Paradigm Shift Reboot! Queen of Culture 2

[Ometjabbe]

It isn't entirely impossible that there is copper to the extreme south. I would scout there to be sure. Furthermore, I'm still for taking the gamble. I mean, what's the chance of having no copper and no iron on a decent sized continent with 2 leaders?

Also, I think with this high food capital and the imperialistic trait whipping a couple of cheap settlers to put pressure on hatty early on is something I would definetly try. Because she's not nearly as likely to attack you in the beginning as someone like shaka or monty. Go for it!

 

[harusame]

Thats just wrong... The idea is that since you are running so many artists you get very low hammer output so you can't afford to build them in reasonable time, you also can't afford to whip since it is just better to run more artists for longer... Also the gp farm arent ever going to come close to generate as much cpt as the commerce cities... Hermitage should always go in highest cpt(cept when highest cpt is going to finish so much before the two other cities anyways, idealy you wan't all cities to finish roughly the same by making the slower cities speed up with bombing...).

The idea of culture is spending the time building! That is how you get fast culture wins! How many temples you have before 1AD is the thing that most affect your victory date... Only +4/5 food from sushi so not sure it is worth it though, hence better to switch off research after liberalism. Make hatty's cap your GP farm hence you need to take her out asap... getting hbr seems like rather a waste, but then again so does iw...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232250
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=278350
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171130

Here are some threads about culture, there are more out there though.

hermitage gives extra +2GAP
the commerce cities usually have already 3-4 cathedrals anyway
i usually build NE+Hermitage+SC in GA farm

commerce cities have usually no problem generating culture

building hermitage is easy, with universal suffrage (mids)

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Yeah, I'll probably go for NE + Herm in the capital (or in Hatty's, whichever is best for GA).

Probably won't build any other National Wonders apart from Moai, Forbidden Palace (and that's just a maybe with a continent as small as this) and Heroic Epic (for GA points in best production legendary). Unlikely to build enough universities for Oxford, if I do that will go in the best commerce city.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

OK, I have played the next round, uploading images now.

There was a kick myself moment, but I needed to get that out the way early on I shouldn't play Civ when I wake up early with no coffee, only tea, in the house.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Cathy Queen oof Culture 2: Round 2 - to 1320BC

Bit of Rexing this round, my first settler was ready to go. I'm going for the blue site on a dotmap someone did, I know it is 1 off the coast but it looked the best city site to me.

I need to take a high risk strategy here, I only have a worker to escort my settler (there is a warrior a bit further south). I saw wolves though so it could all end in tears...

The gang:

Scout checks whether the horse site has any seafood... it doesn't. I miss the blindingly obvious here, it's early in the morning

Worker and warrior ensure it is safe for the settler to advance. Risky with wolves and maybe panthers around.

Scout has a peek at Hatty's land

A workboat is done in the capital, need a warrior before the people complain about no protection.

I founded my second city. Still oblivious to what seems obvious now.

Clams R Us

Judaism is founded 2480BC (I think), let's hope it is Hatty.

Wheel is in, worried about barbs now. Go for archery since there is no copper and I didn't settler the horse site.

Go for it Hatty! A holy city, for me? You are too kind

Whoah, lions, better promote my scout to guerilla I.

Animal cruelty in action!

The scout wins.

Warrior done, another workboat.

The scout feels hassled by wildlife, so sensibly runs away.

Looking in the icy tundra to see if there is any copper.

After the warrior, start building a barracks in 2nd city

I decide to skip pottery for now, writing next. I want a library in the capital for scientists since it has a lot of food. I'm not going to cottage yet since I only have 1 worker

This looks dangerous. Barbs have begun to appear, so I am glad I got archery.

The warrior is killed.

My worker improved the gold, but he should really have built a farm on the forest next to the Oasis since I can't work it. I also confounded my stupidity by not building a road on the gold tile before moving to the forest.

I shouldn't try and think in the morning

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Cathy Queen of Culture 2: Round 2 (part 2) - to 1320BC

2nd workboat finished, go for an archer.

This is what I should have done before improving the gold.

Hatty hasn't claimed this site, looks OK, 2E of the rice.

Time for another settler I think.

Meanwhile, the archer has been exploring south where the warrior got killed by an archer, and this looks a cahnce to get some XP, since I haven't got a barracks in my capital.

Odds are pretty good, and I win.

I can finally work the goldmine which does wonders for my research rate.

More baddies, the enemies of civilisation!

Run away...

With the chop for the farm I complete the barracks and start a worker.

Normally I would go pottery or iron working now, but with the stone and a chance to build the Pyramids I go masonry.

Time to build a library in the capital since it has a lot of food.

With a little help from the whip of course

During the revolt the worker stays productive by building a road towards the stone.

But, there's more bad guys so I halt the worker for a bit and do a quick archer (+barracks)

Can't whip a library in the capital, so I let it grow to unhappiness before whipping.

