Deon
Lt. of Mordor
Do you have "all unique features" option? For me it's not there (custom game).
Orbis - the original thread
- Thread starter Ahwaric
- Start date
coreybowman
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2008
- Messages
- 102
ahwaric i have another CTD in the continuation of the game i gave you last. im going to try to isolate it for you but right now it is crashing half way through the other civs turn.ill post it for you around 1:00pm EST.
coreybowman
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2008
- Messages
- 102
this is what is causing the CTD. i had the event where i get an ogre, lizardman, and something else. i can ungrade the ogre to stoneskin or something else. either upgrade causes a CTD. seems like it will be another art file. ill post you a save to look at after school, but like i said this is the problem. if i dont upgrade the game playes fine. cant remember the civs exact name of the top of my head but im the lizard civ. if you forgot.
coreybowman
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2008
- Messages
- 102
here is the save. the ogre is in the city directily east of the three basium cities in the middle of my empire. promote, end turn then you should have a CTD.
Hey, great work again!!
There is an issue with advanced start: classical will give everybody Steam Power. Well, its more a general issue as they get Seafaring, too, but this is not that anoying like an AI stupidely building refineries everywhere. Some chance fixing it to the next patch?
And than I made some more tests with the AI and building units finding out that it is usually not that bad. However, in the beginning it may be: quite usually (not always) they have 2 cities but around 30 units. If they do so having a strong enemy around, with some war (especially useful with survival with generals), ok, but not always, isn't it? After some time they become normal and start expanding properly.
Is there a possibility to deactivate the AI tweak you included or modifying it not to exaggerate - i.e. no more than 5 units per town in the beginning?
Ah, yes, is it usual that firebows cannot range attack? I just wonder because you can give them the promotions respectively (at least these should empower fireballs than?)
Greetings!
There is an issue with advanced start: classical will give everybody Steam Power. Well, its more a general issue as they get Seafaring, too, but this is not that anoying like an AI stupidely building refineries everywhere. Some chance fixing it to the next patch?
And than I made some more tests with the AI and building units finding out that it is usually not that bad. However, in the beginning it may be: quite usually (not always) they have 2 cities but around 30 units. If they do so having a strong enemy around, with some war (especially useful with survival with generals), ok, but not always, isn't it? After some time they become normal and start expanding properly.
Is there a possibility to deactivate the AI tweak you included or modifying it not to exaggerate - i.e. no more than 5 units per town in the beginning?
Ah, yes, is it usual that firebows cannot range attack? I just wonder because you can give them the promotions respectively (at least these should empower fireballs than?)
Greetings!
Deon
Lt. of Mordor
May I suggest reworking of the Dimensional sphere?
For now it's all about teleport-teleport-teleport...
And the level 2 spell (Gate) is cool but sometimes it's not that useful.
Example: usually if you want to quickly move a stack of units to another place while you gate them one-by-one the stack can get there itself (quite long time). Also something that benefits the caster could be applied.
So what about this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7655313&postcount=60 as Dimensional II spell?
And then you can make archmage spell "Gate" which creates a Gate building which allows instant moving of unlimited amount of units/turn. A good archmage-level spell and VERY useful in big empires.
For now it's all about teleport-teleport-teleport...
And the level 2 spell (Gate) is cool but sometimes it's not that useful.
Example: usually if you want to quickly move a stack of units to another place while you gate them one-by-one the stack can get there itself (quite long time). Also something that benefits the caster could be applied.
So what about this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7655313&postcount=60 as Dimensional II spell?
And then you can make archmage spell "Gate" which creates a Gate building which allows instant moving of unlimited amount of units/turn. A good archmage-level spell and VERY useful in big empires.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Actually, buildings can allow airlifting more than one unit per turn quite easily, but unlimited is impossible. Making a Gate building with an Airlift limit in the hundreds would be easy though, and probably more than enough. I think that when there is such a building in a city that you can transport stacks without needing to break them up.
I would add such a spell in my version, but right now I'm thinking an ICBM-style transport unit may be better, as you could transport a small stack to just about any tile on the map (the exceptions being that you can't go within one tile of neutral territory or units, and that nuking tiles occupied by enemies would kill the unit) with only xml changes. For each Mobility promotion (from the caster's Extension promotions) it can move to any tile in the world an extra time, so you can summon it in your capital, send it to the other side of the world to pick up a stack of injured units, and then bring all the units back home safely.
