Other branches of the military vs. Marines

[stratego]

Why does it seem like other branches of the military show hostility towards the Marines? Is it because they're jealous, or is it because they think that Marines might think too highly of themselves? My friends father served in the Navy, and back in his Navy days whenever the sailor wanted to use the bathroom (number 2) they say they're going to "Drop the Marine." And my other friends who are in the Army said that they call the Marines "b**.. of the military." Why is there such hostility towards the Marines?

 

[Esckey]

I think it's because they(The Marines) think too highly of themselfs. They always seem to have to believe that there the best fighting force in the entire armed forces and could everyone else on and win easily. Oh and there seems to be a big emphasis on the marines basic training and how hard it is, while from what I've heard it really isn't all that hard when compared to others.

 

[storealex]

The stereotype jarhead is violent and arrogant. Especially when drunk. Dunno how much this stereotype fits the truth.
Plus military braches always think low of their brothers in arms.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, when I was a dumb 18 year old, I decided to join the Army. Thank the Lord, I failed the physical because of a knee problem. So anyway, there I was sitting around at the recruiting office in my underwear with a bunch of strangers. The guy sitting next me, this big muscular no neck dude who looked like he jumped out of a Hitler Youth poster, told me that he was a Marine who was being transferred to the Presidential Guard Unit in D.C. (regulations demanded he take a physical before the trasnfer if I recall correctly). After speaking with him for a minimum of 5 minutes, it became apparent that he looked with contempt on all of us, because we werent Marines, and furthermore, we werent good enough to be Marines. At the time, I also thought he was insane, because you could see a crazy gleam in his eye. Now I realise that he wasnt insane, he was just a fanatic who had been completely brainwashed into the cult of the Marines. All branches of the military take raw recruits and attempt to brainwash them in order to reorder their reality and loyalties and turn them into unthinking order taking machines (just like most other cults do), but I think the Marines take it a few steps further. A person who goes through this process in the MArine Corp and becomes a successful Marine comes out a fanatical cult member, convinced of his and his fellow Marines superiority. Maybe thats why other branches of the military arent too crazy about them. In short, Marines can be spooky.

 

[King Alexander]

he was just a fanatic who had been completely brainwashed into the cult of the Marines.

All military branches do that to an extend.

Each branch makes sure that it continues a certain myth about itself, but mainly, it's about the physical training/conditions that each branch requires, according to the missions that branch executes. It's done really to raise the moral of the sodiers serving in the branch, and to "remind" them that one can't simply "complain" about the exercises/routines that they make, because the branch was created to do specific things.

Furthermore, people with low level of education, fall into the "trap" of that myth and become brainwashed, and the civilians also believe the myth, especially those with a low physical/endurance level as they see the(for example) marines as supermen.

So, because a guy in a tank or a pilot, don't do the same as in other branches, don't means that they're useless or inefficient, quite the opposite.

If one is used in hard/extreme physical/endurance training as a hobby, before he goes into a military branch, then the routine done there, is like a walk for him.

 

[Elgalad]

Who says the other branches of service are hostile to Marines!? Heck, let's ask them and see what they think, shall we?


United States Army (USA):

"Why in hell can't the Army do it if the Marines can. They are the same kind of men; why can't they be like Marines."
"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle."
Gen. John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, USA; 12 February 1918


"If I had one more division like this First Marine Division I could win this war."
General of the Armies Douglas McArthur in Korea

"We have two companies of Marines running rampant all over the northern half of this island, and three Army regiments pinned down in the southwestern corner, doing nothing. What the hell is going on?"
Gen. John W. Vessey Jr., USA, Chairman of the the Joint Chiefs of Staff
during the assault on Grenada, 1983


United States Navy (USN):

"By their victory, the 3rd, 4th and 5th Marine Divisions and other units of the Fifth Amphibious Corps have made an accounting to their country which only history will be able to value fully. Among the American who served on Iwo Island, uncommon valor was a common virtue."
Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, U.S. Navy

"The Marine Corps has just been called by the New York Times, 'The elite of this country.' I think it is the elite of the world."
Admiral William Halsey, U.S. Navy

"Marines I see as two breeds, Rottweilers or Dobermans, because Marines come in two varieties, big and mean, or skinny and mean. They're aggressive on the attack and tenacious on the defense. They've got really short hair and they always go for the throat."
- RAdm. "Jay' R. Stark, U.S. Navy


Civilians in Government Service:

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!" Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945.

