Outside the box. Shred the box.

[iggymnrr]

Perhaps you don't really need gold/gems for early commerce, because research is so cheap on Settler.

Correct. The big early problem is paying real estate costs. Hence Asoka for cheap courthouses. A small highlands is the first smallish map where the player can reasonably expect both currency and metal casting from huts. Although I've been playing them without either writing or metal casting. (Strategy Oracles metal casting.) At standard speed, and standard size map, a non-financial civ can reach a speed of 1 tech per turn (3 religious wonder economy) around 0 AD and be in, or close to, state property. At that rate corps won't matter. Nearly the whole spaceship can be chopped. Fast workers anybody? Asoka is lethal.

Currently I'm testing a standard sized map. With an early engineer as part of the strategy, I am wondering about Oracling divine right and engineering either the AP or Spiral Minaret. Currently I've used that engineer for the Ironworks and a 2nd one for Mining Inc. If state property is used the National Park is a consideration.

 

[iggymnrr]

Tested out a standard sized highlands with Asoka on settler marathon. Game can be projected out to a 380 AD space win. That's 10 turns slower than the record. Start was very slow. Theology came around 1650ish instead of 2250ish. Expansion was also 30 turns slower. Corps may not be best as map size increases. Still a good outcome. Non-financial and no academy. Acceleration was phenomenal. Oracled Divine Right. The wonder there was better than the shrine boost. I may move up to a large map to see what can be done.

State property or corporations? Perhaps neither. I'm beginning to remember why I went with EnviroMills on a huge map. Environmentalism with Cereal Mills. It's not clear which plan to go with on large. With huts a religious economy might produce a tech path of 5 straight religions followed by oracling a 6th.

 

[iggymnrr]

I had a curious game with Asoka on a large settler map. 80 AD space win which is 2 turns off the record. It would have been 1 turn but the last golden age ended as a space part completed shorting me by 6 hammers. UI glitch. But the strategy was more interesting. Biology/state property (libbed) -> factories -> Mining Inc. -> Standard Ethanol -> environmentalism. Mining Inc. was a bit weak. The case for ethanol lies in it being 17 turns from Mining Inc. compared to 14-15 turns for Cereal Mills, factories not counting. ~55 science for Standard Ethanol is very good per city and also goes through multipliers. Ending pace, pre-launch, was brisk. ~15k BPT compared to ~11k from previous games. Entire ship was pre-chopped with only one turn left after Apollo completed to finish teching. Free markets was never used. 43 cities. 212 workers. Game submitted. Clearly another attempt should be in order.

 

[iggymnrr]

Large settler map is suiting me fine. 40 AD space win with Asoka. This beats the Darius record of 60 AD. Clearly there is something better. Another game with enviro-methanolism. Last 5 turns before launch were not in a golden age and BPT was 15k+. That's 1-turning the last expensive techs in a non-golden age. Wow! Late time line looks suspicious:

530 BC: Mining Inc.
460 BC: Standard Methanol
370 BC: Wall Street
270 BC: Apollo
260 BC: Launch

Wall Street may not be necessary. Even running environmentalism. Time line from Rocketry to end of teching was exactly on time to finish Apollo Program. 261 workers had enough time to have the spaceship pre-chopped and ready to 1-turn production. 50 cities. Std Methanol was 66 BPT so with library + lab/university that's an extra 5k BPT. At times it felt like I was trying to not break the record. Like building Oxford and Wall street in same city or forgetting about GPs.

2000 BC: Spiral Minaret. Trade routes on settler are 1 gold per turn. Cheap temples are like great lighthouses. Currency can wait. Courthouses cannot. Game submitted. I may have to try another game before the year is out.

 

[Anysense]

You could use some of the map scripts that has islands. Early GLH with 4 island cities is a huge boost.

 

[iggymnrr]

You could use some of the map scripts that has islands. Early GLH with 4 island cities is a huge boost.

I just tested this and trade route value increased by +1 gold. Trade routes are not very good on settler. This could be an option on a huge map but there both Darius and Gandhi solved problems by launching early golden ages. 2000 BC for Darius. Also whipping may not be good at this point either. Whipping away a coin has the same impact as removing a trade route.

However I did change to a map with seafood. +3 health from that is like early genetics. The national park was also scrapped in favor of Moai. With luck a prophet can come from Stonehenge + Moai since the Oracle will probably be used for divine right or maybe civil service. Marble is also a consideration.

 

[iggymnrr]

Have programs become chop-able now? I don't recall Apollo being hurried by this means. Or other program post launch. I'm sure I've seen this recently. I have a game where I discovered I didn't need a golden age to finish the tech tree at a tech per turn clip. The problem is the Apollo build can't match this with production speed. The last golden age ended with discovery of Standard Methanol. BPT then was 4,2k and has doubled in the 7-8 turns since and will double again shortly. I'll probably try another game since this one will beat prior record by only 2 turns, or 1, but that would necessitate chopping Apollo.

 

[Anysense]

I'm quite sure that chops apply to anything. It's pop/gold rushing that works only with normal buildings and wonders. That is, you can't hurry Apollo, Internet, spaceship parts and, may be, a few other things. There are also restrictions on the use of Great Engineer.

