10% and the abilities they have should be significantly increased (the ability for all civs to upgrade to infantry would be nice, and Doviello could just get a bonus.. maybe everyone gets -1 strength on upgraded slaves, and they get a bonus +1 strength.
I'm pretty afraid to play Red Alert 3.. I was a huge fan of RA2 and Yuri's Revenge was such a piece of garbage. Also, EA is behind it and we all know what they like to do successful but innovative game series (ie rape them for cash).
Imagine if there were a Luchuirp unit designer, a la Gal Civ 2. We could eliminate all the different types of golemns and basically every Luchuirp unit, and just provide different choices of material, chasis, locomotion, weapon.. it would be pretty awesome.
Imagine if there were a Luchuirp unit designer, a la Gal Civ 2. We could eliminate all the different types of golemns and basically every Luchuirp unit, and just provide different choices of material, chasis, locomotion, weapon.. it would be pretty awesome.
Ahwaric
Shrubbery-hugger
Some of my own ideas:
@sputnik323
Saves help a lot. Not only I can look at the particular problem you have, I also can check how the things work in different games
- Fireballs & meteors can no longer bombard (or just a bit). Stone walls are quite resistant to fire I think - you can burn most of the city inside, but walls will still stand.
- Elves get ballista unique unit (replaces catapult)
- Golems no longer get fireball ability from blasting workshop, I want to remove this ability or to make it really special (ie avaliable for high-end units only)
- Blasting workshop is removed (or possibly given another ability)
- Golems built in city with forge get "forged" promotion which can be exchanged for light, heavy and possibly other promotions (allowing bombard damage, collateral damage etc.). you can only take one special promotion per unit
- Modular upgrades are nice but may be a bit heavy on micro-management (imagine a whole army of golems using crew mechanics). That is probably a good idea for a hero, but does not fit barnaxus. Another hero/special unit (like khazad /mechanos steam tanks?) may get it
@sputnik323
Saves help a lot. Not only I can look at the particular problem you have, I also can check how the things work in different games
(Long, rambling post ahead) How effective would the ballista be at reducing city's defense value? Ballistas are typically more of an anti-unit siege weapon than an anti-building weapon. I mean, without Fireballs to take down a city's defenses, I don't know how the elves could ever pull off a city assault.
I agree with you on removing Golem's fireball ability (or limit it to the end-tier golems, ie Bone, Nullstone, can't remember all the rest) and I suppose the best route for the regular golems would be exclusive upgrades based on buildings. Though you could expand it slightly, is it possible to limit the unit to 1 upgrade but add more available (and powerful, though there would have to be negatives with the most powerful for the sake of balance) promotions as the player acquires more buildings? You wouldn't even have to necessarily add buildings, you could tie a +collateral damage upgrade to having a blasting workshop, etc. Additionally I would like to see more promotions for Barnaxus, if this is possible. Once you get him maxed out on strength, there really isn't a point to leveling him further.
About the other civs -
I feel that the Amurites should become more spell-caster oriented. I'm not sure what the best way of doing this would be, but I'm thinking either new spells (rework metamagic for the civ, or maybe just a few here and there) or a couple more UU that are hybrid caster/whatever to give them a more arcane feel [if done, might be wise to redo their hero. teaching units spells seems pretty dull, maybe he should have a more active ability?]
The Hippus seem especially bland to me. I'm not really sure which they lean more towards, but I'm thinking either focus them on mercenary recruitment. Maybe the ability to recruit lower-tier mercenaries before the guild becomes available, or a discount, or something. Or you could go the other route, and just provide them with a series of UU mounted units that have a significant bonus of some sort, and maybe lower their defensive strength a bit to balance this?
I think the Lanun are fairly interesting as is (the giant turtle is awesome) but I would like to see at least a couple more UU naval units, or maybe another UU naval/land hybrid or two. Actually, earlier I was thinking about it and I thought maybe access to some sort of mobile barracks type ship - a la Red Alert 2. A giant hero ship that has the ability to produce ships, boarding parties, maybe even land units? This would be mighty powerful, would probably require that the civ be weakened in exchange for building it - maybe a huge upkeep?
Not really sure what to do with the Elohim. Tolerant is interesting enough, but I really feel that they should actively benefit from keeping the AC counter low. Maybe some sort of UB, something that gives a bonus if the AC is say, under 40, but starts to hinder you as the AC counter rises. That way Elohim players would really need to try to keep down AV and sanctify cities, as they should be according to the lore.
Finally I just played a quick game as the Mechanos, and I noticed that they have zeppelins early on by no later game flying units. Maybe they should have some of their naval units replaced with UU flying units? Could always drop the movement by 1/3rd or something, try to to keep it from being too OP. (On that note, I think the Kuriotates ship has far too much mov't.. I think it has like 5 in vanilla FFH2) [Of course this is in addition to gunpowder UU that you said you were working on].