Then again, I was planning to give most top sphere promotions multiple spells, so having both might spells here might be best. I think I would probably find the ICBM-transporter more useful, but the AI couldn't be taught to use it and they already understand airlifting from city to city quite well.
Dimensional Pocket could be cool, but it sounds hard to implement. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to give a unit a promotion granting INVISIBLE_ALL and making it DOMAIN_IMMOBILE, but I'm pretty sure it would still be vulnerable to damage through spells. Oh, and the current implementation of Dies Diei would also make the unit visible and thus vulnerable to normal attacks if within the owner's boarders.
I'm thinking allowing a Unsummon spell at Dimensional II could be good, or just having the promotion give a nice summon perk promotion to units summoned by the caster.
I would add such a spell in my version, but right now I'm thinking an ICBM-style transport unit may be better, as you could transport a small stack to just about any tile on the map (the exceptions being that you can't go within one tile of neutral territory or units, and that nuking tiles occupied by enemies would kill the unit) with only xml changes. For each Mobility promotion (from the caster's Extension promotions) it can move to any tile in the world an extra time, so you can summon it in your capital, send it to the other side of the world to pick up a stack of injured units, and then bring all the units back home safely.
Then again, I was planning to give most top sphere promotions multiple spells, so having both might spells here might be best. I think I would probably find the ICBM-transporter more useful, but the AI couldn't be taught to use it and they already understand airlifting from city to city quite well.
Dimensional Pocket could be cool, but it sounds hard to implement. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to give a unit a promotion granting INVISIBLE_ALL and making it DOMAIN_IMMOBILE, but I'm pretty sure it would still be vulnerable to damage through spells. Oh, and the current implementation of Dies Diei would also make the unit visible and thus vulnerable to normal attacks if within the owner's boarders.
I'm thinking allowing a Unsummon spell at Dimensional II could be good, or just having the promotion give a nice summon perk promotion to units summoned by the caster.
Ahwaric
Shrubbery-hugger
@coreybowman
I have checked your file and was able to get the crash but only once, I was also able to upgrade the ogre without the crash. So far, no idea how to fix it (or what the actuall cause is)
@arbor
Steam power will now be medieval tech, so no more free granting in classical start
I need to check how does the "fix" work, and try to fix it if necessary. So far, I am not sure if it is really broken.
Firebows can't use ranged attack as they can cast fireball from the start. Unfortunatelly, I can't disable the promotion for just one unit and not the whole archer unitcombat. Simply do not take promotions you can't really use (and I think AI will avoid them, too).
@Deon
AllUniqueFeatures shows fine for me, so I think there is something wrong with your installation.
I agree that dimensional mana could use some diversification. So, what spell should I cut? Or should I add another without cutting any?
Dimensional pocket is a nice idea, but I have to agree with everything MC said. Hard to code, and moreover, not that usefull in my opinion.
I really like the banish idea - either as an instant killing spell or spell granting promotion with bonus against summoned units. Will think how to code it... Adding some small bonuses to summoned units, just like the metamagic promotions increase damage is good too. But as summoning is really powerful already, the bonus has to be minor only.
Increasing gate transporting capacity is a nice idea, too.
By the way, another patch is ready - so you can see these great seZ's models using Orbis, too. Saves are ok.
I have checked your file and was able to get the crash but only once, I was also able to upgrade the ogre without the crash. So far, no idea how to fix it (or what the actuall cause is)
@arbor
Steam power will now be medieval tech, so no more free granting in classical start
I need to check how does the "fix" work, and try to fix it if necessary. So far, I am not sure if it is really broken.
Firebows can't use ranged attack as they can cast fireball from the start. Unfortunatelly, I can't disable the promotion for just one unit and not the whole archer unitcombat. Simply do not take promotions you can't really use (and I think AI will avoid them, too).
@Deon
AllUniqueFeatures shows fine for me, so I think there is something wrong with your installation.
I agree that dimensional mana could use some diversification. So, what spell should I cut? Or should I add another without cutting any?
Dimensional pocket is a nice idea, but I have to agree with everything MC said. Hard to code, and moreover, not that usefull in my opinion.
