1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Outside the box. Shred the box.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by iggymnrr, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    This is a new one. I'm about to call my game with Pericles. But will play a few more turns. I tried a novel 3 corporation game. Sushi -> Aluminum Co. -> Creative Con. Good news: 3-11k scientists on hand for the finish with an engineer and forests to crank the Hoover dam. Bad news: non-organized factories are slow. It's even money whether the Hoover or the capitol's factory finishes first. Despite golden ages having ended, tech pace is getting faster to the point where a person has to consider launching without building factories. Or buy them. Fortunately I'm in rush buy. Unfortunately I didn't plan for a buy on that scale. But factories aren't needed in most cities since they already have library + university + Aluminum Co. That's [(270+600)/2 * 18 ... + a crapton of windmills with environmentalism]

    Much to consider before another game. GP 6000 will arrive post-launch. 200 AD projected finish.

    Wait. Launch the ship with no factories?
     
  2. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    I just launched Pericles ship in 20 AD. This could be the fastest space game for Pericles. I'll submit on the morrow when ship is done travelling. I did some experimenting with the space elevator while waiting for factories to finish. It seems that if a person wants to do a factory free space game that the engineer in Fusion is there for a reason. Like hurry the elevator. I think factories in core cities were done by launch time. Maybe not.

    Also the difference between Aluminum Co. and Mining Inc. was 9 hammers which would be 18 beakers in research. Aluminum Co. produced 18 beakers at a net gain of 3 gold. (Wall Street minus maintenance.) Is there a rocket scientist in the house?

    I may do Pericles again as 1850 mercantilism was fun but I still ended up overlaying a religious economy to raise the slider after an early Oxford. Education was teched in full at 0%. Roosevelt may be best. An academy and shrine is probably better than early bulbs into Machinery and Banking. Freddie or Rammy could work too.
     
    boogaboo likes this.
  3. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Preparing to generate maps for another attempt on chieftain. It takes a week or two to get 500 maps at ~75 maps per day. Sometimes the game gets stuck and a day is lost. Roosevelt is the likely pick for leader but Julius Caesar is a curious choice. Builds for a city, any order, are granary, temple, courthouse and forge. A huge map implies building a lot of settlers. The forum has a modicum of utility. But the simplest way to get golden age timing right is to finish expansion as early as possible. Things just get done. Downside is that 2 upgraded warriors practically means no great general to settle. Not enough combat.

    Roosevelt can start a new city by having worker chop worker, then both chop forge then courthouse. Cities start even faster with the Hagia.
     
  4. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Had a curious run with Roosevelt on a huge chieftain. 21 settlers (or more) from huts. Even more funny than that was ax rushing almost the entire highlands by 2400 BC. So many settlers and all the ponies looked blah. A couple of chariots finally helped with AIs 8 & 9 but an axe had gotten to each first. Not enough money/workers from huts. 20 cities and 10 settlers in reserve and almost broke at 2400 BC even with 8+ courthouses up. It might have played on a flat map but this one was cylindrical. Or maybe caste and the mids.
     
  5. Anysense

    Anysense King

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    928
    On a watery map the GLH would be perfect, but on highlands its no use even if you choose high sea level - there will be no islands for better traderoutes. There are a lot of forests, though. You could stay afloat for some time using massive failgold from stonehenge. Perhaps, early mercantilism could help?
     
  6. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Caste is useful to get to mercantilism. Workers are needed to chop. 2500 BC is quite early. Chieftain compared to setter is capturing early AI cities with pop 2-3 and a worker and improvement(s) instead of cities at pop 1 with maybe a worker. Settling my own settlers is pop 1 with maybe a hut worker. Guess which cities get quicker forges and courthouses. Pacing is the main issue. Or Darius ...
     
  7. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Trying a flat, duel chieftain terra. Holy smokes. Got overseas and some far away city was only 6 maintenance. I'm playing the Burger King. A rathaus dropped maintenance to 1.5 gold. Aluminum Co. provided 36 beakers to that city for just 2 gold. I'll finish the game. I thought the rathaus might be good for a 3 corp game: Aluminum Co., Creative Con., and Standard Ethanol. The later is about 80 beakers. No great finish time coming as the start was slowish.
     
  8. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    1065 AD as Burger King on the duel chieftain map. Entire ship was constructed after golden ages were finished. Space elevator helped but it was still 25-30 turns of simultaneous construction. Only 6 cities exceeded 36 gold maintenance. With Wall Street fetching 36 gold, the 3 corps essentially provided 116 beakers and 28 hammers for free. But the duel map is too small for 3 corps. Mining Inc and Standard Methanol would have been fine and faster. UB was nice though.
     
  9. Anysense

    Anysense King

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2015
    Messages:
    928
    How is he on Chieftain? You don't care for his horrible starting techs on this difficulty and Imperialistic is one useful trait. If only he were Organized+Imperialistc, that might have been enough to make him good on Deity/Immortal.
     