About the Malakim, I think the new improvement goes a long way to helping them out. A couple of camel UU would be nice, though, and would really make them feel more desert-y. Also their civ-specific pagan temple uses the same image as the Empyrean temple.
I agree with you on removing Golem's fireball ability (or limit it to the end-tier golems, ie Bone, Nullstone, can't remember all the rest) and I suppose the best route for the regular golems would be exclusive upgrades based on buildings. Though you could expand it slightly, is it possible to limit the unit to 1 upgrade but add more available (and powerful, though there would have to be negatives with the most powerful for the sake of balance) promotions as the player acquires more buildings? You wouldn't even have to necessarily add buildings, you could tie a +collateral damage upgrade to having a blasting workshop, etc. Additionally I would like to see more promotions for Barnaxus, if this is possible. Once you get him maxed out on strength, there really isn't a point to leveling him further.
About the other civs -
I feel that the Amurites should become more spell-caster oriented. I'm not sure what the best way of doing this would be, but I'm thinking either new spells (rework metamagic for the civ, or maybe just a few here and there) or a couple more UU that are hybrid caster/whatever to give them a more arcane feel [if done, might be wise to redo their hero. teaching units spells seems pretty dull, maybe he should have a more active ability?]
The Hippus seem especially bland to me. I'm not really sure which they lean more towards, but I'm thinking either focus them on mercenary recruitment. Maybe the ability to recruit lower-tier mercenaries before the guild becomes available, or a discount, or something. Or you could go the other route, and just provide them with a series of UU mounted units that have a significant bonus of some sort, and maybe lower their defensive strength a bit to balance this?
I think the Lanun are fairly interesting as is (the giant turtle is awesome) but I would like to see at least a couple more UU naval units, or maybe another UU naval/land hybrid or two. Actually, earlier I was thinking about it and I thought maybe access to some sort of mobile barracks type ship - a la Red Alert 2. A giant hero ship that has the ability to produce ships, boarding parties, maybe even land units? This would be mighty powerful, would probably require that the civ be weakened in exchange for building it - maybe a huge upkeep?
Not really sure what to do with the Elohim. Tolerant is interesting enough, but I really feel that they should actively benefit from keeping the AC counter low. Maybe some sort of UB, something that gives a bonus if the AC is say, under 40, but starts to hinder you as the AC counter rises. That way Elohim players would really need to try to keep down AV and sanctify cities, as they should be according to the lore.
Finally I just played a quick game as the Mechanos, and I noticed that they have zeppelins early on by no later game flying units. Maybe they should have some of their naval units replaced with UU flying units? Could always drop the movement by 1/3rd or something, try to to keep it from being too OP. (On that note, I think the Kuriotates ship has far too much mov't.. I think it has like 5 in vanilla FFH2) [Of course this is in addition to gunpowder UU that you said you were working on].
About the Malakim, I think the new improvement goes a long way to helping them out. A couple of camel UU would be nice, though, and would really make them feel more desert-y. Also their civ-specific pagan temple uses the same image as the Empyrean temple.
scaramouche
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 64
Stupid newb question here but how exactly do I get the mod running? Do I start up FfH and then load Orbis? When I do that, I keep getting crash to desktop as it's trying to initialize the engine (this is on vista). Do I need to do the 'h' patch to the Orbis folder as well as ffh? I'm sure I'm missing something very basic here, but so it goes!
sputnik323
Magelord
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2008
- Messages
- 394
@Ahwaric, I really like the ideas you have been thinking of except one. I think golems should no longer be able to make fireballs - but sparks, esentially a weaker form of a fireball that can only do a little collateral damage, and put them on iron not wood golems. wood should be weak to fire right? That way a blasting shop still has its uses, since it adds flavor to Lurchip... maybe woodgolems can get the hide promotion in forests or something else to make up for the loss of throwing fireballs. - one possibility would be to consume a forest and make other wood golems after so many turns...
@Glig - I noticed education was a huge tech, but haven't played Amurites recently... that probably should be looked into...
@scaramouche - Install Civ4 BTS to latest patch. Install FFH2. install patch H of FFH2. Install Orbis .14 Install to patch b. - after you have done all of this, there should be an Icon on your desktop to load directly to Orbis... if not, open your Orbi folder and load from there, it is much easier and faster than loading through FFH2.
@Skobrin - I agree and like the idea of more UU... I think it would be helpful to describe each new unit you would add and explain why it would be good and balanced. not sure I agree with some of your other ideas i.e. slavery, but that is just my personal preference. I would actually like slavery available at masony for evil civs... and leave it where it is for neutral and good civs.
EDIT: I accidently loaded an old save and Im not getting the CTD anymore, sorry, will send one next time.
@Glig - I noticed education was a huge tech, but haven't played Amurites recently... that probably should be looked into...