"The raising of that flag on Suribachi means a Marine Corps for the next 500 years."
James Forrestal, Secretary Of The Navy

"They told (us) to open up the Embassy, or "we'll blow you away." And then they looked up and saw the Marines on the roof with these really big guns, and they said in Somali, "Igaralli ahow," which means "Excuse me, I didn't mean it, my mistake".
Karen Aquilar, in the U.S. Embassy; Mogadishu, Somalia, 1991



It's called Esprit de Corps:

In December of 1998, a Marine officer relayed a story told by Lt.Gen. Tommy R. Franks, who commands the 3rd U.S. Army and U.S. Army Forces Central Command:

"After all the briefs, the general ended the meeting relating a visit he made with the American ambassador to (Battalion Landing Team) 2/4 today, just hours after the accident," the officer wrote. "The general reminded the assembled officers that Marines live in holes and don't have a house to live in like 'heavy forces.' No tank or lots of tents to sleep in. They carry their 'house' on their back and they live in fighting holes. Although the Marines had just lost a buddy (in a humvee accident), their spirit was 'uplifting'.

"He said a question by the ambassador to a Marine private drove the point home. The ambassador asked a private sitting in his hole, 'how is it here in the hole?' The private answered, 'Kind of like the beach without water.' The ambassador then asked, 'If you could get something, what would you like to have?'

"Lt. Gen. Franks related most of us would have answered, 'a hot meal', 'a cot', 'a shower,' but this Marine private said, 'I could use some more ammunition.'




-Elgalad

 

[Jawz II]

Elgalad you gotta stop that dude, im getting all "excited" over here
just like god i guess...

 

[Elgalad]

God you say?

Hmm, I forgot to ask His opinion. But that's okay, Gunny Hartman knows..

"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see. He plays His games, we play ours. To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls. God was here before the Marine Corps, so you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the corps."
-GySgt Hartman (R Lee Ermey from the movie Full Metal Jacket, 1987)




-Elgalad

 

[joacqin]

As Dumb Pothead said, a brainwashing cult who worships death and violence. But heck, you have to brainwash your soldiers, how else do you expect them to run across that open field right into an ambush they know are there to take a spot of dirt in a far away country? All branches of military around the world and all throughout history does the same, the marines just get more attention nowadays as they atleast to me seem to be the most used unit in a country which dominates the world culturally and which is among the most aggressive ones in the world.

 

[privatehudson]

Royal Marines are better

It's partly the arrogance of the Marines and partly just inter-service rivalry. Generally speaking, the army, navy and airforce don't like eachother much either

Perhaps in the states it has something to do with the fact that the marines is almost like it's own private armed forces in that they have their own airforce and so on.

 

[Norlamand]

I'd agree with Ecksey. The marines are good at what they do, but they are brainwashed into thinking that they are good at everything. That is, unfortunately for them, not the case. This spring in Iraq when the Army handed over the region around Falluhja to the marines there were a series of statements by the marine brass that they would handle things differently. That the Army had been too heavyhanded and the marines would do a better job of controlling the populace. Well, short story, the marines refused to take the advice and experience of the leaving army units and, as a consequence, had their asses handed to them for the first month. Needless casualties because "they knew better".
They have now adopted the army's tactics and techniques.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I've never fully understood why they need a separate Marine service. Especially since it seems they're fielded as normal infantry more commonly than used for anything actually maritime.

 

[Jawz II]

God you say?

Hmm, I forgot to ask His opinion. But that's okay, Gunny Hartman knows..

"God has a hard on for Marines, because we kill everything we see. He plays His games, we play ours. To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls. God was here before the Marine Corps, so you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the corps."
-GySgt Hartman (R Lee Ermey from the movie Full Metal Jacket, 1987)




-Elgalad

sgt hartman = god!

were mother greens killing machines and so on..

 

[Plotinus]

The main problem with Marines is that they cost just as much as a Modern Armor but aren't as powerful. The ability to perform amphibious attacks is generally not enormously useful in the late game, unless you make them into an army - and yet an army made of Marines and Berzerks combined is not amphibious! Pure insanity.

