P666-02 Fix Another Trash Game

[Cam_H]

​

This is not a traditional succession game in that the full roster will play the same game and at intervals alternate between the least successful attempt and the most successful attempt as determined by a vote.

All players on the roster will be giving it their legitimate best shot. The roster is comprised of Prince and Monarch level players. End of round discussions will ideally provide some educational value.

The idea of fixing a succession game where the situation was regularly 'less than great' was Paul666's idea, and was floated in the Strategies and Tips forum. This format stemmed from that initial proposal. One successful 'trash game' has already been played that led to a Bismark-led Domination win on Prince.

The Settings

Leader: Montezuma (Aztecs)
Landmass Type: Standard Continents
Sea Level: Medium
Climate: Temperate
Size: Standard
Barbarians: Normal
Difficulty: Monarch
Speed: Normal
Victory: All types enabled however human player confined to variant
Version: 1.61 Vanilla

The Start

Mansa Musa (Mali) and Gandhi (India) are both included on the map. The other computer tribes are random.



The Variant

Players play in rounds to agreed check points. Games are compared and discussed. The opening game (below) is played for 40 turns. The agreed least successful (non-loss) game is then played by all for the next round. Games are compared, then the most successful game is played. The game chosen alternates between least and most successful per round.

The Aztecs can only win by Spaceship victory.


The Players

Roster:

Cabert
Cam_H
Mice
Pigswill
VuDu

The Play

Slow! Games to be posted at latest by Saturday morning 'American time'.

Round duration to be determined by agreement or despotic direction depending upon the mood ... about 40 turns per round.

No reloads. No WorldBuilder.

Rounds

Round One: A round where there was a lot of variation, Calavente's game was selected as the least successful, although few could deny that it shows a lot of developmental promise. Lack of immediate Copper and Horses could make for a difficult start, compounded by being 'sandwiched' between four rivals.

Round Two: Played to 875BC with the vote on the most successful submission that (again!) went to Armstrong's game that had good expansion while picking up Metal Casting with The Oracle, albeit heading also along the top path with Literature in sight.

Round Three: Played to 125AD with the vote for the least successful submission going to VuDu's game in a round where all submissions had a lot to offer in their own respective ways. VuDu's was one of the few that have six cities in the empire, with a strong percentage of land area.

Round Four: Played to 1000AD with the most successful submission going to Cabert's game where there was conflict in the north and comfort in the south.

Round Five: Played to 1400AD with the least successful submission going to VuDu's game.

Round Six: Played to the end of 1650AD where the most successful submission again went to Cabert's game where we took control of a large landmass percentage but also are very competitive technologically.

Round Seven: Played to 1820, where VuDu's game was the one chosen as the platform for our final round where space is the next frontier! Apollo is nearly built and we're on the way to Robotics.

Round Eight: All players to take this one to completion.

 

[cabert]

got it
It's only 40 turns up to 850BC?
in the first thread there was a 2400BC deadline.
Are you sure about the 850BC?

 

[pigswill]

Got it too (must be contagious).
Assuming 40 years per turn up to 1000bc or so that's about right; however I'd rather have a rounded year than rounded turns; maybe stop at 1000bc rather than 850bc.

 

[mice]

40 turns is 2400 BC. Normal speed.

 

[Cam_H]

Excuse me for a moment while I just go and

I've already played to 850BC! I thought I was doing much better this time.

I'll disqualify myself for this round, but might play a restart for the heck of it.

 

[cabert]

well, if we all go for 850BC, it's no problem!
but if we do, it must be trash game first!

 

[Cam_H]

No, it was my screw up. We should stick to the plan.

I have replicated my turns from the log of my 'first attempt'.

 

[VuDu]

I'll go first! Here's my save and log.

Spoiler :

4000- gold from the goody hut; researching polytheism; going to build barracks for a bit before switching to a worker so the worker isn't standing around with nothing to do
3880- map from a goody hut
3800- masonry from a goody hut; met JC (close North)
3560- met Cyrus (NNW or SSW?); founded Hinduism; realized I forgot to switch my build to worker a few turns ago so switched now; researching animal husbandry
3440- met MM (SSE)
3320- scout from a goody hut
3200- finished animal husbandry; started mining
3000- finished mining; started priesthood
2880- met Roosevelt (NNW or SSW?); finished barracks; started warrior
2800- warrior finished; I'm eyeing up the stone to the East and marble to the North as next city sites; started building settler
2760- finished priesthood; started bronzeworking
2480- finished bronzeworking; no bronze uncovered so far, but have uncovered a large area; a scout is headed to check West for bronze on the edge of the continent; Mansa has ivory and will soon have horses; switched to slavery
2400- finished chopping one forest just outside of fat cross to help the settler along (due next turn)

I sent the warrior east to see if anything was in the water near the stone - he's still close enough to meet the settler at the border to guard him those last few steps .