  10. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Pretty good. UB seemed like overkill but at least it countered a useless trait. Forbidden Palace wasn't really needed. On chieftain techs are still added, usually agriculture and the wheel. So Charlemagne had 4 starting techs. No fishing or mining. Somehow Mehmed only gets agriculture and the wheel.
     
  11. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Monarch (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,236
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gibraltar
    At the 3 lowest levels you get additional techs as follows:-

    Settler - The Wheel, Agriculture, Mining
    Chieftain - The Wheel, Agriculture
    Warlord - The Wheel

    If you already have these as your starting techs then you don't get any additional techs to compensate.
     
  12. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    There is enough space on a cylindrical highlands for only 1 round of spaceship building on a duel marathon map. A ring of 10 cities fit on the top of the cylinder. With 2 border pops only 20% of the map is consumed. Mining Inc. eliminates the need for granaries there or even population. That's where thrusters and casings can be built. Casings imply plastics and ... tactics. So now I'm back to Asoka for more fun.
     
  13. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Working on a plan for an Asoka duel chieftain. Game length implies a useful 5th golden age. Aiming for Std E implies the 4 GPs in the tree can be used for it. The other 3 are trivial. Shrine then academy should set up the REX-O-MATIC. Game length also favors the academy. Testing shows 6 early cities (4 hut settlers) is a -1 economy. Stonehenge is bad for map size so Oracle for civil service/metal casting may be desirable for a shrine. SP for pacifism may work but there is a quick route to it that delays mercantilism. Also AP/HS and a religious economy should be potent. 4 GPs for a GA is a lot but how potent is bulbing on this map size?
     
    boogaboo likes this.
  14. boogaboo

    boogaboo Josef Popper 4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,847
    Location:
    Holon, Israel
    I vaguely understand what you're saying.. so I'll chip in (although you are working on my slot!) --

    A shrine will help, but I never understand why anyone would not first do an early academy.
    I don't use pacifism much, except when I'm short of a GP at near the end in a GA.

    I vote against religious buildings, besides monasteries in capital, but that's my style of play. I think temples are mostly a waste at lower levels.

    About the potency of bulbing vs a 5th GA... It's about a tie. my hands are tied... don't know what's better.
    Of course bulbing also depends on population size, so it's your call.
     
  15. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    I might have been there first ...

    The case against an academy is how much time is there from it to launch? If it produces an average of +30 beakers for 175 turns that's a gain of 5250 beakers. If there's 125 turns that's 3750 beakers. Bulbing around education or biology is usually around 5k-7k on the bigger maps.
     
  16. boogaboo

    boogaboo Josef Popper 4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,847
    Location:
    Holon, Israel
    You MAY be right but -
    1. Bulbing isn't that powerful on Duel I believe.
    2. Check your turn count.. it seems low. Perhaps doing an early academy (50 turns after capital's library) would change that count?
     
  17. boogaboo

    boogaboo Josef Popper 4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,847
    Location:
    Holon, Israel
    Yes, 2012 ;)
     
    iggymnrr likes this.
  18. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Turn count. Guess I'm used to big maps where a scientist at 2000 BC is 170 turns max from a BC win. Duel would be many more turns. Might be a bit before I can get to a game. Moving, attempting to finish a civ 6 game (failing, awful game), and map size limits food. Best map may be rainforest but city count would be very low. Food on a highlands looks suspect though. Wondering about Gandhi instead of Asoka. Might go back to a huge chieftain as Roosevelt should be very interesting.
     
  19. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Taking a quick break from space games. Just finished a proof of concept culture game on a settler highlands. Blindfolded I equaled my recent record. Easy and with less hut luck. Seems like it is better to double the double than it is to double the single. e.g. A 10 culture wonder finishing at 1500 BC will double to 20 culture by 500 BC. Building a pair of cathedrals will double that to 40 culture. Meanwhile building another 10 culture wonder will produce 20 culture total but take longer for the second one to double while delaying cathedrals. At warp speed the 2nd one might not double at all.
     
  20. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,078
    Submitted a 700 BC cultural win with Gandhi on a tiny settler highlands. This could be the fastest cultural win on the whole table at standard speed.

    Sistine is pretty sweet. 5 culture gets added to religious buildings which then doubles to 10 in 1000 years. A cathedral then makes that 15. This is in addition to non-Sistine culture buildings normally have. State cathedrals also get 5 added culture. But that doesn't double in 1000 years for some reason.

    Start had pigs and stone so Stonehenge got built on turn 29. A granary was next. Starting warrior walked into an empty AI city around turn 7ish. It had 3 corn and rivers and hills. A formal warrior rush got a city on turn 27ish which had a worker and marble. Not bad. Wrong GPs plagued the finish at low odds otherwise 660 BC was possible. Maybe earlier.

    Isabella DOWed me at the end. That conflict is still ongoing.
     
    Noble Zarkon likes this.

Share This Page