Over the Reich - Creation Thread

[JPetroski]

This means that the Germans and Allies have a similar rate of technological progress at the moment, and fuel works about right for the Germans under these circumstances.

I am more or less pleased with the way fuel has gone, yes. I don't want to mess with it as it feels about as close to perfect as I think we're likely to get.

We get 'far enough' through the tech tree around turn 70. If we increase tech costs by 50%, this would make that point around turn 105. If we dole out some techs at the start of the game, semi-completion of the tech tree will happen a few turns sooner.

I think the science rate is set at 125 but I'll have to check. So I suppose we could try 187. It might make sense to give each side 1-2 of the industry techs off the bat so it doesn't take each forever to get to something interesting. I would also suggest letting Wilde Sau be researchable sooner as it is very important and delaying it several turns is going to throw balance out of whack.

Maybe we should bestow the currently researching tech (so beakers are not wasted) to both players when certain point thresholds are reached. That way, if the 'story' progresses faster, the technologies keep up.

I don't know about this because I think it's another good way to help whoever is winning (assuming they too needed the tech they wanted). What I would like us to consider is an event where if the Russian Front opens up (so 8 cities are captured with at least 1 in Germany), Germany automatically gets tech #30 (Volksjäger). This is the tech that offers the less expensive jet fighters that aren't as good as 262s. These were desperate aircraft in the real war and I think it would make sense that the player get these at this point. Maybe they even get a couple built near Berlin.

There's a psychological impact to playing as Germany that we've always got to give them just a little bit of hope that they can carry on or every game is going to end well before it is finished.

Do we need the prototype at all? Why not just use an event to put some extra beakers into the German research bucket? I think this would be a good idea, to give the 'critical industry' something to do beyond just researching towards rockets (which the German player might not care too much about).

I guess we really don't, and depositing the beakers directly means they are received and not shot up by the Allies. We'll also have 2 more units that way if we find we need them.

You're correct, it probably wouldn't be unbalancing.

The next time I work on the game I'm going to go ahead and add in these to the starting turn then.

That makes sense. Part of that, however, was the fact that I got most of the ports, so convoys started crossing the sea in greater numbers.

True but the ports are very difficult targets to defend (anything that can be approached from the sea is tough to guard against effectively), and they give such a good bonus, that I'd suspect that they'll be a top target in most games.

Moving on, I want to do two things on my end that shouldn't require any code work:

1. I am going to rewrite the readme. I've been adding stuff in here and there and the document is just a jumbled mess at this point that probably terrifies all who read it. While I can still keep some of it (such as historical background, etc), my goal is going to try and make it concise and give each player a few pages of what they actually need to know to play the game. I'll probably get rid of the nice little "key" graphics in favor of an easier to print and keep spreadsheet of what each key does on each circumstance as well. I think this game is so different that the readme out to read more like a strategy guide filled with hotkey help.

2. I think I have come up with a way to make a hotseat game enjoyable to play against yourself, but it will require some map work on my part. Basically, the only reason the game can't be "as much fun" to play against yourself is that you already know exactly what you're doing. Here's my proposed solution (bear in mind this is ONLY for a single player game and none of these markings have any impact whatsoever on a MP game, aside perhaps from making organization easier):

*I will draw outlines on the map of different fighter regions (this data is available for Germany and I'll probably just use the same group regions from the Battle of Britain for the Allies).
*I will add an " * " to the name of one airfield within each region. These will be "hub airfields."

General Rules:
1. Fighter aircraft for both sides must remain grounded within their region until enemy contact (radar, scouts, or attack reports) suggest that the enemy is present in that region, or a neighboring region;
2. The only exception is that fighter aircraft MAY fly from their region to the Hub airfield of another region, but they may not attack targets while en route.
3. The fighters in the hub airfield are considered "rehomed" to that new region, and rule #1 applies to them.
4. Air and naval forces will follow dice rolls explained below.
5. The game requires two six-sided dice.

*The game will be played with two six-sided dice.

Aircraft Scouting via Dice Rolls - ONLY applies to units "scouting" for undetected forces. Otherwise, aircraft vectored to targets in or neighboring their region as described above.
*Any aircraft can be designated a "scout" on any turn and take off from an airfield, however the direction it will go is dependent on the sum of the dice roll.
*The sum of the dice roll determines the direction, as it will correspond to the number key on a keyboard. If you roll a sum of 7, you can head NW. If you roll 4, you head W, and so on.
*It is permissible to use the "mirror number" (so 7 and 3, 1 and 9, 4 and 6, 2 and 8) so that you don't send a scout into southern France pointlessly. You can pick between the two directions to do what would make sense.
*Rolling 5 allows you to pick the direction of your choice.
*Rolling 10-12 results in "engine trouble" and the aircraft must return to the nearest base.
*After each roll, the scouting aircraft must move 10 spaces in the direction of the roll. After 10 spaces, you may roll again, hoping for a change in direction.