 

[Calavente]

whoa..
only one day and 2 people have finished...

I had forgotten that 40 early turns are played waaaay quicker than 50turns around the AD... or the post 1500's.. myabe it's due to the much lower number of things to do and micromanage.....

I think I will find the time tomorrow to play 30 or so min .. so maybe it will be enough for the first round. (I hope)

EDIT : I'm starting now... I'm currently in the 2700BC. it seems my save will be present for this rounds "trash game award"

 

[Calavente]

here is my save

I could spare the necessary 1h30

so the log events ...

Spoiler :

-4000. settled inpace : only way to keep the three ressources... scout goes south, go for POLY, let the hut be until culture expend (I read that it had the best ratio for poping huts). build warrior : we are in monarch here !!! no easy barbs as in prince.. or so I heard.

-3920 : hut gives a map south west ... see another hut : goto hut !
-3840 : initial hut giveas also a map south east with the border expand, discovers a hut west and one too far in the south west.
-3800 : 3rd hut gives a map : north with another hut.
-3680 : 4th hut givs 32gold.. buddhism founded in a far land.
-3600 : Cyrus' scout push his nose in from the north

-3560 : Founded Hinduhism in tenotchitlan... starts MINING : goooold !!! . Romans archer comes into view, north too.

-3520 : warrior is builded, make a worker. scout is now north, pops another map ...
but-but-but ??? isn't it roma ? youpi !!!
once in a while you get some usable maps from the huts !! "I can see inside RoOma !! I can see inside RoOOoMa !!! + I see some marble. scout goes south east.

-3320 : Discovered Mining go Agri (for farming the FP to be able to work the gold mines). warrior killed a panthere some few turns before.. meet the scout. Here I didn't went east enough to uncover the last black dot in which VuDu found some stone... silly me. and the scout goes south west to race for the last known hut..

-3120 : culture expand nb 2 in Tenotchitlan.
-3080 : Agriculture: go BW !!
-3040 : worker is done : build settler, gota dig a mine into that gold... "goOold!!! "

-3000 : ?? maybe 1 turn wrong or so?? I won the race to the hut !!! got another scout!!! twice the exploration power !! goes north. the former one tries to escape the lion. I notice that the river surrounding tenochti- tenotich- tenotchitlan are not connected .. I am really going to change those silly aztec names !!!

-2920 : Ohoh !!! here comes mansa mussa !!!
-2840 : and roozy !!!! Hi USA !! how are you ? oh me fine, thank you... I won't kill you now yknow, you seems to live too far in the south .. happy you!! oh, tell the story to your friend mansa mussa !! Meanwhile the scout plays 'hide and seek' with three lions. I'm not enough of a fool to try to make him fight if he can flee.

-2680 : Bronze working !!! "Do you want to change into slavery? yes ! I want to go slavery" I love this spiritual thingy.. ohoh ... no bronze save in the far far west ... glups. Go AH for farming the pig and try to see horses. and I found cyrus's estate.
-2600 : stumbled on ceasar's second city.. I have to really speed mine!! but currently I didn't have yet chopped as I have many things to do.
-2520 : made a mistake : sent worker to 2nd gold mine (1t) instead of pig (1t) and then AH in 1t ... lost 2 worker turns stupidly!!

-2480 : AH !! no horses ... ohoh.. there is one herd of stupid horses : between roma and the second roman city ... as if I needed that !! so how to say this : no copper... no horses... I'm in trouble.. what eases me is that us players are all in the same trouble !!! So go : Iron working !!
-2400 : end.

that's it..
overall not a bad start IMO, even if a bit under the AI's score, no very interesting goody huts.. but... luck is a b**ch. I have not found yet where to place my second city... (maybe somewhere hinted by VuDu's play ..)