I really like the banish idea - either as an instant killing spell or spell granting promotion with bonus against summoned units. Will think how to code it... Adding some small bonuses to summoned units, just like the metamagic promotions increase damage is good too. But as summoning is really powerful already, the bonus has to be minor only.
Increasing gate transporting capacity is a nice idea, too.
By the way, another patch is ready - so you can see these great seZ's models using Orbis, too. Saves are ok.
Deon
Lt. of Mordor
OK, I've got it. Maybe I'll come up with an idea how to code it 
.
By the way, Magister, shouldn't the magic resistance of 100% be a counter to spell damage? Then the only problem here is Dies Dei.
. By the way, Magister, shouldn't the magic resistance of 100% be a counter to spell damage? Then the only problem here is Dies Dei.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Well, I guess that making it <bImmuneToMagic>1</bImmuneToMagic> and having 100% resistances to all damage types would defend them from all XML-only spells, but not from spells using python. A Lich with such promotion could still be killed by Destroy Undead, for example.
sputnik323
Magelord
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2008
- Messages
- 394
Hey Ahwaric - was reading some of the forums and want to repeat some ideas that I think would be awesome - westamastaflash suggested having discovered a religion gives you a disciple rather than randomly choosing a city to be the holy city. This would really help as its annoying when a size 1 city takes it.
marnok also had a good suggestion. Giving the workers the ability to 'work' quarries which gives them abilities (spells). So they can cast create fort, create walls, or create supplies. The workers work for like 10 or 20 turns in the quarry and then have the ability to cast. For balance issues the workers could be consumed in casting. Just liked this idea and thought I would pass it along.
- another thing... Im still stuck in patch c because of a fun game so I don't know if this has been fixed or if its just an option I'm not seeing, but I have forced open borders with every one... it starts that way and you can never close them... it is kind of nice to declare war while you are deep in enemy territory, but I think it is a bug.
After playing a few games and thinking about forts and castles I was wondering what your thoughts were about a change. Because they give 0% culture, do you think forts and keeps could have +1 radius and Castles have +2 (in the wild) (or make a promotion that commanders could get after +1 operational range allowing this)? Most times borders are determined by military, not culture. Otherwise the middle east would have vastly different borders than they do now!
marnok also had a good suggestion. Giving the workers the ability to 'work' quarries which gives them abilities (spells). So they can cast create fort, create walls, or create supplies. The workers work for like 10 or 20 turns in the quarry and then have the ability to cast. For balance issues the workers could be consumed in casting. Just liked this idea and thought I would pass it along.
- another thing... Im still stuck in patch c because of a fun game so I don't know if this has been fixed or if its just an option I'm not seeing, but I have forced open borders with every one... it starts that way and you can never close them... it is kind of nice to declare war while you are deep in enemy territory, but I think it is a bug.
After playing a few games and thinking about forts and castles I was wondering what your thoughts were about a change. Because they give 0% culture, do you think forts and keeps could have +1 radius and Castles have +2 (in the wild) (or make a promotion that commanders could get after +1 operational range allowing this)? Most times borders are determined by military, not culture. Otherwise the middle east would have vastly different borders than they do now!
StormbringerGT
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 75
Hey Me and my buddy are playing together online and about 250 turns in, we keep out of syncing... I'm not sure exactly what causes it but if we save and leave and load up the save it goes away for a few turns and comes back.
After playing several games with this mod, here are some comments about some civics (and how I changed them):
- Agrariarism: -5% on research from agrariarism is not needed.
- Theocracy: -80% on city maintenance is not needed. This civic already gives nice benefits.
- Republic: Yield, culture and improvement growth bonuses are not needed. I think it should give +3 happines on largest cities, gold hurry and maybe +1 wealth from town.
-Scholarship: +3 science per specialist, +25% war weariness.
-Liberty: +100% culture, +100% improvement growth . No state religion. Diplomatic benfits with civilizations who have liberty implemented. Considered high compassion. Unhappiness penalty to civilizations without liberty. +1 unhappines per military unit stationed in the city (computes greatly with the concept of liberty). It would be nice to have diplomatic penalty with evil civs or the ones ho haven't implemented libety, I don't know how to do it. Also, I wonder if putting -400 to civicpercentanger tag on another civic would cancel the effect of Liberty (ia: Sacrifice the weak)
-Caste system: +2 culture per specialist, unlimited bard sage and merchant.