Naval Movement (aircraft carrier, submarine, task force)
*Naval forces may scout for each other if no contact or combat in the previous turn (so if you had attacked a convoy on turn 3, you don't need to do this turn 4 - you can just do what a reasonable person would do and try to find it, but if you have no contact at all, your forces need to use these rules).
*The same dice rules apply:
*The sum of the dice roll determines the direction, as it will correspond to the number key on a keyboard. If you roll a sum of 7, you can head NW. If you roll 4, you head W, and so on.
*It is permissible to use the "mirror number" (so 7 and 3, 1 and 9, 4 and 6, 2 and 8) so that you don't send a scout into southern France pointlessly. You can pick between the two directions to do what would make sense.
*Because of the shorter MP of naval units, you can reroll after each movement space.

Anyway, I mostly put this together so I can get some more enjoyment out of the scenario, but I also think this might make it more likely that others would get into it a bit as they have a chance to explore it on their own, might find they like it, and might want to try with a friend after having done so. Finally, I might be able to convince one of our lurkers to playtest this in single player mode if they knew they could do so at their own pace rather than needing to commit to several months (cough cough, @tootall_2012 ).

 

[JPetroski]

I've been working on the readme and want to clarify something. I wrote this and believe it is accurate:

Your aircraft cannot operate beyond their maximum range. While you can move them wherever you like, if they ever move so far away from a friendly airfield that they can’t land, they won’t fire any munitions, and won’t defend themselves in combat.

Would their defense value also revert to 1 and if not currently, should it? I'm just thinking maybe there's still a point to sacrificing high-defensive fighters unless we do this.

Also, in another thread I mentioned we have one house rule:

While we have tried to create a scenario that doesn’t require house rules, an annoying bug where sometimes the production queue will “upgrade” USAAF bombers in the city screen to RAF bombers necessitates one:

The Allies cannot use the following aircraft on either daylight map because they have the sub flag and would imbalance the game:


· Stirling Bomber
· Halifax Bomber
· Lancaster Bomber
· Beaufighter
· Mosquito NF Mk. II
· Mosquito NF Mk. XIII

Further, no American aircraft may be used on the night map

Can we clean this with lua? Maybe by checking the production of map 0 and changing it from the British bombers to American ones, and the British night fighters to Spitfires? I also noticed on one of the playtest saves that you somehow started building a 110 but I'll bet that was in a captured airfield and will disappear once we start deleting those on capture.

I know it's a little thing and I'm pestering you with a lot, but it would be nice to release a scenario that simply didn't have house rules, period. Frankly, I think it'd be a bit of a power move to say, "We've created a scenario that doesn't require house rules."

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I've been working on the readme and want to clarify something. I wrote this and believe it is accurate:

Your aircraft cannot operate beyond their maximum range. While you can move them wherever you like, if they ever move so far away from a friendly airfield that they can’t land, they won’t fire any munitions, and won’t defend themselves in combat.

Would their defense value also revert to 1 and if not currently, should it? I'm just thinking maybe there's still a point to sacrificing high-defensive fighters unless we do this.

If you attack an aircraft beyond its theoretical maximum range (movement*half of range rounded down), it will die on the first round of combat, just like a fighter gun attacking a factory. It is, in fact, detrimental to stack such a plane with a bomber, since the bomber might survive, but the fighter definitely won't. All you can really do beyond the maximum range with a plane is scout try to bluff your opponent into thinking you have a closer airbase.

Can we clean this with lua? Maybe by checking the production of map 0 and changing it from the British bombers to American ones, and the British night fighters to Spitfires? I also noticed on one of the playtest saves that you somehow started building a 110 but I'll bet that was in a captured airfield and will disappear once we start deleting those on capture.

I know it's a little thing and I'm pestering you with a lot, but it would be nice to release a scenario that simply didn't have house rules, period. Frankly, I think it'd be a bit of a power move to say, "We've created a scenario that doesn't require house rules."

I noticed this a while ago, but other stuff seemed more pressing. Probably the easiest way to deal with this is to check if a city 'can build' the unit whenever a unit is produced. If it can't delete the unit and refund the shields (maybe with a message to a player).

I think we should consider making it so that Lancasters have a different enabling tech than B17Gs, then we don't have to worry about B17Fs upgrading to Lancasters in the production queue.

 

[JPetroski]

If you attack an aircraft beyond its theoretical maximum range (movement*half of range rounded down), it will die on the first round of combat, just like a fighter gun attacking a factory. It is, in fact, detrimental to stack such a plane with a bomber, since the bomber might survive, but the fighter definitely won't. All you can really do beyond the maximum range with a plane is scout try to bluff your opponent into thinking you have a closer airbase.

Awesome. I'll update the readme.

I think we should consider making it so that Lancasters have a different enabling tech than B17Gs, then we don't have to worry about B17Fs upgrading to Lancasters in the production queue.

I can look into doing this.

 

[JPetroski]

I think we should consider making it so that Lancasters have a different enabling tech than B17Gs, then we don't have to worry about B17Fs upgrading to Lancasters in the production queue.

Upon review, the easiest option may be to rename "Night Fighters" to "Night Operations" and give the RAF bombers with that tech rather than strategic bombers. Otherwise I need to cut 2 techs elsewhere as we currently only have 1 to spare that won't cause problems. I've gone ahead and made the change in the rules. I also had to update some art since the Allied cities will "change" to modern cities via this, though no one will be the wiser.

