Overpowered This, Overpowered That...

[xilr]

I've seen a lot of posts on things being overpowered. If I listed them, this thread might turn into individual debates on each subject.....

Frankly if your creative a lot of things can be "overpowered". The balance in FfH is already pretty good, I think people tend to find one thing that works for them, eventually they get good at it and figure its "overpowered". There are so many "overpowered" tactics its balanced.

I tried something totally different today I've never tried and it turned out to be just as "overpowered" (if not more so) that one of the popular "overpowered" tactics floating around the forum.

I'm not sure all the "overpowered" threads are necessary. FfH seems pretty good as is.

 

[Kael]

Part of the reason the team and I spend so much time on the forum (and we requested a forum in the first place) is to get feedback on balance issues. There are a huge amount of changes we've made based on community balance feedback, and the mod wouldn't be as well balanced as it is if it wasn't for all the "overpowered" posts we've had over the past 2 years.

So I welcome them. The only real risk would be if we overreacted and started to make changes based on every posted concern. But I tend to need a lot more info than just an individuals assesment before I start making changes. I think we error more on the side of not balancing than over balancing, so I dont think its a concern.

 

[TheGreatSteve]

Don't get me wrong, I love the "if everything is overpowered it's balanced" philosophy as well. The problem is that some things are just too overpowered in relation to the others.
Having really good strategies that exploit the synergies between a Civ and a religion, or a civic, or a tech, whatever, it's fine.
It's not fine when the strategy is so good that using any other is handicapping yourself.

 

[Demus]

i recon part of the "overpowered" strategies come from the fact that most players play singleplayer games. Right now, the AI hardly uses any partly-advanced strategies, and let's face it, if you've got a strategy and they don't, you're the one that's going to win.

 

[Ecofarm]

1) Guardian of Nature with forest cottages
2) Tsunami
3) Advanced start with Luch
4) Twincast with Spellstaff
5) Alazkan
6) Tsunami
7) Mimics (should be percentage to get FREE promotion, not 100%. When you are taking Combat4 for level 2, things are broke... Hmmm, level 3? What should I get.... oooo shock 2! C'mon)
8) City States/City Spam/Land Power Land Power
9) Warriors


.015

 

[Fafnir13]

Warriors? I've heard all the others (and agree with some) but how are warriors seen as overpowered? Or are you referring to warrior rushing? I could understand that.
Just curious.

 

[MalkutX]

It's not fine when the strategy is so good that using any other is handicapping yourself.

That's a good definition, which also goes to show why some of the things people point out aren't overpowered, just powerful. For instance:

1) Guardian of Nature with forest cottages

Whaaaat? People actually do that?

I guess that'd work. Wouldn't recommend it. Choosy elfs choose aristocracy/farmspam for massive cities/specialist economy! I thought that was the whole point of elves!

If they aren't Svartalfar, that is. The only specialists they need are specialists in pain.

 

[Arctic Circle]

And.. how do you manage to get twincast with spellstaff? You need the hero promotion to get twincast? Only if you are amurites and that nice event occurs and makes one of your mages a hero?

And Belseraphs do not need nerfing. While they are amazing in some way, they have a lack of brute force problem, and many strategies are a little complicated. The mimics is fine the way they are.

 

[3141592]

Exactly my thoughts, "when everyone's super no one is" (Weird little guy from the Incredible's.)

 

[Indiansmoke]

Warriors? I've heard all the others (and agree with some) but how are warriors seen as overpowered? Or are you referring to warrior rushing? I could understand that.
Just curious.

Warrior rush seems more effective in FFH2 than BTS. Due to slow early teching and lack of things for workers to do it makes more sense to build lots of warriors and go kill anyone that is close.

 

[Mailbox]

The problem with the "Everything is overpowered!" mindset is that many tech lines and civilizations are far inferior compared to other strategies. Telling the community to stop giving balance feedback, especially when the dev team is asking for it is arrogant to say the least.

 

[abculatter2]

And.. how do you manage to get twincast with spellstaff? You need the hero promotion to get twincast? Only if you are amurites and that nice event occurs and makes one of your mages a hero?

Grigori adventurers. They are VERY good spellcasters. They also get enchantment mana from palace.

 

[PacoDeth]

you forgot #10 Ecofarm, let me put it on there for you:

10) Tsunami

 

[abculatter2]

you forgot #10 Ecofarm, let me put it on there for you:

10) Tsunami

I agree that tsunami is overpowered, though if the map has no water, it's useless and underpowered.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I would like to add my congratulations to the FFH team for providing us with this wonderfull mod.

Some Imbalances are unavoidable in such a grand mod, but all in all the mod is great and I am enjoying it alot.

The only thing I personnaly miss from this mod is earlier magic. Earlier units that could cast spells and provide a valid alternative to building axes and horses would make sense and add to the magical atmosphere of the game from early on.

 

[marioflag]

Whaaaat? People actually do that?

I guess that'd work. Wouldn't recommend it. Choosy elfs choose aristocracy/farmspam for massive cities/specialist economy! I thought that was the whole point of elves!

If they aren't Svartalfar, that is. The only specialists they need are specialists in pain.

As Ljosalfar adopting Guardian of Nature you can easily get city reaching population 30 (it is like a Globe theatre per city for Ljosalfar) with a supereconomy due to the fact that every square produces lot of food (ancient forest) and money is produced by cottage.
I have not yet found a combination as much overpowered than that.

 

[Andreas Woolf]

you forgot #10 Ecofarm, let me put it on there for you:

10) Tsunami

Errr... I think he has it at number 6?

 

[mahazel]

As Ljosalfar adopting Guardian of Nature you can easily get city reaching population 30 (it is like a Globe theatre per city for Ljosalfar) with a supereconomy due to the fact that every square produces lot of food (ancient forest) and money is produced by cottage.
I have not yet found a combination as much overpowered than that.

Just try Mazatl from FF

 

[Ekolite]

I think that these individual strategies would be balanced if teh AI could use them too. One thing I do think needs work is the strength of the civs in comapasrrisson to each other. Now I know they are blanced on a macro-scale but still I find civs like the Elohim and the doviello far inferior to civs like the Luchuip and calabim.

 

[Niveras]

Errr... I think he has it at number 6?

And number 2. It's a bit of joke since Eco already listed it twice, and also to indicate that Tsunami is so overpowered that it must fill not one, or two, but three slots in a top 10 list of overpowered things.

Not that I agree, or care. Playing only single player, whether something is actually unbalanced doesn't really matter: the AI needs a lot more tweaks before it can exploit anything. And even then, when the AI is programmed to exploit such things, it will mean the dev team wanted that AI civ to play that way.