-Guilds: +1gold per specialist. -25% corporation maintenance. +1 wealth from workshop.
-Mercantilism: No foreing corporations. No foreign trade routes. +25% gold. +25% corporation maintenance (the logic behind it is that mercantilism invests in your own corporations to beat foreign ones)
-Foreign Trade: +1 trade routes. +1 coastal trade routes. +50% trade route yield. -25% corporation maintenance.
-Shadow court: (+50% gold in every city is just too much, I removed it). No maintenance for corporations. No non-state religion spread.
Also it would be nice to have corporations competing between them like in vanilla, this would prevent several corporation heardquarters in the same city, then build Bazar of Mammon+tax office+bank+god king.
- Agrariarism: -5% on research from agrariarism is not needed.
- Theocracy: -80% on city maintenance is not needed. This civic already gives nice benefits.
- Republic: Yield, culture and improvement growth bonuses are not needed. I think it should give +3 happines on largest cities, gold hurry and maybe +1 wealth from town.
-Scholarship: +3 science per specialist, +25% war weariness.
-Liberty: +100% culture, +100% improvement growth . No state religion. Diplomatic benfits with civilizations who have liberty implemented. Considered high compassion. Unhappiness penalty to civilizations without liberty. +1 unhappines per military unit stationed in the city (computes greatly with the concept of liberty). It would be nice to have diplomatic penalty with evil civs or the ones ho haven't implemented libety, I don't know how to do it. Also, I wonder if putting -400 to civicpercentanger tag on another civic would cancel the effect of Liberty (ia: Sacrifice the weak)
-Caste system: +2 culture per specialist, unlimited bard sage and merchant.
-Guilds: +1gold per specialist. -25% corporation maintenance. +1 wealth from workshop.
-Mercantilism: No foreing corporations. No foreign trade routes. +25% gold. +25% corporation maintenance (the logic behind it is that mercantilism invests in your own corporations to beat foreign ones)
-Foreign Trade: +1 trade routes. +1 coastal trade routes. +50% trade route yield. -25% corporation maintenance.
-Shadow court: (+50% gold in every city is just too much, I removed it). No maintenance for corporations. No non-state religion spread.
Also it would be nice to have corporations competing between them like in vanilla, this would prevent several corporation heardquarters in the same city, then build Bazar of Mammon+tax office+bank+god king.
Hi all,
@sputnik323 the open borders issue comes if you do not clear the cache. Have a look on page 23 there are two options to fix it.
@Isotope
Yea I agree, some civis need balancing; the best ideas for me:
cut -5% Research from agriculture
Republic needs improvement (i would never choose it)
Caste System giving unlimited engineers or priests is quite heavy. However, if you cut it will reduce the infernals advantage (I always play them with caste system ...). I would promote more buildings that give +1 Engineer, like carpenters house, some kind of workshop etc. - if possible some building connected to cities size, so that big cities could have more
Yep Mercantilism is too strong, actually a good idea to improve gold bonus and make guilds more expansive - but this would mean that its most profitable without guilds? Lets reconsider. Somehow I would enjoy a diplomatic penalty towards races without - as you inhibit other's free trade.
Foreign Trade is not profitable in current state because of the -10% gold (at least in my last three games...), this 10% should be cut. A diplomatic bonus would be possible (have a look to the netherlands world wide trading contacts).
Usually I get a city with at least two religions, that 2 guilds + guild of the nine + bazaar of mammon, tax office, translate capital, from than on never less than 100% science
Well, we already discussed competing guilds what is somehow not romantic, maybe it is possible to prohibit founding them all in the same city.
@sputnik323 the open borders issue comes if you do not clear the cache. Have a look on page 23 there are two options to fix it.
@Isotope
Yea I agree, some civis need balancing; the best ideas for me:
cut -5% Research from agriculture
Republic needs improvement (i would never choose it)
Caste System giving unlimited engineers or priests is quite heavy. However, if you cut it will reduce the infernals advantage (I always play them with caste system ...). I would promote more buildings that give +1 Engineer, like carpenters house, some kind of workshop etc. - if possible some building connected to cities size, so that big cities could have more
Yep Mercantilism is too strong, actually a good idea to improve gold bonus and make guilds more expansive - but this would mean that its most profitable without guilds? Lets reconsider. Somehow I would enjoy a diplomatic penalty towards races without - as you inhibit other's free trade.