I also explored what improvement we can use for critical industries, and the only one that is possible is the flak battery. Currently two cities (London and Berlin) have this and I can't sell them. Berlin isn't a problem because I'll need it for Politz anyway, as it is the closet to that target. For London we have three options:

1. Ignore it as it doesn't hurt anything (easiest option)
2. Delete it via events because I've already sold an improvement there and can't remove it easily (I don't want to copy one cities improvements because the strategic bombing mechanism makes this a pain at this point). This seems like "polish work" but not terribly necessary.
3. Give the British a critical target or two the Germans can hit. This creates more work for you, but if there are certain advantages you feel are overwhelming as the Allies, being able to chip away at it wouldn't be bad.

Also, are we able to somehow restrict what cities can build the critical industry in the first place because we only want a few of them to be able to do so.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Upon review, the easiest option may be to rename "Night Fighters" to "Night Operations" and give the RAF bombers with that tech rather than strategic bombers. Otherwise I need to cut 2 techs elsewhere as we currently only have 1 to spare that won't cause problems. I've gone ahead and made the change in the rules. I also had to update some art since the Allied cities will "change" to modern cities via this, though no one will be the wiser.

The night operations solution makes sense, though you should probably modify the tech tree for those to include Engines at some point. We can also play with Albert Speer's Death, and maybe the Window technology. Change Window to 'Night Bombers' or something, and add the prerequisite Night Fighters II or something. 3 500 lb bombs are quite powerful, so maybe Lancasters should be attached to Engines IV (though a tech after Engines III might make sense).

I also explored what improvement we can use for critical industries, and the only one that is possible is the flak battery. Currently two cities (London and Berlin) have this and I can't sell them. Berlin isn't a problem because I'll need it for Politz anyway, as it is the closet to that target. For London we have three options:

We never did anything with shipping losses (mass transit), so why not use that? We could also use sabotage port (this should be buildable as long can build doesn't also require the default build conditions to be satisfied).

2. Delete it via events because I've already sold an improvement there and can't remove it easily (I don't want to copy one cities improvements because the strategic bombing mechanism makes this a pain at this point). This seems like "polish work" but not terribly necessary.

It should be easy to delete using the console, if we have to, but we might not.

3. Give the British a critical target or two the Germans can hit. This creates more work for you, but if there are certain advantages you feel are overwhelming as the Allies, being able to chip away at it wouldn't be bad.

I'm fine with this, if you have any ideas. I'm not sure what would make sense.

Also, are we able to somehow restrict what cities can build the critical industry in the first place because we only want a few of them to be able to do so.

Shouldn't be a problem at all. Basically return false if city is not in a list. I can do that part.

 

[JPetroski]

The night operations solution makes sense, though you should probably modify the tech tree for those to include Engines at some point. We can also play with Albert Speer's Death, and maybe the Window technology. Change Window to 'Night Bombers' or something, and add the prerequisite Night Fighters II or something. 3 500 lb bombs are quite powerful, so maybe Lancasters should be attached to Engines IV (though a tech after Engines III might make sense).

I was able to clear up three techs earlier today but got pulled away before I could mention it (automobile and electronics plus philosophy). I "gave" the Brits philosophy already and then took it back, so hopefully they don't get a boost now if they get it. I've changed this to "Night Bombing I, II, and III." They share similar engine prerequisites to strategic bombing. The Allied player will have to figure out which one is more important to them and when, but in any event, their tech tree is now 2 useful techs longer. This plus Peenemunde might/should give the Germans the slight tech edge we're looking for.

We never did anything with shipping losses (mass transit), so why not use that? We could also use sabotage port (this should be buildable as long can build doesn't also require the default build conditions to be satisfied).

I forgot about that one - yes, we could use that too I suppose.

I'm fine with this, if you have any ideas. I'm not sure what would make sense.

Is there any advantage that needs to be taken down a peg? I think it's a lot of trouble for something at least 70% of players will never bother with so I'm almost inclined to just not have it.

I am thinking that if Germany actually bothers to research better bombers, I might give them a one time boost of 12 of the units. I would think researching those techs is very counterproductive, so unless there is some incentive, they almost never will. There were some "baby Blitz" periods against England during our scenario's timeframe, so it would be good to at least present a potential option of it occurring. This is the kind of event I can add myself though, so don't worry about it.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Is there any advantage that needs to be taken down a peg? I think it's a lot of trouble for something at least 70% of players will never bother with so I'm almost inclined to just not have it.

The Allied advantage is basically support from America. The Germans have ways to disrupt this already (U-Boats, attacking Military Ports). It isn't really clear what would represent a 'single point of failure' in England for anything war related. Was there any place that was a major fuel storage location? That might be something. Target that and destroy all Allied stocks of fuel (maybe leave a few hundred, to avoid building selloff), and don't get fuel from new convoys. That could be a blow to the Allies, especially since they couldn't just rush the improvement.

I am thinking that if Germany actually bothers to research better bombers, I might give them a one time boost of 12 of the units. I would think researching those techs is very counterproductive, so unless there is some incentive, they almost never will. There were some "baby Blitz" periods against England during our scenario's timeframe, so it would be good to at least present a potential option of it occurring. This is the kind of event I can add myself though, so don't worry about it.

That could make some sense.

A while ago we discussed limiting the carrying capacity of aircraft carriers, in order to prevent them being used by the Germans in the Battle of the Atlantic. It might be easier to just make it so that aircraft carriers can only be built in Germany Proper. That way, they couldn't be rushed with a few trains in France and immediately released into the Atlantic.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I know you've been changing the rules, but have you been making changes to the events also?