The only American marine I ever knew was unimaginably full of himself, loud, distressingly right-wing, and pretty thick. Naturally I don't assume that this applies to all of them. Well, I hope not.

 

[Jawz II]

i think actually the hardest meanest fighting force in the world most likely comes from a relatively poor country, like russia or china, since they have less rules and pc regulations, heck theyve (china) had people die from exhaustion in their olympic training camps!

now imagine their special forces selection and training programs!

and dont get me started on the way russian troops are treated...

they have less fire power, but bigger numbers and the average individual soldier, is prolly tougher or at least alot more mean and psychotic!

 

[privatehudson]

sgt hartman = god!

In that case, Curt is right, god is dead!

 

[IglooDame]

The "brainwashing" some of you refer to is, I'm told by those that should know, a necessity in combat if you expect to win.

There is also intraservice rivalry - a Navy surface ship sailor refers to submariners as "bubbleheads" and they to him as a "skimmer". They both give wingwipers a hard time.

Don't let it confuse you, it is like sniping at other cliques in high school but all the cliques come together when a rival high school shows up (or at any rate, that's the way it worked at my high school). And then, after one of you wins the county championship, the other roots for them instead of the team from the other side of the state.

As to the central question, marines once upon a time were an all-volunteer force (at least in the UK), where sailors were conscripted/shanghaied, and the marines were expected to be the always-disciplined force that the ship's captain could rely upon over and above the sailors. Nowadays they have more stringent entrance requirements (physically, anyway), tougher boot camp (or so I've heard), a much higher percentage of combat personnel than any other service, and a greater mobility and reaction time than most Army units besides the 82nd and 101st airborne units. I think it is understandable if they think very highly of themselves and don't really care if that annoys other people.

 

[Illustrious]

The "brainwashing" some of you refer to is, I'm told by those that should know, a necessity in combat if you expect to win.

I am told that also, and tend to agree.

There is also intraservice rivalry - a Navy surface ship sailor refers to submariners as "bubbleheads" and they to him as a "skimmer". They both give wingwipers a hard time.

Oh yes. In the Royal Navy, submariners tend to refer to surface sailors as "targets"...

Don't let it confuse you, it is like sniping at other cliques in high school but all the cliques come together when a rival high school shows up (or at any rate, that's the way it worked at my high school). And then, after one of you wins the county championship, the other roots for them instead of the team from the other side of the state.

Very true. Think Dunkirk: the Royal Navy worked, fought and bled round the clock for a week to lift the "pongos" off the beach. Two weeks either side, and they were telling bad jokes at the army's expense.

As to the central question, marines once upon a time were an all-volunteer force (at least in the UK), where sailors were conscripted/shanghaied, and the marines were expected to be the always-disciplined force that the ship's captain could rely upon over and above the sailors. Nowadays they have more stringent entrance requirements (physically, anyway), tougher boot camp (or so I've heard), a much higher percentage of combat personnel than any other service, and a greater mobility and reaction time than most Army units besides the 82nd and 101st airborne units. I think it is understandable if they think very highly of themselves and don't really care if that annoys other people.

Yep. The Royal Marines were the only part of the Navy establishment entirely untainted by mutiny, even at Spithead and the Nore, and they have battle honours going back beyond most Army units. Read the records, diaries and annals of the time and you will see that "Marine" has long been a synonym for loyalty, steadfastness and doing one's duty. Tradition like that takes some losing, and it can look like arrogance.

 

[bobgote]

they aren't even used as marines, they're just light infantry.

they are good cannon fodder i suppose, but beyond that i just don't really get it. as to why they are disliked, i think that as a whole, the corps has expanded far out of proportion and is doing work that it wasn't originally intended for. in addition, they encroach upon everyone else's patch in the process of trying to be the best at everything. in the end, i'd say they're more likely to become jack of all trades, master of none. which is not really what you'd want from your marines.

 

[downwithgravity]

my uncle's a marine, and he's kinda...thick. my dad was in the army and he tends to look unfavorably on all the other services, but just in a friendly rivalry kind of way.

no matter what you think about the Marines, the Gunny will always be the man