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Pan-Asia - symmetry for symmetry's sake?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Homusubi, Nov 10, 2014.

  1. Homusubi

    Homusubi Lafcadio Hearn Wannabe

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    Seriously, Firaxis. Do you really think that Asia, given its current situation, has any chance of uniting? It seems a bit idealistic to me to say the least. Japan, for example, would (I hate to say this, but it's true) rather be part of America than China. (Of course they'd rather be their own country than either. The government, along with a significant proportion of the people, just hate China THAT MUCH over there).

    It reminds me of the Ebonheart Pact, the one-size-fits-all third faction in Elder Scrolls Online, which presumes (warning: TES lore ahead) Dunmer and Argonians would team up to fight some random zombies in someone else's land, despite the fact that Dunmer routinely enslave Argonians. And no, it doesn't look like Argonia was forced to join the Pact. But I digress. The nations of eastern Earth currently hate each other even more than those of eastern Tamriel, or so it seems.

    This has, more than anything else, stopped me from buying Beyond Earth as of today.

    Why, Firaxis, WHY?
     
  2. Ryoga

    Ryoga King

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    In Star Trek the whole world is united, do you hate the whole franchise because of that?
     
  3. Tolina

    Tolina trust the pillars with your s e c r e t s

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    This is baffling. With this game still being unfinished, filled with bugs and requiring more polish, what truly ticks you off and is the implausibility of Asia uniting?
     
  4. Ugjer

    Ugjer Chieftain

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    So, even though knowing as close to nothing about The Great Mistake as possible, you still think that's enough information for you to judge about how plausible this alliance is?

    I had to make an account to ask you this. :p
     
  5. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    Heh. I guess the PAC's propaganda really is effective. (Psst. PAC doesn't cover all of Asia.)
     
  6. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    Japan should be part of Polystralia
     
  7. forty2j

    forty2j King

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    A little over half a century ago, America was among Japan's fiercest enemies. A little over a century before that, America was warring with.. Canada. What on Earth makes you think that the geopolitical affinities of 2014 have anything at all to do with how they might look in this one representation of a future many centuries from now?
     
  8. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    the price of argonian freedom was partication in the EP. Birds and dunmer have had a historical feud akin to the Jews and Palestinians but dispute that can realize that the EP is the only chance at survival
     
  9. Fabio1701

    Fabio1701 King

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    I thought we discussed this topic to death pre release. Its 200 years in the future, and past not one but two world changing events. What does the Asian situation now have to do with anything? Did anyone consider the EU was possible during the 18th century? Hell, all of Asia could have died of plague an be repopulated by Laos for all you know.
     
  10. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    A few facts

    Japan Is currently joined with China,.. both are members of the UN

    That should illustrate what the PAC is... it is stronger than the UN, but it is not the US.. it is barely even the EU

    It sounds like Japan and Korea cooperate with the PAC, but are not full fledged members (its been mentioned there is more of their story to tell.)
     
  11. Ugjer

    Ugjer Chieftain

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    Charles-Irénée Castel de Saint-Pierre did. :)

    But most people would've probably laughed at the idea of such a strong cooperation between French and Prussians.
     
  12. Fabio1701

    Fabio1701 King

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    :lol:

    Indeed. I am sure others even further in the past thought of a united cooperative Europe but in the days before scifi was a popular culture thing these notions of future sociopolitical progress would have been dismissed as madness by the uneducated masses. Much like the OP is dismissing the PAC.
     
  13. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    The Palestine conflict is in fact a very recent development, but anyway... If US was unable to back it's allies in SEA, I could easily see China engaging in (more than the current amount of) gunboat diplomacy to subjugate the region.
     
  14. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    Because Japan isn't joined with China unless you want it to be. What exactly happened to Earth is up to you. However, in their Great Mistake video (which is "unofficial" but what they used to defined it for their background stories), they suggest that Korea and Japan might not be part of the PAC (jump to 25:20 for that).
     
  15. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    This is true, perhaps I should rephrase; the Nords and Dumners Feud is similiar to the feud of the descendants of Ismael and Issac.
     
  16. Jacozilla

    Jacozilla Warlord

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    1. Why assume Japan joined the PAC peacefully or even wanted to?
    E.g. In WWII Japan forcefully integrated various asian countries into its 'Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere' which has as much to do with co-prosperity as join at gunpoint is "volunteering"

    Far more likely is China swallowed Japan and neighbors as part of a new reemergence of dynastic ambitions

    2. Over their mutual thousands of years of history, from pre-unification China and feudal Japan to more modern times - China (with Korea) has tried to invade Japan multiple times and Japan (successfully) invaded its neighbors multiple times.

    Based on history, it's not only a bad assumption in #1, but far far more likely this China led PAC in BE is simply the new Soviet style leader by force of the regional asian countries
     
  17. kirbdog

    kirbdog King

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    Purely based on the opening video, "I would hop in any spacecraft willing to take me" seems like the global consensus of the population. Therefore it wouldn't matter how much the countries of the citizens were at loggerheads. If the invitation were extended to people in any given country, some citizens of that country would be ready to go.

    (And, yes, that is granting the premise that the countries remain hostile in the future.)
     
  18. cakes

    cakes Prince

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    the title suggests they're co-operating rather than that they are 'united' per se. maybe the great mistake put things in perspective and they were like 'ok, we need to co-operate if we want to survive'
     
  19. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    70 years ago Europe was very un-united. They called that a world war. They're pretty united now. This game is 200 years later. What makes you an expert on what people who's grandparents have not even been born yet will do or feel?
     
  20. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer Prince

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    Agreed with the OP that right now, it is hard to imagine Japan teaming with China over the U.S. (if they teamed with anyone at all. They are certainly strong enough in science, economy and population to go it alone.) For that matter, Korea is pretty split on that same alliance question, with, you know, a ton of land mines and the most fortified military border in the world. Furthermore, most conflicts of that intensity go very deep and very far back. The U.S. is a young nation and almost unique in its habit of making alliances with former enemies so quickly. Japan and China have longer memories.

    BUT

    1.) As has been said, this is 200 years in the future. We have no idea what even happened. We don't know, for instance, if there's a Britain anymore in any way that matters. Things change.

    2.) These identities are less cultural/governmental than they are corporate/financial. And money has a way of bringing individuals together beyond national enmity.
     

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