I'm positive I won't be able to access internet from tuesday evening until next sunday evening.. so I won't vote..

and you know what : I thrill to play the next round... just to see what is behind the next hill !!!
see you later (alligator) and with a super huper cool trash game to salvage !!! (I loved this alligator thing from the time I first heard it. hihi (currently wanted a smiley, but limited to 15 pics...)

 

[armstrong]

Reporting for duty! Cam, did you have a save from 2400 BC (or close thereabouts?) If so you could submit that.

 

[Cam_H]

Armstrong,

Yes - I have a save at 2400BC.

No - I can't submit my save as I'm 300 kilometres from my Civ computer. My work is in a rural area but I live (play Civ ) in the city on Fri-Sun. I'll be able to post on everyone's Thursday but Mice's, my trans-Tasman chum.

A quick preliminary summary:

Spoiler :

The most exciting thing was having a scout run around finding huts. I popped three techs from five huts! I have produced barely anything, including a civil defense!

 

[pigswill]

Another submission for the trash game.

I thought about heading for an early religion as Monte starts with mysticism but then decided I would try to get a religion later and concentrate on locating metals early on because even if therewasn't any metal around I'd still have access to jaguars through IW.

Spoiler :

In the event I started with worker, warrior, settler as my initial builds. Techwise I popped AH in 3760 which was lucky as I could then work the pigs early, 5 food making it possible to work gold and still grow. Otherwise I went mining, bronze (no copper nearby), iron (2 sources nearby), poly, priesthood.
I also popped masonry and two lots of gold from four huts. Founded second city and started mining iron just before 2400bc deadline.

 

[cabert]

wow!
it looks bad for me this time!

I'll post my submission somewhat later this week, but went almost the same way as calavente, had 0 luck with huts, had my scout eaten by a lion, and lost sight of my own strat
I'm the only one going for copper? Maybe that's because i'm stupid!Jaguar needs no metal, and iron working is necessary for jungle clearing = copper is useless in this game...

 

[mice]

I popped Archery and a scout . Here's the save.

Spoiler :

Built a scout in Tetih.... the capital, in order to build up population, which popped another scout, but still couldn't find copper.

Built an archer to continue the population grow and to work the gold. Teched to Pottery for cottages. Next will be to animal husbandry for chariots from the lack of copper.

Didn't go for a religion but plan to use the aggressive trait to take one later. Julius probaly the first target before he gets iron, Mansa for later when he has techs to extort and possibly a shrine. Or use him for trading later into the game. Will be interested in advice from others about this. Might need to let Julius live so Mansa has a second civ to trade with.

 

[Cam_H]

Here's my save.

Spoiler :

Montezuma - A Religious Nutter

I figured that in the spirit of the game 'and what not', that we should play to the leader's strengths (which is why 'someone' vetoed my Genghis Cultural idea ) so I chased Polytheism (suspecting that Gandhi at least would go after Buddhism).

I popped Masonry from a goodie hut, and Monotheism was all of a sudden a real option. Popping Masonry largely knocks out my Stonehenge-based CS slingshot idea (still a possibility if avoiding Monarchy), but it will almost certainly lead to founding Judaism, and Organised Religion isn't the worst civic in the world either. Do I? Do I? Yeah! <Image removed>

- Lots of ! Starting location.

This is another really good city site for our Capital (after P666-01), and aside from some looming issues from the Flood Plains, to get two Gold tiles and a Pig River-Hill is imho great.

A quick food count; <Image removed>

Lots of possibilities. Five forests means one can go without affecting .

We'll be after a Spaceship, so while I suspect we're in the northern temperate band of our continent (as per 'resource arrows') and will probably have a tribe to our north (later proved to be wrong ... two tribes!). If we like the Space Elevator - it should work around here.

Technology

The natives helped us. As noted I popped Masonry on my second hut, and got Fishing on my third. At this point Fishing was hardly a priority, but I'll take it. As also discussed, I did Polytheism > Monotheism for the religions. Normally I head directly for Bronze Working, but Hinduism and Judaism were just there in front of me.

The chase for religions did distract me from other pursuits. Unlike Mice, I didn't pop Archery, and the lack of Copper has made Iron Working / Iron? / Jaguars a priority, as the Barb's will be visiting soon enough. I'm still working on my second Gold Mine, but the tech' rate will get a hurry along when it's finished.

City Management

With no decent units to build, and tons of Flood Plains, and few tile-development Technologies (Hunting, Mysticism, Polytheism, Masonry, Monotheism), getting a Worker out was also going to be 'only so' useful. I opted to just work the Flood Plains and the two Oasis tiles while putting 1 per turn into Stonehenge, although I was tempted to at least make a start on Barracks - decision? Perhaps.