The barb moves away, still building an archer though.

Time to whip the library..

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Cathy Queen of Cuture 2 - 2nd round (part 3): to1320BC

I built a 3rd settler with the whip overflow from the library fairly quick, and I found my 3rd city near the sheep. This is the kick myself move, if I had settled on the plains hill I would have fish in my BFC.

So I go to work, disgusted. This is why you should scout better

Ok, so 1NW would have been miles better.

Something doesn't seem right here...

At least I am ready to build a quarry when masonry comes in... timing

I go for sailing next because I only have 1 worker still. I need the stone to be shipped over to Pyramids site.

I think the Great Wall and Stonehenge get built around about now. Building another settler anyway...

I get open borders with Hatty

And I'm surprised to see only 2 archers defending her capital, which looks like her only city

New archer is off exploring

And wins...

There's no more land on the continent, so this is it. Hatty must die...

Right, my big mistake (drum rol), apart from settling the fish city with no fish, is not noticing that the horse city is actually pretty good with the flood plains. I can whip this settller now and get there within 7 turns, I think that is the best plan.

Hatty seems to be doing a 1CC, perhaps she is building the pyramids , that would be INSANE. I'd rather build them myself though, if you capture a wonder it has no culture.

So, settle the horse city, tech IW, hit Hatty hard I think. She might get a GP and bulb Christianity in the meantime.

It's either HBR or construction after IW I think, Hatty doesn't seem to be doing anything. This is a mad game...

Here's the save, I know I made mistakes in this round

 

[Gliese 581]

I would settle the plains hill your archer is on asap if Hatty does not beat you to it. 2 gold, the horse two farmed FPs and a plains forest at size 5.

Btw that's a sick capital Hatty's got!

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Yeah I know, Hatty's capital is far better than mine.

I can be at the horse site in 7 turns. I may build a few archers and DoW her if I see a settler heading that way.

EDIT: But it seems like she isn't bothering to build one Unless one is on it's way through the fog.

like I said, this is a mad game.

 

[Gliese 581]

If you settle the spot before Hatty and you don't plan to attack her for some time yet I would whip a library there as first build. You'll need to get to 3rd culture ring asap if you don't want to lose the 2nd flood plains to her culture.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Ok some more morning thoughts about this game.

I'm going to whip the settler and claim the horse site ASAP. After the worker completes in St. Pete's I will build archers non-stop. If I see Hatty approaching with a settler (with 2 archer escort normally) I will DoW her, hopefully that will mean her settler turns back.

3rd city will start building the pyramids. Moscow will build a galley in case of barb ships, then build a barracks.

Once the horse city is on line I will build chariots too.

Iron workng next, hopefully I have some. If Hatty only has 1 city I may skip construction and just spam axes and swords, with more cities I should be able to use a big stack to take her capital. She has lots of food there so I expect she will whip walls and more archers though.

Depending on whether I skip construction or not, I think the tech path during the war with Hatty should be CoL beeline to try and get Confucianism. Then aesthetics and head for music, with a detour for polytheism so I can build the parthenon.

I would like 9 cities but some will have to be junk cities that just build a temple with a landmass this size.

Good sites seem to be Hatty's capital (obviously), Horse/Flood Plains/Gold site, and 2E of the rice. I can get a marginal city with the cows SE of the capital too. That makes 7. I could build a lame city to claim the southern fish, then I am struggling for the last one.

EDIT: GP plan, scientist builds an academy, then another GS to bulb philosophy with. I should be able to switch to caste system after CoL since maintenance shouldn't be too bad on an island this size, I won't need many troops after Hatty has gone, barbs shouldn't be a problem either. Then artists all the way.

 

[Ometjabbe]

Nicely played! I love it when a plan comes together!

Iron Working seems to be the best idea. Not only will you know if you have iron at your disposal, but you also are able to see if Hatty has any, and decline her access to it by pillaging.

IW can be researched while you are building archers that can keep the pressure on hatty. I would declare if she's sending out any settler. The earlier you secure her capital the better and the earlier you are able to make it a GA farm (look at all that food!).

As soon as she's wasted you can take over her religion and take the first steps on the route to cultural victory (temples, drama, music, CoL).

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Well there were a few big mistakes (not seeing the horse city potential, not scouting the sheep city so I didn't see the fish, mainly).

I definitely have a plan now though, will probably play tomorrow night (probably no more morning play before going to work for me ).

Do you think Priesthood before Code of Laws (I think you can get it through Currency as well?).

Code of Laws before Music? I expect I'll need to do that to get the religion...

Do you think Hatty is building the 'Mids? I didn't check whether she got Stonehenge for extra GP points, she can run a priest off an Obelisk and with that much food... Do you think she might bulb Theocracy if I leave her alone for a bit (i.e. if I get the Horse city before she does)?