 

[JPetroski]

I have exclusively banged my head against the wall with Midway, so there have been no changes to the events. Here are the most updated rules. I haven't changed the critical industry to mass transit yet.

 

[JPetroski]

A while ago we discussed limiting the carrying capacity of aircraft carriers, in order to prevent them being used by the Germans in the Battle of the Atlantic. It might be easier to just make it so that aircraft carriers can only be built in Germany Proper. That way, they couldn't be rushed with a few trains in France and immediately released into the Atlantic.

That works for me!

 

[JPetroski]

Here are the five coordinates for the critical targets. Please note that Peenemunde is a night target given the RAF hit it in Hydra. I don't think we need any terrain changes for these, we just need the critical industry (improvement 13) to create these units with their home cities correct, and then for an attack to remove that improvement and the unit.

I would imagine the code to check and see if the benefits will/will not be gained would be to check if improvement 13 is present in these cities. It currently is.

-344,102,1: Add critical target Messerschmidt Flugzeugwerke at Regensburg
-311,55,1: Add critical target Blohm & Voss U-Boot Werke at Hamburg
-379,69,1: Add critical target Politz Refinery (controlled by Berlin)
-316,94,1 : Add Kugelfischer-Georg-Schäfer Ball Bearing factory at Schweinfurt
-372,56,2: Add critical target Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe at Peenemunde

Also I believe we mentioned that there ought to be a trade off to the Allies here. They should not gain any points for attacking these targets. I hesitate to say the points should be removed as that would probably cause issues where we'd need to add justOnce to every single points threshold event for the Allies which isn't worth the bother, IMO.

Edit: here are the descriptions from describe (and the readme). If we aren't on the same page, please speak up. Thanks!

@@109 Critical Target

Germany has five critical targets that the Allies can attack:

Messerschmidt Flugzeugwerke at Regensburg
*Grants Germany 2x Me109 for every one produced;
*Ensures that Germany will always have at least 25% of Allied fighter strength. If the Jagdflieger falls below this threshold, they will automatically receive enough 109s to bring them back to it.
*Germany can rebuild this unit by rebuilding the Critical Industries improvement in Regensburg.

Blohm & Voss U-Boot Werke at Hamburg
*Grants Germany 3x U-Boats on any turn that none currently exist.
*Germany can rebuild this unit by rebuilding the Critical Industries improvement in Hamburg.

Politz Refinery (north east of Berlin)
*Each time this industry is destroyed, Germany loses one of their fuel production techs. They will lose Fuel Production III first, then Fuel Production II, then Fuel Production I. Thus, Germany will not be able to start production of new refineries of the matching tier until the corresponding tech is researched again.
*This unit and the corresponding Critical Industries improvement will automatically restore itself in 5 turns, allowing the Allies to strike it again.

Kugelfischer-Georg-Schäfer Ball Bearing factory at Schweinfurt
*Each time this industry is destroyed, Germany loses one of their Industry techs. They will lose Industry III first, then Industry II, then Industry I. Thus, Germany will not be able to start production of new refineries of the matching tier until the corresponding tech is researched again.
*This unit and the corresponding Critical Industries improvement will automatically restore itself in 5 turns, allowing the Allies to strike it again.

Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe at Peenemünde
*Grants Germany 1 research point each turn it is alive. Germany gains a free tech every time they gain 10 research points. The German point progress cannot be reversed, but it can be halted by destroying the Critical Target unit near Peenemünde.
*Germany can rebuild this unit by rebuilding the Critical Industries improvement in Peenemünde.

 

[JPetroski]

TO DO - Based on Current Playtest

*Just as a note, with the critical industries, I have some mentioining that the target needs to automatically respawn while others suggest that the Germans need to rebuild them themselves via the strategic bombing mechanism. This is because some of them are advantageous to the Germans to rebuild quickly, while others they'd be better off never building again if left to their own devices.

Moved this here so it is more visible.
When completed, tasks will be added below in "DONE"

IN EVENTS:

-Need to remove "Luftwaffe Airfield" line from improvement build restrictions, switch to Critical Industries and have it mirror the other "city city" restrictions so it can't be built in airfields
-Make sure all German night fighters have native transport for when they're on the day map
-Limit the number of aircraft each carrier can hold to 3
-Should flak reactive defense also kill the munitions of the bombers? I kind of think it should.
-Need a mechanism where 500 fuel will be restored to both sides before their turn starts and improvements start getting sold
-If an Urban Center is killed in England, make it so the Allies can't get additional points for 3 turns or until they kill a launch site. This would create a 'political' motivation to focus on the rockets, even if ignoring and re-building might be the player's preferred option.
-Add critical target Messerschmidt Flugzeugwerke at Regensburg: Either 2 for 1 109s, or free 109s to guarantee Luftwaffe fighter strength of 25% of Allied each turn, so long as this target is alive. We probably want the Germans to have to rebuild this themselves, and have it be expensive.
-Firestorm event: destroying an urban center in a city has a chance of starting a firestorm that destroys everything

IN README AND HELP TEXT:
-Add a "quality of life" section in the readme - maybe a quick hitlist
-Newly produced 15th Airforce and Red Tails are teleported to the Italian Front, and have all movement expended for the turn they are produced



