Other trait combos for civ leaders

[Gregonar]

I'm pretty sure that in North America, women run the show but men take the credit. Probably true for much of history.

But more on topic, Agg and Pro are both underrated....Agg is killer in warfare throughout the game and Pro is even better than Agg once you can get longbows/crossbows because of the grotesque advantage you would have in stack crashing--with first strikes and collateral protection.

Of course, having both is overkill, as you can't really maximize the effect of both promotion trees at the same time. So yes, Toku is easily the worst leader. For other leaders with agg or pro combos, it's really a matter of adapting to the playing style. Shaka, Ragnar and Kubla are good agg leaders who are easy to use. Monty and Alexander are okay too, but trickier.

For the pro leaders--did you know that Charlemagne gets 3-4 times the regular great general rate?--high xp from drill promoted units, doubled by the imp. trait. Of course, it's hard to know what to do with 10 great generals in a game, but getting the first 3 after only 40 battles is ridiculous. Also, if you haven't played a chuk-no-ku romp with Qin (oracle for metal casting, then GE to bulb machinery), you're missing out. I just played an mp game where my stack of chuks took out 3 incoming enemy stacks of crossbow/mace/catapults. I lost 5 and killed about 40 units... pretty rare thing in an mp game. Then the board leader came in my base with about 50 praets/10pults...I lost 2 chuks attacking that stack. I get better odds in later battles with Pro because the units promote so quickly. Drill IV units are nasty, especially if they already have some inherent first strikes. Both guys rage quit after.

Definitely had games where I wish I had drill IV infantries in my attacking stack of 80 to minimize damage from bombers...

So for pro leaders, I would use Mao/Gilgamesh for help with the start, Qin for oracle race, Charlemagne for lots of GGs, Churchill for quicker Drill IV units, Wan Kon as an all rounder. Sitting Bull is really difficult because he has too many odd specials to try to use at the same time (pro, phil, dog soldiers, totems) Protective is a trickier trait to exploit, but it can do all sorts of surprising and pleasing things. Try it out.

 

[ElmoEmo]

I'm pretty sure that in North America, women run the show but men take the credit. Probably true for much of history.

odd. 90% of the departments and teams I know that are run by women are poorly managed.

Anyway, I never said women didn't contribute anything. They did, just not as much and as good as men.

Also, one thing I don't get about our society is that mysogynists like me rarely exists and we know there are a lot of misandrists. But somehow, the former is more looked down upon. Heck, ms word doesn't even know what misandry is.

 

[rah]

one thing I don't get about our society is that mysogynists like me rarely exists

They were quite numerous just a few decades back and there are quite a few still but now they're much smarter and have learned how negatively others view them so they keep those opinions to themselves. Well, I guess most of them are smarter these days.

 

[ElmoEmo]

I find it unfair that misandrists can do anything they want while we mysogynists are hated whenever we say mysogynistic words. I've also noticed that and a lot of people keep telling me to keep my opinions to myself. These people are feminists by the way. So I adopted misandrists' way of thinking, if you don't like what I say, it's your problem. Yeah, they're much more accepted in society but I certainly won't adjust to unfair bias.

Moderator Action: Please come back on topic or this thread will be closed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Manco Capac]

PLEASE, Leif, don't kill my post. I won't derail further. It's a fact for me.

Well, I can't sense anything Civ4 in this thread anymore. And you seem pretty focused on that off-topic part on top of it. Gregonar's post has about 5% about the OT subject and you still took that part while ignoring the core of this thread he was willing to share.

I'm really surprised you don't have a clue why misandry is accepted while misogyny is looked down. It boils down to the political correctness. There are likely far more women-haters than you may think, but as Rah said, it's a hidden trend. I have been surfing on many sites and have seen some with strong hatred towards against women and others against the other gender.
To put that aside, the political correctness comes from the very fact women suffered through hundreds of generations the unfairness established by the partriarcal society. Political correctness is either because one wants to tiptoe the relationship with a group of people or simply trying to make up with a group of people who were victims. Holocaust jews were victim and most (publically that is) won't jest at this like it was nothing. Same for women.

And heck don't put everything in the same pool. If you are enraged against feminists (because that word seems to jump often), consider at least they are different degrees of feminism. Just like they were probably different degrees of discrimination against black people.
Those, who you deeply abhor, seem to belong to the ******** group, as some internet people call them. You see, both men and women are the same opportunistic $hit. When we get a semblance of justice, we want more. This is human nature. And this is nothing unexpected there are probably groups of women who abuse and go far beyond the moderate feminist. Like make reversing the machine and put the men as inferior.

The problem I have with your views is men STILL have the upper hand in our societies. It's still easy time for them. And still the society looks down women!
Want an example of the latter? Well, wear some skirt, get some ponytails, womanize yourself both in appearances and behaviours. Oops, everyone is making fun of you. No surprise since women are considered inferiors by those patriarcal jerks. Indeed, women customs are looked down and inferiorized.