 

[iggymnrr]

Wha ... How did I not notice this before? The ending should run:

Turn 1 - Begin Apollo.
Turn 2 - Done. Begin building spaceship.
Turn 3 - Done. Launch.

 

[iggymnrr]

Submitted a BC space win for a large settler map. Is this the first for the map size? It was also with Asoka, non-financial. Not sure if both start and end files got submitted. I may do a brief writeup.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

It's been accepted and yes it's the first Settler BC Space Colony at Large, a write up would be great.

 

[iggymnrr]

I'm considering Pericles on a huge chieftain map. If I remember right on huge settler maps Darius went for a shrine while Gandhi bulbed Divine Right. Both Oracle'd Civil Service. There doesn't seem to be a reason for Pericles not to bulb Education. 35-40 cottages could do very well with cheap science modifiers not to mention GP production. My recent Asoka game had like 5 cottages. Quite a change.

 

[iggymnrr]

Experimenting with Pericles on a huge chieftain map. A bulbing strategy seems to make an academy impossible. GPs do come out extremely fast but I can count uses for 13 of them without finding room for an academy and that doesn't include GPs in the tech tree. Civic switches after ~2000 BC are more time consuming. Feels like a person should play for calendar/metal casting from exploration. Cottages with cheap universities and an early Oxford are nice but machinery needs to come fairly early. The ground needs to be littered with coins from water and wind mills sooner.

 

[iggymnrr]

Okay. So the best idea for Pericles on a huge chieftain looks to be: bulb machinery, tech feudalism and oracle guilds. This could all be done by 2500 BC or better. The only question would be how much pain banking would cause. Probably not much. Then code of laws could easily mean caste + mercantilism for the expansion phase of 30+ cities. (Pyramids.) Maybe 50+ cities by 1750 BC? 1600 BC? Somewhere in my head there is a plan for running 3 corporations. (Land based map with Sushi, Creative Constructions and Aluminum Co.) Metal casting from exploration does seem mandatory with calendar being useful.

 

[iggymnrr]

So I have a decent game going and the power went out ~turn 101. Is this crash exception? Game saves every turn so the game can be reloaded and a save made approximately at the point where things happened. Alternatively, the save at end of turn will be automatic. Would that work or not?

 

[Ozbenno]

If you submit the game based on this policy, we will have a look.

 

[boogaboo]

Submitted a BC space win for a large settler map. Is this the first for the map size? It was also with Asoka, non-financial. Not sure if both start and end files got submitted. I may do a brief writeup.

That's an accomplishment.
Would be nice if you can explain your method of catching goody huts at the start, it seems to be one of your best algorithms

Oh, and losing a game to power outages is a bummer.
I try not to play on rainy days... I don't want to factor actual power-outages while I play

 

[iggymnrr]

If you submit the game based on this policy, we will have a look.

Thanks. It may be a moot point as the game is now a training game to perfect strategy. Though the finish looks like it will be a very good one for a non-financial civ on chieftain level. (Anywhere from 50 AD to 150 AD. I can't judge the speed ATM.)

 

[iggymnrr]

That's an accomplishment.
Would be nice if you can explain your method of catching goody huts at the start, it seems to be one of your best algorithms

Oh, and losing a game to power outages is a bummer.
I try not to play on rainy days... I don't want to factor actual power-outages while I play

The method is quite simple in concept. Don't lose exploration momentum. Implementation is another matter. Generally aim to found the capitol by turn 8-12. On the other hand my latest attempt blatantly violated this rule. Two cities were founded by ~turn 5. Hot start location. Really hot. (Capitol had 2 corn and pigs while 2nd city had pigs and corn settled atop brown hilly stone on same river as capitol. Pyramids were done around 2490 BC. Machinery bulbed via GE at 2200 BC. If I don't try with that start ...)

So I improvised by having the capitol build two scouts ASAP and 2nd city built 1 warrior and 2 more scouts ASAP. (There may have been a settler/worker or two available to continue scouting.) This was a huge chieftain and 5 AIs disappeared by turn 75 which helped monopolize huts. Yes 5! With Pericles who starts with a scout!

It seems I can get a couple of decent starts in a 3-4 hour session before going to work. There's a certain knack for exhausting maps quickly and getting a map to play for an hour or so.

Anyways I aiming for a non-financial chieftain BC space win now. Me thinks early rocketry and the Aluminum corp may be enough. Huge highlands. Aluminum corp resources provides 1.5 beakers each while Mining Inc. provides .5 hammers per resource. Not sure what civ (without fast workers) is best. Zara comes to mind. But Pericles brings cheap libraries/universities to make 18 total beakers into 27 per city. Compared to Standard Ethanol the Aluminum corp effectively operates 2-3 times longer. Of course sushi is always there for a 2nd corporation if that is desirable. (Aluminum requires Physics and Steam Power at a time while Communism is useful for Gspy/state property pit stop. So close to sushi.)

 

[boogaboo]

Thanks
I almost never produce scouts, but that's something to think about if I'm ever moving out of duel..