-Depleted German Battle Groups are now moved out of airfields upon k-attack just like all other battle groups (in the table, I put in depleted allied battle groups twice).
-Battle Groups now always have 5hp after being attacked by munitions (previously, the attack stopped once they were reduced to 5 or less).
-The Allies also have the regrouping mechanism as a depleted battle group (once they have cities on the continent). The new allied mechanism, however, replaces depleted battle groups and also sends depleted battle groups when a full strength battle group becomes depleted (so force strength is eventually preserved, or even increased a little).
-For every defeat allied battle groups suffer, a depleted battle group will be sent to the allied reinforcement cities (plymouth, Glasgow, etc). Two will be sent if a full strength battle group is annihilated. For each depleted battle group sent, 0.5 of a German port is added to the battle of the Atlantic calculation, to represent loss of manpower for production. 1 port is roughly equal to half a train per turn (a port is roughly 1/9 of a convoy per turn). We can tweak the number if necessary.


-Pathfinders now produce 10 window at full health.
-Remove historic targets references and discuss critical industries instead
-Escape into the Night reference:
At the moment, the unit will only try to escape to a tile exactly the specified distance away. If withinRadius is set to true, then all tiles within the distance are equally likely (so if the escape radius is 2, then all tiles within 2 squares, including the starting square, have an equal chance of being selected)
At the moment, avoidStacks is set to true. This means that the plane will try to escape to an empty square first, and only stack on another friendly unit if no empty squares are available. Setting avoidStacks = false eliminates this behaviour.

DONE

-The threshold for Soviet front to open should be the current points level and 8 captured cities with at least one of them being in Germany proper.
-Add critical target Blohm & Voss U-Boot Werke - If alive, 3 U-Boats created randomly at sea if Germans have none (please let the "none" be adjustable - we might want the "floor" to be lower, say less than 5). We probably want the Germans to have to rebuild this themselves, and have it be expensive.
-Add critical target Peenemunde - have this research techs from pulse jet engines to Vergeltungswaffen 2 for free at pace of 10 per turn, once the prerequisities for these techs are available. We probably want the Germans to have to rebuild this themselves, and have it be expensive.
-Add critical target Politz Refinery - Removes Fuel Refinery III, II, I techs in that order. Needs to respawn automatically every 3 turns.
-Add critical target Schweinfurt Ball Bearing Plants - Removes Industry III, II, I techs in that order. Needs to respawn automatically every 3 turns.
-Increase number of defensive reactions for light flak to 6
-Added 3.7cm flak to Rheinsehlen, Bretigny, Metz, Pocking, Deelen, and Doberitz. These will form the "HQ" airfields or hub airfields for the Single Player game.
-344,102,1: Add critical target Messerschmidt Flugzeugwerke at Regensburg
-311,55,1: Add critical target Blohm & Voss U-Boot Werke at Hamburg
-379,69,1: Add critical target Politz Refinery (controlled by Berlin)
-316,94,1 : Add Kugelfischer-Georg-Schäfer Ball Bearing factory at Schweinfurt
-372,56,2: Add critical target Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe at Peenemunde
-Double check Vienna - is it also working with urban terrain being destroyed?
-Reduced cost of 15th AF to 25 given your feedback
-Reduced defense of the flak train and freight train slightly to account for the defensive bonus that railtrack provides. If a flak train is moved onto an urban tile it will be more vulnerable as a result, but I can live with this.
-Increased cost of Red Tails to 100
-Increased defense of Task Forces 30 to 50
-Increased defenses of critical target to 50
-Increased cost of pathfinders given they now produce 10 window. Increased from 45 to 60
-Deleted reference to neutral territory unit art being from Tootall's Napoleon since I changed the graphic -- DONE
-Change name of Atlantic Wall to Adolf Hitler and change the improvement icons -- DONE
-Confirmed last urban target near Linz destroyed terrain when it was killed--DONE
-Removed Prague and Aarhus from German city list
-Allowed Ju88G and He219 to fire rockets on day map if transfered there via Wilde Sau
-I'm allowing German nightfighters to be produced on any map. They will be additional heavy fighters that aren't as good as true bomber destroyers because they lose all MP when they fire a rocket yet also draw defensive fire from bombers. Since they're going to be allowed on all maps via Wilde Sau, why not simply allow them to be built on all maps as well.
-I have given all named Aces the power to fire A2A rockets. When added, the generic Experten will lack this.
-Differentiated the named Experten:
-Egon Mayer fires 2x rockets barrage
-H.W. Schnaufer will escape into the night; the only Experten who can
-Priller does not have a fuel penalty for any attacks and now moves 50 spaces each turn, can attack 5x
-Graf has 25 defense now and can land on carriers as he files a 109 - Now arrives at point threshold vs. Schweinfurt - DID NOT REMOVE schweinfurt event--figure you will get rid of that eventually.
-Galland is a jet and the won't have a MP deduction for rockets. Fuel cost half that of regular 262 - point threshold increased for his arrival
-Added generic Experten unit, art, and events - they are weaker than the named aces on defense and can't carry rockets, but they're able to intercept. They also have a shorter reaction distance (3 squares compared to 4). The Germans can currently earn up to 10 of them throughout the scenario.
-Medium Bombers now don't use any MP with their payload, so they can attack targets and escape.
-Confirmed that Fw190A8 will draw defensive fire from 15th AF Bombers
-Fixed issue where Fw190F wasn't drawing defensive reaction. It and the Do335 now are classified as German heavy fighters and can be attacked by defenders
-Reduced P-51D reaction damage against jets to {{.2, 5}}, 332nd Fighter Group still left at {{.2, 10}} to further differentiate it - it is now the best jet killer

 

[JPetroski]

@Konig15 and @tootall_2012 (as well as @anyonefollowingthis thread)

Please read the spoiler for my thoughts on enabling a more enjoyable single player hotseat game (where you would play against yourself, though I suppose at any moment you could invite a friend / have them drop in / drop out).