I'm pretty sure you have a nice and comfortable life right now (unless you were hurt by some woman and hating a group of people because of a single example of a dipsh-t is the worst attitude ever or argument); just adopt the misanthrope attitude. At least, this has justification compared hating a group based on gender.

At last, isn't there better to do or discuss of a revoluted subject? Man!, there are bigger problems out there than the whimsical tensions between women and men (mostly in the sense "they hurt my ego"). Sheesh, the first world people sure desire to linger on bagatelles. It's like listening some CEO whinning he is not making enough profits.


BTW, I'm not even angry lol.

This is my last reply. Feel free to reply but after (preferably in PM format), stick to the thread title. Or make some post in the TAVERN subforum. Because that is the real place for such discussion. And I can assure you people there are eager to quibble with you on this.

PLEASE, Leif, don't kill my post. I won't derail further. It's a fact for me.

 

[Patchface]

Guys, drinking + Internet don't mix. This sh-t stays on here forever.

 

[Packers5280]

Another trait combo for a leader is Charlemagne with creative and imperialistic. I don't know why he's protective. In history, he was the aggressor in his fights. Save the Pope? I'll attack the lombards' exposed back.

As for creative, under his rule, a new style of writing and letters was developed. Monks scribbled fast, so the writings were basically unreadable. Charlemagne developed a slower style. Using that style, greek and roman literature were re-written. Without it, class literature may not exist today. He collected the writings into a library in Aachen. He enjoyed learning and the arts. He wanted his children to go to school and he gave his sons power in his kingdom. He's much more creative than protective.

 

[Manco Capac]

I think the traits combo are simply random. The devs probably took a small part of one's personality history and make the whole caracterization of the game leader based of an off-topic moment of the historical personality. Otherwise, what would explain the evolution of traits of certain leaders over the versions of Civ4. Originally HC was AGG/FIN and now he's IND/FIN. Probably he was getting AGG because his campaigns extended the Tawantinsuyu (how the Incas called their empire). And now some dev decided to focus on his works in the architectural department and now he's IND.

 

[ElmoEmo]

PLEASE, Leif, don't kill my post. I won't derail further. It's a fact for me.

Well, I can't sense anything Civ4 in this thread anymore. And you seem pretty focused on that off-topic part on top of it. Gregonar's post has about 5% about the OT subject and you still took that part while ignoring the core of this thread he was willing to share.

I'm really surprised you don't have a clue why misandry is accepted while misogyny is looked down. It boils down to the political correctness. There are likely far more women-haters than you may think, but as Rah said, it's a hidden trend. I have been surfing on many sites and have seen some with strong hatred towards against women and others against the other gender.
To put that aside, the political correctness comes from the very fact women suffered through hundreds of generations the unfairness established by the partriarcal society. Political correctness is either because one wants to tiptoe the relationship with a group of people or simply trying to make up with a group of people who were victims. Holocaust jews were victim and most (publically that is) won't jest at this like it was nothing. Same for women.

And heck don't put everything in the same pool. If you are enraged against feminists (because that word seems to jump often), consider at least they are different degrees of feminism. Just like they were probably different degrees of discrimination against black people.
Those, who you deeply abhor, seem to belong to the ******** group, as some internet people call them. You see, both men and women are the same opportunistic $hit. When we get a semblance of justice, we want more. This is human nature. And this is nothing unexpected there are probably groups of women who abuse and go far beyond the moderate feminist. Like make reversing the machine and put the men as inferior.

The problem I have with your views is men STILL have the upper hand in our societies. It's still easy time for them. And still the society looks down women!
Want an example of the latter? Well, wear some skirt, get some ponytails, womanize yourself both in appearances and behaviours. Oops, everyone is making fun of you. No surprise since women are considered inferiors by those patriarcal jerks. Indeed, women customs are looked down and inferiorized.

I'm pretty sure you have a nice and comfortable life right now (unless you were hurt by some woman and hating a group of people because of a single example of a dipsh-t is the worst attitude ever or argument); just adopt the misanthrope attitude. At least, this has justification compared hating a group based on gender.

At last, isn't there better to do or discuss of a revoluted subject? Man!, there are bigger problems out there than the whimsical tensions between women and men (mostly in the sense "they hurt my ego"). Sheesh, the first world people sure desire to linger on bagatelles. It's like listening some CEO whinning he is not making enough profits.


BTW, I'm not even angry lol.

This is my last reply. Feel free to reply but after (preferably in PM format), stick to the thread title. Or make some post in the TAVERN subforum. Because that is the real place for such discussion. And I can assure you people there are eager to quibble with you on this.