@scaramouche - Install Civ4 BTS to latest patch. Install FFH2. install patch H of FFH2. Install Orbis .14 Install to patch b. - after you have done all of this, there should be an Icon on your desktop to load directly to Orbis... if not, open your Orbi folder and load from there, it is much easier and faster than loading through FFH2.
@Skobrin - I agree and like the idea of more UU... I think it would be helpful to describe each new unit you would add and explain why it would be good and balanced. not sure I agree with some of your other ideas i.e. slavery, but that is just my personal preference. I would actually like slavery available at masony for evil civs... and leave it where it is for neutral and good civs.
EDIT: I accidently loaded an old save and Im not getting the CTD anymore, sorry, will send one next time.
In response to your comment suptinik, I too think that evil civilizations should either get the slavery civic earlier or have an increased chance of successfully getting a slave in combat. But right now, I feel like slavery is just way, way too micromanagement intensive in a big game. Sometimes I literally have dozens of slaves running around, and its just a hassle. Why not drop the chance of capture to say, 20 or 30% of what it is now, but increase their effectiveness by a similar amount? Less micromanagement, same effect.
edit: Also, give me a day or two to come up with some ideas on all those UU. If anyone else has any ideas, please contribute though.. I doubt I can do it all myself!
Also, I don't really like the idea of giving wood golems the ability to stealth in a forest. It just doesn't make sense to me, and the Von Neuman device seems ridiculously overpowered. I think the spell should just be removed entirely, and as we were talking about earlier, have an optional upgrade that requires a Blasting Workshop that gives the golem the ability to bombard city defenses and a small amount of collateral damage - but requires the golem to attack, no spellcaster stuff.
edit: Also, give me a day or two to come up with some ideas on all those UU. If anyone else has any ideas, please contribute though.. I doubt I can do it all myself!
Also, I don't really like the idea of giving wood golems the ability to stealth in a forest. It just doesn't make sense to me, and the Von Neuman device seems ridiculously overpowered.
I think the spell should just be removed entirely, and as we were talking about earlier, have an optional upgrade that requires a Blasting Workshop that gives the golem the ability to bombard city defenses and a small amount of collateral damage - but requires the golem to attack, no spellcaster stuff.
sputnik323
Magelord
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2008
- Messages
- 394
@Skobrin if its just the ammount of slaves you have, you probably already know but... you can turn them into production, delete them (but why delete when them can be made into production ) or make them automated. Towards the end of my game i do more automation to reduce micromanagement... I will also adopt Undercouncil to be able to buy slaves, then turn them into production, then hurry buildings which is sometimes its cheaper that way. - especially if it is a wonder. Slaves work so slowly that you buy a bunch, build improvements than turn them into production when they are no longer needed, thats what makes them way better than workers.
) or make them automated. Towards the end of my game i do more automation to reduce micromanagement... I will also adopt Undercouncil to be able to buy slaves, then turn them into production, then hurry buildings which is sometimes its cheaper that way. - especially if it is a wonder. Slaves work so slowly that you buy a bunch, build improvements than turn them into production when they are no longer needed, thats what makes them way better than workers.
Ahwaric
Shrubbery-hugger
@scaramouche
Sputnik already told you how to install it, but you should get patch c instead of b (as b is not avaliable any more).
Just make sure you have BtS updated to 3.17 (it is required for base mod, too), and FfH installed and patched to 34 h.
Unless you deselect this option, the icon is created at your desktop. Just click it.
@Gilg
Education is intended to be expensive tech, but it is a bit much. I will cut 1/4 or 1/3 of the cost.
@Skobrin & sputink 323
I do not really plan changes to slaves. Kael spent a lot of time to balance them and I do not want to mess it.
You can just add production in city using them and you are aware they can be bought thanks to undercouncil resoultion?
I do not know of any elegant way to add slavery civic earlier to evil civs. I may either move it to masonry or just keep where it is.
Good civs can not adopt it anyway.
I am adding new UU but it is true, telling me what exactly you want and why may convice me and help me with implementing. I usually change some things though
Some of the units that will be in the next version:
Wood golems with stealth in forest does not sound right to me.
Sparks on the other hand, just for iron golems, doing weak electrical damage might be ok. Especially that luirchup lack ranged damage (only gargoyles I think).
Another possibility is blasting workshop granting +1 electrical or fire combat for iron golems, maybe clockwork too.
Sputnik already told you how to install it, but you should get patch c instead of b (as b is not avaliable any more).
Just make sure you have BtS updated to 3.17 (it is required for base mod, too), and FfH installed and patched to 34 h.
Unless you deselect this option, the icon is created at your desktop. Just click it.
@Gilg
Education is intended to be expensive tech, but it is a bit much. I will cut 1/4 or 1/3 of the cost.