I'm considering drawing the darkened lines seen below on the map. Given there are three maps, all of which would need the reference, this would be a considerable amount of work. I estimate the time to complete it at 2-3 hours. I don't want to do this if there is zero chance that either of you, or anyone out there, would want to playtest this from a single player scenario.

I know it is a little odd to play against yourself, but I am trying to find a way to add challenge and randomness to the experience. It is simply too much of an undertaking to make playing the AI viable. It would require a complete rebuild, and even then might not work.

When Prof. Garfield and I wrap up our latest rounds of modifications, would either of you (or anyone reading) be willing to take a stab at a single player playtest? I suppose by asking this, rather than asking you if you'd like to play me, you can complete this "at your leisure" rather than over the course of several months.

Spoiler :

2. I think I have come up with a way to make a hotseat game enjoyable to play against yourself, but it will require some map work on my part. Basically, the only reason the game can't be "as much fun" to play against yourself is that you already know exactly what you're doing. Here's my proposed solution (bear in mind this is ONLY for a single player game and none of these markings have any impact whatsoever on a MP game, aside perhaps from making organization easier):

*I will draw outlines on the map of different fighter regions (this data is available for Germany and I'll probably just use the same group regions from the Battle of Britain for the Allies).
*I will add an " * " to the name of one airfield within each region. These will be "hub airfields."

General Rules:
1. Fighter aircraft for both sides must remain grounded within their region until enemy contact (radar, scouts, or attack reports) suggest that the enemy is present in that region, or a neighboring region;
2. The only exception is that fighter aircraft MAY fly from their region to the Hub airfield of another region, but they may not attack targets while en route.
3. The fighters in the hub airfield are considered "rehomed" to that new region, and rule #1 applies to them.
4. Air and naval forces will follow dice rolls explained below.
5. The game requires two six-sided dice.

*The game will be played with two six-sided dice.

Aircraft Scouting via Dice Rolls - ONLY applies to units "scouting" for undetected forces. Otherwise, aircraft vectored to targets in or neighboring their region as described above.
*Any aircraft can be designated a "scout" on any turn and take off from an airfield, however the direction it will go is dependent on the sum of the dice roll.
*The sum of the dice roll determines the direction, as it will correspond to the number key on a keyboard. If you roll a sum of 7, you can head NW. If you roll 4, you head W, and so on.
*It is permissible to use the "mirror number" (so 7 and 3, 1 and 9, 4 and 6, 2 and 8) so that you don't send a scout into southern France pointlessly. You can pick between the two directions to do what would make sense.
*Rolling 5 allows you to pick the direction of your choice.
*Rolling 10-12 results in "engine trouble" and the aircraft must return to the nearest base.
*After each roll, the scouting aircraft must move 10 spaces in the direction of the roll. After 10 spaces, you may roll again, hoping for a change in direction.

Naval Movement (aircraft carrier, submarine, task force)
*Naval forces may scout for each other if no contact or combat in the previous turn (so if you had attacked a convoy on turn 3, you don't need to do this turn 4 - you can just do what a reasonable person would do and try to find it, but if you have no contact at all, your forces need to use these rules).
*The same dice rules apply:
*The sum of the dice roll determines the direction, as it will correspond to the number key on a keyboard. If you roll a sum of 7, you can head NW. If you roll 4, you head W, and so on.
*It is permissible to use the "mirror number" (so 7 and 3, 1 and 9, 4 and 6, 2 and 8) so that you don't send a scout into southern France pointlessly. You can pick between the two directions to do what would make sense.
*Because of the shorter MP of naval units, you can reroll after each movement space.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Messerschmidt Flugzeugwerke at Regensburg
*Grants Germany 2x Me109 for every one produced;
*Ensures that Germany will always have at least 25% of Allied fighter strength. If the Jagdflieger falls below this threshold, they will automatically receive enough 109s to bring them back to it.
*Germany can rebuild this unit by rebuilding the Critical Industries improvement in Regensburg.

I'm inclined to think we should exclude Spitfires from the fighter count for the Allies for the purposes of this event. With such short range, I could see the Allies being inclined to disband or sacrifice them later in the game just to reduce the number of 109s. Could also be seen as a bit of a bonus for building these units.

Erprobungsstelle der Luftwaffe at Peenemünde
*Grants Germany 1 research point each turn it is alive. Germany gains a free tech every time they gain 10 research points. The German point progress cannot be reversed, but it can be halted by destroying the Critical Target unit near Peenemünde.
*Germany can rebuild this unit by rebuilding the Critical Industries improvement in Peenemünde.