PLEASE, Leif, don't kill my post. I won't derail further. It's a fact for me.

ok, took your advise and if you want to continue this discussion, just visit:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12664901#post12664901

Anyway, here are the correct trait combos of some leaders:

Pacal - Industrious & Protective - kind of a downgrade from his original trait but this is more historically accurate.
Elizabeth - must be protective (because of Spanish Armada and so someone else will have the Phi/Fin combo)
Pericles - Phi/Ind - oh yeah, overpowering a Greek leader. He was more industrious than creative.
Frederick - Phi/Cre - Creative defines Frederick.
Suleiman - Phi/Org - ugh, Phi/Imp is atrocious. Phi/Org is better for you.

and Saladin has the worst possible trait combo. I've been trying to prove that he's financial so that he'll have Phi/Fin but I can't. Sigh.

 

[VSarius]

If anything, Saladin could fit CHA/SPI, but no way in hell was he FIN.
QSH's traits would need to be changed if Pacal was IND/PRO, and what exactly was he PRO from? IND/FIN probably makes more sense, Huayna becoming FIN/EXP since arguably his expansion of the Incan empire fits better. As for the whole off-topic conversation, it's hilariously ******** from multiple angles.

 

[ElmoEmo]

If anything, Saladin could fit CHA/SPI, but no way in hell was he FIN.
QSH's traits would need to be changed if Pacal was IND/PRO, and what exactly was he PRO from? IND/FIN probably makes more sense, Huayna becoming FIN/EXP since arguably his expansion of the Incan empire fits better. As for the whole off-topic conversation, it's hilariously ******** from multiple angles.

in the early part of his reign, there were a series of raids, so, to protect Lakamha, he had put an end to it by attacking those raiders.
And how is Pacal financial?

 

[Drakarska]

in the early part of his reign, there were a series of raids, so, to protect Lakamha, he had put an end to it by attacking those raiders.
And how is Pacal financial?

your kidding right? Mayans had traders throughout central and south America. Additionally, Chontal Mayans traded extensively throughout the Caribbean. I think that qualifies them as FIN.

 

[ElmoEmo]

yeah, the Mayans but it didn't specifically say Pacal. What if Pacal was an exception to the rule?

 

[Drakarska]

Pacal was responsible for the canals and trail improvements leading up to Ambergris Caye, which was the main trade center for the Mayans. Additionally he was responsible for the main trade treaties that included the Chetumal Bay Mayans as the primary Trade House for the royal court. He also enforced a trade treaty between The Trade Houses that included the Chonatal Mayans use of trading in the Caribbean.
Additionally, both Pacal and his son K'inich Chan B'alam II are responsible for the Temple of the Cross, Temple of the Foliated Cross, and Temple of the Sun as well as other numerous works in order to refute allegations that they weren't of royal lineage. Pacal himself commissioned the Temple of Olvidado and the Temple of the Count in the Royal Palace, which was mainly funded by his trade agreements.
I suppose in civ terms he could be considered CRE/FIN instead of what he is actually portrayed as now.

 

[ElmoEmo]

oh ok.
Yeah I guess he can be Fin/Cre. Great, now I have someone to assign Phi/Fin to.

Pacal = Fin/Cre
Willem = Phi/Fin
Liz = Org/Pro

 

[noto2]

Toku is not the worst leader. I'd much rather play him than Saladin. He can get pottery with the first tech, work a couple of early cottages. He's an amazing fighter at any point in the game. When samurai come online there are few who can match him, his medieval army is pretty much unstoppable.. and then there's the gunpowder age. Wow, just wow. Toku's drafted rifles will obliterate the normally produced rifles of anyone else. Even redcoats don't stand a chance.

I find it odd that Augustus is IND and not a single Greek leader is.

I have no problem playing as a woman leader in this game... I really don't see what bothers OP about it. There's plenty of bullshizzle to deal with in the real world, regarding sex and gender, when I play a video game I'd rather not try to drag more of that into my recreational time....

 

[Fippy]

Toku does not have the best armies, Cha leaders do..
what will agg and pro do for your mounted or siege units?
Why would you attack with Rifles if you could use Cavalry, and so on?

 

[The Diocletian]

Is Churchill PRO/CHA? If not, he should be.

 

[noto2]

Fippy I never said Toku has the best armies but his are definitely in the upper tier. Going off topic - everyone says CHA is better than AGG... and I agree that in most cases it is, but don't forget that AGG gives you that edge in the early game, when you often need it the most. Your first war is your most important war, and in that first war CHA does very little for you.
Anyway, back on topic, I was simply stating Toku is not the worst leader. I'd rather have him than Saladin. I also find him somewhat fun to play, and given the fun factor I'd rather play as him than many of the game's bland leaders.

 

[Fippy]

Fair enuf, i find that strange thou
No love for Spi huh? Very solid trait imo.