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Outside the box. Shred the box.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by iggymnrr, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Correct. The big early problem is paying real estate costs. Hence Asoka for cheap courthouses. A small highlands is the first smallish map where the player can reasonably expect both currency and metal casting from huts. Although I've been playing them without either writing or metal casting. (Strategy Oracles metal casting.) At standard speed, and standard size map, a non-financial civ can reach a speed of 1 tech per turn (3 religious wonder economy) around 0 AD and be in, or close to, state property. At that rate corps won't matter. Nearly the whole spaceship can be chopped. Fast workers anybody? Asoka is lethal.

    Currently I'm testing a standard sized map. With an early engineer as part of the strategy, I am wondering about Oracling divine right and engineering either the AP or Spiral Minaret. Currently I've used that engineer for the Ironworks and a 2nd one for Mining Inc. If state property is used the National Park is a consideration.
     
  2. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Tested out a standard sized highlands with Asoka on settler marathon. Game can be projected out to a 380 AD space win. That's 10 turns slower than the record. Start was very slow. Theology came around 1650ish instead of 2250ish. Expansion was also 30 turns slower. Corps may not be best as map size increases. Still a good outcome. Non-financial and no academy. Acceleration was phenomenal. Oracled Divine Right. The wonder there was better than the shrine boost. I may move up to a large map to see what can be done.

    State property or corporations? Perhaps neither. I'm beginning to remember why I went with EnviroMills on a huge map. Environmentalism with Cereal Mills. It's not clear which plan to go with on large. With huts a religious economy might produce a tech path of 5 straight religions followed by oracling a 6th.
     
  3. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    I had a curious game with Asoka on a large settler map. 80 AD space win which is 2 turns off the record. It would have been 1 turn but the last golden age ended as a space part completed shorting me by 6 hammers. UI glitch. But the strategy was more interesting. Biology/state property (libbed) -> factories -> Mining Inc. -> Standard Ethanol -> environmentalism. Mining Inc. was a bit weak. The case for ethanol lies in it being 17 turns from Mining Inc. compared to 14-15 turns for Cereal Mills, factories not counting. ~55 science for Standard Ethanol is very good per city and also goes through multipliers. Ending pace, pre-launch, was brisk. ~15k BPT compared to ~11k from previous games. Entire ship was pre-chopped with only one turn left after Apollo completed to finish teching. Free markets was never used. 43 cities. 212 workers. Game submitted. Clearly another attempt should be in order.
     
  4. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Large settler map is suiting me fine. 40 AD space win with Asoka. This beats the Darius record of 60 AD. Clearly there is something better. Another game with enviro-methanolism. Last 5 turns before launch were not in a golden age and BPT was 15k+. That's 1-turning the last expensive techs in a non-golden age. Wow! Late time line looks suspicious:

    530 BC: Mining Inc.
    460 BC: Standard Methanol
    370 BC: Wall Street
    270 BC: Apollo
    260 BC: Launch

    Wall Street may not be necessary. Even running environmentalism. Time line from Rocketry to end of teching was exactly on time to finish Apollo Program. 261 workers had enough time to have the spaceship pre-chopped and ready to 1-turn production. 50 cities. Std Methanol was 66 BPT so with library + lab/university that's an extra 5k BPT. At times it felt like I was trying to not break the record. Like building Oxford and Wall street in same city or forgetting about GPs.

    2000 BC: Spiral Minaret. Trade routes on settler are 1 gold per turn. Cheap temples are like great lighthouses. Currency can wait. Courthouses cannot. Game submitted. I may have to try another game before the year is out.
     
    Noble Zarkon likes this.
  5. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    You could use some of the map scripts that has islands. Early GLH with 4 island cities is a huge boost.
     
  6. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    I just tested this and trade route value increased by +1 gold. Trade routes are not very good on settler. This could be an option on a huge map but there both Darius and Gandhi solved problems by launching early golden ages. 2000 BC for Darius. Also whipping may not be good at this point either. Whipping away a coin has the same impact as removing a trade route.

    However I did change to a map with seafood. +3 health from that is like early genetics. The national park was also scrapped in favor of Moai. With luck a prophet can come from Stonehenge + Moai since the Oracle will probably be used for divine right or maybe civil service. Marble is also a consideration.
     
  7. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Have programs become chop-able now? I don't recall Apollo being hurried by this means. Or other program post launch. I'm sure I've seen this recently. I have a game where I discovered I didn't need a golden age to finish the tech tree at a tech per turn clip. The problem is the Apollo build can't match this with production speed. The last golden age ended with discovery of Standard Methanol. BPT then was 4,2k and has doubled in the 7-8 turns since and will double again shortly. I'll probably try another game since this one will beat prior record by only 2 turns, or 1, but that would necessitate chopping Apollo.
     
  8. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    I'm quite sure that chops apply to anything. It's pop/gold rushing that works only with normal buildings and wonders. That is, you can't hurry Apollo, Internet, spaceship parts and, may be, a few other things. There are also restrictions on the use of Great Engineer.
     
  9. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    Wha ... How did I not notice this before? The ending should run:

    Turn 1 - Begin Apollo.
    Turn 2 - Done. Begin building spaceship.
    Turn 3 - Done. Launch.
     

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