@Skobrin & sputink 323
I do not really plan changes to slaves. Kael spent a lot of time to balance them and I do not want to mess it.
You can just add production in city using them and you are aware they can be bought thanks to undercouncil resoultion?
I do not know of any elegant way to add slavery civic earlier to evil civs. I may either move it to masonry or just keep where it is.
Good civs can not adopt it anyway.
I am adding new UU but it is true, telling me what exactly you want and why may convice me and help me with implementing. I usually change some things though
Some of the units that will be in the next version:
- hospitalier - elohim unique paladin, -1 to holy attack, can cast cure disease & heal, has medic 2
- spellsword/battlemage (depends on the final unit looks) - amurite heavy infantry with channeling I or even II, can learn spells but no free xp (so you need to buy spells using combat xp)
- ballista - alfar catapults, better against units, less collateral, weaker bombard (romans & especially greeks used it as siege engines)
Wood golems with stealth in forest does not sound right to me.
Sparks on the other hand, just for iron golems, doing weak electrical damage might be ok. Especially that luirchup lack ranged damage (only gargoyles I think).
Another possibility is blasting workshop granting +1 electrical or fire combat for iron golems, maybe clockwork too.
Caradoc
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,010
Well, let's see...
First, I'd like a bunch more guild-specific events. These might be triggered by some of the guilds' activities, such as having a Prospector's guild event occur as a result of mining or prospecting.
Second, I really like UUs and UBs. Every civ should be as distinctive as the Balseraphs.
Third, I'd like to see the trend toward more elaborate and varied outcomes for dungeon exploration continue. More decision points. Better rewards.
Fourth, I'd like to bring back the top level Improvements for resources. Maybe a tech is required to upgrade a Mine to a Deep Mine, for instance. And there are never enough resources.
Fifth, let's have some specialized workers. Maybe it's not necessary to implement the full worker mod, but let's have a fast worker, a stealthy worker, a road builder, and make the 'elf' ability available to everyone -- all based on Tech advances or Guild buildings. How about a way to build canals -- i.e. new branches of rivers?
Sixth, introduce some magic-oriented Guilds that either provide a promotion (mini Govannon) or produce a magic oriented unit, such as an Enchanter who would have Enchantment I and II, but not be able to get other promotions.
Uh oh, I seem to be getting carried away here. But once you have figured out what enhancements you want to do, I'll try to give you some more specific ideas.
BTW: Once I restarted, the Prospector/Miner messages came back. Even with saved games. Go figure.
First, I'd like a bunch more guild-specific events. These might be triggered by some of the guilds' activities, such as having a Prospector's guild event occur as a result of mining or prospecting.
Second, I really like UUs and UBs. Every civ should be as distinctive as the Balseraphs.
Third, I'd like to see the trend toward more elaborate and varied outcomes for dungeon exploration continue. More decision points. Better rewards.
Fourth, I'd like to bring back the top level Improvements for resources. Maybe a tech is required to upgrade a Mine to a Deep Mine, for instance. And there are never enough resources.
Fifth, let's have some specialized workers. Maybe it's not necessary to implement the full worker mod, but let's have a fast worker, a stealthy worker, a road builder, and make the 'elf' ability available to everyone -- all based on Tech advances or Guild buildings. How about a way to build canals -- i.e. new branches of rivers?
Sixth, introduce some magic-oriented Guilds that either provide a promotion (mini Govannon) or produce a magic oriented unit, such as an Enchanter who would have Enchantment I and II, but not be able to get other promotions.
Uh oh, I seem to be getting carried away here. But once you have figured out what enhancements you want to do, I'll try to give you some more specific ideas.
BTW: Once I restarted, the Prospector/Miner messages came back. Even with saved games. Go figure.
Really enjoying this mod - just a couple of questions:
A Barbarian city is founded over a resource and i raze to leave behind ruins. My workers cannot build the required improvement (mine, plantation etc) over this ruin and i cant pillage it - am i missing something or is this a bug?
Are all units able to be built without the neccessary buildings (swordsmen requiring training yard / horsemen requiring stables etc) is this a feature, bug or hidden option turned on?
Rangers are incredibly powerful with Iron upgrades - again is this "working as intended"?
A Barbarian city is founded over a resource and i raze to leave behind ruins. My workers cannot build the required improvement (mine, plantation etc) over this ruin and i cant pillage it - am i missing something or is this a bug?
Are all units able to be built without the neccessary buildings (swordsmen requiring training yard / horsemen requiring stables etc) is this a feature, bug or hidden option turned on?
Rangers are incredibly powerful with Iron upgrades - again is this "working as intended"?
Ahwaric< I think I understand why education is meant to be expensive... But it would be nice to get gowannon and not stray to much from te magic research line..... Perhaps the long wanted Amurite overhaul could include a uu or ub at monasticism in order to include that line of techs more in their priorities.