Once the city got to maximum population, I switched to a Worker (having now got Mining) and then a Settler (current build).

If Barbarians were to arrive, I have a large population that can easily whip a couple of Warriors - but I hope it won't get to that. I can also whip the Settler that's in my queue now and exploit the extra yield that could overflow to a Warrior.

Summary

I've got two religions, which is great.

I've only got the capital, which is not great.

It's a big city for this stage of the game, which is great.

My science development has not provided me with a good range of Worker or Military technologies, which is not great.

I've popped some technologies, and have a Medic Scout , which is great.

The three tribes that we've met all have Ancient or Classical Era UUs, and we seem to be stuck between them, which is not great.

I'm looking forward to seeing the other saves, and have checked out the ones already posted.

 

[armstrong]

Here's my save. I played three days ago, so I actually need to go take a look at the save to remember what all happened. I remember my luck was better than some, but not as good as others. I think it would be sad if our "trash" game is decided by the luck of the huts...

I'll post some comments tomorrow.

 

[cabert]

Here's my save.


I'm looking forward to seeing the other saves, and have checked out the ones already posted.

don't you cry your heart out that your game won't be continued
I think we can safely say that your game won't be the trash game.
I wish I could say the same!

I forgot my USB key at home, so won't post the save right now (the turnlog is saved on this key too so no turnlog right now)

But I can tell my game looks like yours but without luck .
Ho, there is a plus part for my game: I have found copper, and have a unescorted settler going towards this largely useless spot.
I finally think this settler should settle somewhere on a river instead...

Spoiler :

summary of my game:
I found hinduism,
Popped map, map, gold, gold, and her, hum, gold?
Explored a lot, then got tired and moved my scout in open land = eaten by a lion!
Found copper! Since my game look like a trash game to me, i can tell you where it is! On the coast, straight to the west of our initial position.
I've started the Oracle, and i'm researching AH (pigs! Our hindu nation shall eat pork, no beef! maybe we could eat some horses?).
After that i planned to go for writing then CoL and CS slingshot (yes, on monarch level, without being industrious! Our last game made me greedy ).

Good part :
- having a religion and being set on the oracle is good (we need a Great Prophet!). If we work the gold, we could manage the CS slingshot.
- having a settler out there is good, we can still make good use of him

Bad part :
- our military is 1 warrior
- the warrior isn't even well placed to open the way for the settler
- we only have one worker (somehow, i forgot to go on worker hunting )
- we are surrounded by so many AIs i fear we'll be boxed in fast! (is it really a bad thing? It implies less barbs on our back + cities you don't have to build )

I was the one saying that a settler without escort makes a trash game.
Now here is my trash game

I'll post the save later today, when i'm back home.

 

[Cam_H]

I think we can safely say that your game won't be the trash game.
I wish I could say the same!

I've got three things going for me, and a heap against ...

On the plus side;

• Reasonable technological development (given some hut-luck)
• Two founded religions
• A large capital

Credit to Pigswill and Armstrong though for getting up second cities, and I think everyone had made good progress in somewhat different ways - good scouting, interesting tech' choices, etc.

Cabert - you've got to post a shocker or else it's going to be hard to pick the trash out of this round!

We haven't heard from Petrucci for a while now, and otherwise (aside from Cabert) everyone has posted their games. I'll PM Petrucci, but if he's not replying soon we may have to invite a new Noble-Prince level player ...

 

[cabert]

I've got three things going for me, and a heap against ...

On the plus side;

• Reasonable technological development (given some hut-luck)
• Two founded religions
• A large capital

Credit to Pigswill and Armstrong though for getting up second cities, and I think everyone had made good progress in somewhat different ways - good scouting, interesting tech' choices, etc.

Cabert - you've got to post a shocker or else it's going to be hard to pick the trash out of this round!

We haven't heard from Petrucci for a while now, and otherwise (aside from Cabert) everyone has posted their games. I'll PM Petrucci, but if he's not replying soon we may have to invite a new Noble-Prince level player ...

i didn't read anywhere that Petrucci agreed to play this game, so I assume there is one free spot (for this round i did the noob's job, so we don't need to go back to it )

and, what do you mean by "shocker" ? (must be some english expression i don' know yet?)