Do the techs have to be on the path to the V2 (as we discussed earlier), or is it now just give the tech currently being researched. Or, are we having two bonuses? We could have on path to V2, then give tech currently being researched after.

-Limit the number of aircraft each carrier can hold to 3

I presume this is cancelled, since we've decided to just limit where carriers can be built?

 

[JPetroski]

I'm inclined to think we should exclude Spitfires from the fighter count for the Allies for the purposes of this event. With such short range, I could see the Allies being inclined to disband or sacrifice them later in the game just to reduce the number of 109s. Could also be seen as a bit of a bonus for building these units.

This would work for me. It would be nice to see more Spits in action.

Do the techs have to be on the path to the V2 (as we discussed earlier), or is it now just give the tech currently being researched. Or, are we having two bonuses? We could have on path to V2, then give tech currently being researched after.

-I think it should just be any tech. I think if we give the Germans a free tech every 10 turns, at most they'll earn an extra 12, which would allow them to unleash some of the cool "super weapons." I think it is very unlikely that the German player manages to outproduce the Allies over time, so the tech advantage is going to be critical to help keep the German player's head in the game until the end. What @McMonkey observed in an earlier playtest about it being pretty disheartening at times is true. At least when Allied bombers fall, you know that you're on your way to building significantly more of them. The Germans just see more and more rubble and have less and less resources to address it, so I think from a psychological as well as balancing standpoint, a person who signs up to play as Germany ought to at least know they're going to have "fun cool stuff" to play with.

By turn 86, I still had a little over 20 techs I could research, not counting the industry ones I needed to research a second time, so I think even with this mechanism, choices will need to be made. You mentioned that you think by increasing the tech rate from 125 to 187 we'd be looking at comparable tech rates of around 105 turns, so at that point the player would still have 10 more techs to go.

As another balancing mechanism, the fact that Peenemunde controls it, and that is hit by night, forces the Germans to maintain a stronger night fighter force than I ever did.

I'm just concerned about situations where, say, Germany has researched 95% of a technology before the 10th turn fires. What are our options for addressing this? Can we simply give beakers that are equivalent to those needed for a technological advance, and have them roll over into the next tech?

I presume this is cancelled, since we've decided to just limit where carriers can be built?

-Yes, sorry I missed it. I'll update the to do. I'm assuming you can just use the cities in Germany check for this? I'd say any "German" port is fine.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Your reasoning about Peenemunde simply granting a tech makes sense.

I'm just concerned about situations where, say, Germany has researched 95% of a technology before the 10th turn fires. What are our options for addressing this? Can we simply give beakers that are equivalent to those needed for a technological advance, and have them roll over into the next tech?

My plan is simply to have a 'Peenemunde Counter' that reduces by 1 every turn, as long as Peenemunde has its critical industry. At 0, the technology currently being researched is bestowed, and the counter is reset to 10. This should leave the beakers currently accumulated available for the next tech. If the industry is destroyed with 1 turn left, the Germans will simply have to rebuild it in order to get a free tech, but they can still progress through the tech tree as normal. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

[Konig15]

@Konig15 and @tootall_2012 (as well as @anyonefollowingthis thread)

Please read the spoiler for my thoughts on enabling a more enjoyable single player hotseat game (where you would play against yourself, though I suppose at any moment you could invite a friend / have them drop in / drop out).

I'm considering drawing the darkened lines seen below on the map. Given there are three maps, all of which would need the reference, this would be a considerable amount of work. I estimate the time to complete it at 2-3 hours. I don't want to do this if there is zero chance that either of you, or anyone out there, would want to playtest this from a single player scenario.

I know it is a little odd to play against yourself, but I am trying to find a way to add challenge and randomness to the experience. It is simply too much of an undertaking to make playing the AI viable. It would require a complete rebuild, and even then might not work.

When Prof. Garfield and I wrap up our latest rounds of modifications, would either of you (or anyone reading) be willing to take a stab at a single player playtest? I suppose by asking this, rather than asking you if you'd like to play me, you can complete this "at your leisure" rather than over the course of several months.

View attachment 542321

Spoiler :

2. I think I have come up with a way to make a hotseat game enjoyable to play against yourself, but it will require some map work on my part. Basically, the only reason the game can't be "as much fun" to play against yourself is that you already know exactly what you're doing. Here's my proposed solution (bear in mind this is ONLY for a single player game and none of these markings have any impact whatsoever on a MP game, aside perhaps from making organization easier):

*I will draw outlines on the map of different fighter regions (this data is available for Germany and I'll probably just use the same group regions from the Battle of Britain for the Allies).
*I will add an " * " to the name of one airfield within each region. These will be "hub airfields."

General Rules:
1. Fighter aircraft for both sides must remain grounded within their region until enemy contact (radar, scouts, or attack reports) suggest that the enemy is present in that region, or a neighboring region;
2. The only exception is that fighter aircraft MAY fly from their region to the Hub airfield of another region, but they may not attack targets while en route.
3. The fighters in the hub airfield are considered "rehomed" to that new region, and rule #1 applies to them.
4. Air and naval forces will follow dice rolls explained below.
5. The game requires two six-sided dice.

*The game will be played with two six-sided dice.