I am really looking at her capital and thinking "that should be Cathy's" though...

 

[Ometjabbe]

Do you think Priesthood before Code of Laws

Not really sure if you can get it through currency, but currency wouldn't be my priority; I don't think you really need it with all that gold. Anyway, I think caste system has some synergy with representation of the 'mids, because of the unlimited artists will be producing beakers.

Do you think Hatty is building the 'Mids?

. Seeing that she only has one city you could try to see if there are any units coming out of the city. If that's the case, she's not building the Pyramids. I don't think it's likely that she is. With only 1 city she's more likely to produce another settler or at least more defense then 2 archers...

I expect I'll need to do that to get the religion...

can't you just take over her Judaism?

I would attack her as fast as possible, before she's able to grow further.

Whatever decision you'll make, you will have enough gold resources on this island to greatly enhance your research rate. So Mine that gold asap

I am really looking at her capital and thinking "that should be Cathy's" though...

I fully agree!

 

[ParadigmShifter]

OK, I have played the next round (up to 500BC). I don't think I'll do the write-up tonight though.

Hatty is mad, preferring to convert all my cities to Juadaism before building a settler... I claimed the Horse site and am about to claim the best Iron site (out of 2 available). Building chariots, building Pyramids, researched maths, built an academy. Hatty also built the Temple of Solomon in her capital, so that's an added bonus when I take it (she also has stonehenge there).

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Cathy Queen of Culture 2 - Round 3 (to 500BC)

OK, a bit of preparations for war this round, nothing too exciting.

I whipped the settler to claim the horse site immediately.

That meant I had to sack both scientists so the academy will be a little delayed.

My archer has a look to see if any settlers of Hatty's are on the way

I check Hatty's diplo screen, if she has founded another city I would see it here (which would also imply that another landmass is reachable via galleys. But she hasn't

Sailing is done, Iron Working next I think. It takes longer now I sacked the scientists in Moscow.

Finished my stone quarry, now back to the gold to build a road there. Now I have sailing and this city has a road to the coast, all the other cities will get the +1 happiness bonus.

My scout has a look to see if Hatty has any settlers on the way, but no, just missionaries to convert my cities

I wonder what Hatty has been doing so I check the wonder screen. She has built stonehenge for a kick-off

Settler has reached the next city site (with gold and horses), so the worker starts to build a road connecting the cities.

I was building a barracks in Moscow but go for a galley instead since I heard the barb galleys are a lot more frequent with the new patch.

Judaism spreads in St. Petersburg, thanks to Hatty's missionary. I don't change yet, I don't need the happiness at the moment.

I kill a few barb warriors here and ther, giving some archers valuable XP.

The worker is built here, so I start spamming archers.

Still no settlers for Hatty, another missionary though, she must be mad.

So I claim the only horses on the Island. Hatty really dropped the ball here.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Cathy Queen of Culture 2 - Round 3 - part 2 - to 500BC

OK, th city on the coast has finished his worker which will improve the surrounding tiles. I start on the Pyramids straight away.

Improving the food source (the sheep) is the first priority.

Galley is done to guard my seafood, so it's continue with the barracks. Note my worker building a road to connect St. Petersburg to Moscow as well.

And Iron Working is done. I go for maths next, so I can chop the pyramids (my workers are going to pre-chop all the forests near the city that is building them).

After that I can go for currency and code of laws. I may have to sneak pottery in there since if I need to whip an army that would be beneficial.

I start building a pasture to turn the hardy tundra horses into mughty chariots.

This is the Iron situation. Hatty has neither copper nor iron, and no horses now. The best site gets the fish, the iron and the cows. It's still only marginal though. The land isn't great.

Hatty gets a Great Prophet...

I start to pre-chop forests around Pyramidsville. When maths comes in I can shop them quickly and get the 50% bonus for chopping.

After an archer completes, build another.

Hatty builds the Jewish shrine, which is good for when I take her city. Hopefully she may pop another and bulb Theology for Christianity before she dies

This city is now connected up and horses are go, and I built a barracks, so chariots it is then

//Need to upload more screenies to photobucket now

--INTERMISSION--

 

[bestje]

how has she only managed to settle 1 city in 100 turns?
what is Hatty doing?
thats got to be the most irrational AI play I have ever seen

EDIT: correction the most irrational AI play i've ever seen was Monty attacking my Modern era tanks and infantry with Jaguars and catapults.
but everyone knows Monty is insane whilst Hatty is supposed to be sensible

 

[ryzax]

i wonder how many chariots you would need to kill a city-garrison promoted archer on a 60% culture defense...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm thinking bring about 8 or so, plus some swords when I hook the iron up.

EDIT: Messed up the update a bit, the last picture is actually the last screeny I took, so I missed out quite a bit. You can see Hatty has another city in that pic, on the gold hill. I'll do the inbetween bits write up tonight. Not much happened though.