Foreign Trade is not profitable in current state because of the -10% gold (at least in my last three games...), this 10% should be cut. A diplomatic bonus would be possible (have a look to the netherlands world wide trading contacts).
Usually I get a city with at least two religions, that 2 guilds + guild of the nine + bazaar of mammon, tax office, translate capital, from than on never less than 100% science
Well, we already discussed competing guilds what is somehow not romantic, maybe it is possible to prohibit founding them all in the same city.
The first time trying this out. Filefront oh yeah! My download can do 10 times faster than they upload it to me.
Woot and now it dropped by half...
EDIT:
Finally finished downloading and installing. What do I get? Errors...
EDIT2:
I figured it out, I think. The default install directory for 0.20 (not the patch) was wrong. \mods\Fall Further 042 ... interesting. Patch e did correctly go to \mods\orbis 020 . The installer did correctly locate my Civ4 install though. Reinstalled the mod and commencing testing now.
Woot and now it dropped by half...
EDIT:
Finally finished downloading and installing. What do I get? Errors...
EDIT2:
I figured it out, I think. The default install directory for 0.20 (not the patch) was wrong. \mods\Fall Further 042 ... interesting. Patch e did correctly go to \mods\orbis 020 . The installer did correctly locate my Civ4 install though. Reinstalled the mod and commencing testing now.
chuckgilla138
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2008
- Messages
- 21
Installation: Just download and follow the instructions. It does not overwrite FfH directory, but you have to install FfH 2 (040) and patch it to o first.
Haven't patched since "c"...."q" appears to be the current patch...Will this mod work for me right now?
EDIT Well I'll give it a go.
Awesome
Gee whiz, it's like learning how to play the game all over again! Very very cool
yea, I like the bananas .
Why do you not just add fireball-improvement to the ranged attack promotions? (i.e. 1 range==mobility and 1 bombardment? or one strength bonus or colateral? mobility would be good as they cannot get a mage's range bonus) Would make sense.
If you give range it even would not make them stronger than a mage with II spell extensions; well, I would prefer at least one other promotion for variety.
It is just, even if you just do not choose them (and the AI neither) quite frequently you will want to upgrade your archers ...
And as the amurite bows now perfectly are using spells, are you planning to do so for the siege mages? Like a weak version of earthquake and meteors for colateral damage?
Well, siege mages need the cave of ancestors and only have channeling I. I hardly use them as firebows have channeling II and are even stronger in defence. You can upgrade siege mages to archmages but than you loose the benefits of barrage, accuracy etc. So why to do it? if this promotions improve an archmage I might like. However, I think they need some upgrade, maybe channeling II, too, benefits for spells from the promotions, or some special bombard spell (connected to a promotion it would be kept for the archmage!! Or just connecting the bombard ability to a promotion already would solve everything - an upgrade to the archmage would not waste the promotions and make it attractive! Maybe the best idea.)
.Why do you not just add fireball-improvement to the ranged attack promotions? (i.e. 1 range==mobility and 1 bombardment? or one strength bonus or colateral? mobility would be good as they cannot get a mage's range bonus) Would make sense.
If you give range it even would not make them stronger than a mage with II spell extensions; well, I would prefer at least one other promotion for variety.
It is just, even if you just do not choose them (and the AI neither) quite frequently you will want to upgrade your archers ...
And as the amurite bows now perfectly are using spells, are you planning to do so for the siege mages? Like a weak version of earthquake and meteors for colateral damage?
Well, siege mages need the cave of ancestors and only have channeling I. I hardly use them as firebows have channeling II and are even stronger in defence. You can upgrade siege mages to archmages but than you loose the benefits of barrage, accuracy etc. So why to do it? if this promotions improve an archmage
I might like. However, I think they need some upgrade, maybe channeling II, too, benefits for spells from the promotions, or some special bombard spell (connected to a promotion it would be kept for the archmage!! Or just connecting the bombard ability to a promotion already would solve everything - an upgrade to the archmage would not waste the promotions and make it attractive! Maybe the best idea.)cIV_khanh93
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2008
- Messages
- 528
I'm not sure about the specifics for the ranged attack promos, but why dont you just make the firebows start with them so its impossible to waste exp on something it cant do?