Aircraft Scouting via Dice Rolls - ONLY applies to units "scouting" for undetected forces. Otherwise, aircraft vectored to targets in or neighboring their region as described above.
*Any aircraft can be designated a "scout" on any turn and take off from an airfield, however the direction it will go is dependent on the sum of the dice roll.
*The sum of the dice roll determines the direction, as it will correspond to the number key on a keyboard. If you roll a sum of 7, you can head NW. If you roll 4, you head W, and so on.
*It is permissible to use the "mirror number" (so 7 and 3, 1 and 9, 4 and 6, 2 and 8) so that you don't send a scout into southern France pointlessly. You can pick between the two directions to do what would make sense.
*Rolling 5 allows you to pick the direction of your choice.
*Rolling 10-12 results in "engine trouble" and the aircraft must return to the nearest base.
*After each roll, the scouting aircraft must move 10 spaces in the direction of the roll. After 10 spaces, you may roll again, hoping for a change in direction.

Naval Movement (aircraft carrier, submarine, task force)
*Naval forces may scout for each other if no contact or combat in the previous turn (so if you had attacked a convoy on turn 3, you don't need to do this turn 4 - you can just do what a reasonable person would do and try to find it, but if you have no contact at all, your forces need to use these rules).
*The same dice rules apply:
*The sum of the dice roll determines the direction, as it will correspond to the number key on a keyboard. If you roll a sum of 7, you can head NW. If you roll 4, you head W, and so on.
*It is permissible to use the "mirror number" (so 7 and 3, 1 and 9, 4 and 6, 2 and 8) so that you don't send a scout into southern France pointlessly. You can pick between the two directions to do what would make sense.
*Because of the shorter MP of naval units, you can reroll after each movement space.

I have another idea. Instead of drawing maps. which is very time consuming and maybe for not great benefit, why not (and I've not updated to the newest OTR) use a static and regenerating unit to demark the boundaries at a few fixed points? In the old OTR there is a blank unit at the end of the industrial row (the ones with the industiral units, I, II, III)
Place this unit by the Cheat meu every five or six tiles (five to six tiles between, in a straight line), for testing purposes. What you are doing is very much a polish thing, but for test purposes, that might do the trick and save you a lot of headaches in the short term. That way if a major tweak is needed, you find out BEFORE you commit the work. If there's no unit slot, just army units. Do they alter the balance? A little, if moved, but if you're gonna cheese in a hot seat game against yourself, these rules are kinda redundant.

The thing I'm worried about though is the battle of the Atlantic. I'm not good AT all, in any scenario. This is the fairest, but also I know where all the sub and ships are. And when it comes to resources units like this, I don't play nice at ALL. Preferably for hotseat game, there would be Battle of the Atlantic (BoA) that allows you to change the rules of what your respective commands are allowed to know.

Now the thing is I really like the idea of a personal hotseat game. But I have no idea whatsoever on how to do it. Cause this could be revolutionary for me in scenarios where suddenly I could play a host of minor factions, like playing the Independents AND the Allies AND Japan and whoever isn't the Reds or Whites in the Russian Civil War scenarios. Or I could play both the US and the Soviets in Red Front, all the better if I can somehow use the cheat bug to add the Finns to the hotseat I'm playing around 1943 or something.

I just have never touched multiplayer and have zero ideas how to do this.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I still have the events. (let me know if you want them, and I'll get them to you.)

changelog

commented out the make CSV function

isGermanCity now returns false (instead of void) if the city is not German.

Germans can now build carriers only in German cities (i.e. not in occupied cities with military ports)

8 cities on continent (including one German City) required for Russian Front to open up.
specialNumbers.vistulaOderThreshold = 1500 -- point value for Allies to be given tech 76 Won't be given until after DDay
specialNumbers.continentCitiesForVistulaOder = 8 -- Allies must control this many cities (not airbases) on the European Mainland (continent 10) as a condition for the Russian Front to Open
specialNumbers.germanCitiesForVistulaOder = 1 -- Allies must have this many German (not occupied) cities (see isGermanCity function) for the Russian Front to open up

Airbases are destroyed upon capture, their tiles turn to rubble.

If the player decides not to build an airbase (after the B button is pressed), the next active unit will delete the airbase on the alternate map and restore the terrain from the airbase terrain to the previous terrain.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Still have the events, but I don't have any other files anymore.

changelog

Removed the special target events, by commenting out the relevant code. (Turns out I couldn't just change the start and end times.

Window added to the list of unitTypesToBeDeletedEachTurn. Since only the Allies use Window, and the Germans move after the Allies, this shouldn't cause problems. Let me know if the Germans use Window, and I've just missed it.

Have tied Critical Industry (Mass Transit) into the strategic bombing code, and only the five cities in question can build. Have not put in the bonuses/penalties yet.

Rules changed so that critical industry costs 1200 shields (no upkeep), SAM renamed to flak battery again. Will need new art for critical industry.

Are we sure we can't come up with an actual bonus for the refinery/factory critical industry. Maybe a free factory/refinery for a city without every turn (though that in particular seems powerful). I can certainly implement the existing proposal, but it is slightly more work than to check if building is there, if so apply bonus. Psychologically, it might feel better for the German player to lose a bonus, rather than being actively punished. It would also mean that all five industry can simply be rebuilt by the player, rather than having 2 be forcibly rebuilt.