Patch D lairs

[sputnik323]

I dont want to turn this into a bash on lairs because I love having them. i just want to put in my observations of patch d lairs.
I explored around 10 lairs -some multiple times within 150 turns. Every single result was bad, I lost units, and other units got all the possible diseases -making the unit as good as dead. the friend i was playing multi with said that he just wanted to turn lairs off because all they do is kill your units.
-suggestion - add smaller good results that are equally likely for the small bad ones like disease - 10 gold, parts of the map, ect. along with the random really good and bad. or - place guardians over the lairs which do not move, and have more good results as a bonus for killing the guardians.

 

[Kael]

The chances are as follows:

10% chance of getting a boss monster
30% chance of a bad result
30% chance of a neutral result
20% chance of a good result
10% chance of a rare good result

 

[sputnik323]

man ... guess I was just freaking unlucky - Im not going to vegas for a while! - every result but 2 were bad, 1 was neutral and 1 was a boss spawn - out of 13 lair searches.

 

[CockyWizard]

Why are there greater chances for bad than good when they are spawning monsters that we need to kill anyways? I mean, are we not suppose to try to get rid of lairs and barrows anymore? It just seems like now it's a case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

 

[Demus]

most normal bad results can be easily overcome. Most diseases you get from lairs can be cured by a priest, most normal units taken out if you be a tad careful.

 

[CockyWizard]

Maybe, I just don't like the fact that the boss monsters = game over the majority of the time. I mean, it just doesn't seem right to have an 8 Str Ogre at your door before you can build your first warrior. Also, I've never got any good result that would be equal in value to the bad results.

 

[avalonnn]

lose on turn 2 = reload. lose on turn 444 would be really bad.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

Then don't pop them.

 

[CockyWizard]

So is that the new answer, don't pop lairs? Because it used to be that you wanted to get rid of lairs and barrows as early as possible to try to stop being swarmed with skeletons and lizardmen. Now it seems that we still have to deal with skeletons and lizardmen, with the additional effect of possibly loosing the game by trying to get rid of the lairs.

Also, a loss on turn 444 would mean you've played the game and were beaten. Loosing before you actually get a chance to play is what is really bothering me.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

It's a risk and reward thing. If you want the reward, take the risk. If you can't handle the bad, then don't take the risk. But really, you shouldn't be complaining because you didn't win the lottery.

Remember that it's a game people, you're not supposed to win every time.

 

[CockyWizard]

Well that's my point. It's not like I'm off trying to play this big gamble. I just want to get rid of the stupid lairs and barrows that are spawning monsters. Honestly, I think we should be rewarded for such behavior, not punished.

 

[Kael]

Maybe, I just don't like the fact that the boss monsters = game over the majority of the time. I mean, it just doesn't seem right to have an 8 Str Ogre at your door before you can build your first warrior. Also, I've never got any good result that would be equal in value to the bad results.

The ogre only spawns late in the game, it won't happen as an early lair result. In pre "d" version the ogre could spawn form the beginning and your right in stating that it was to much for the early game.

 

[nihonjeff]

Well that's my point. It's not like I'm off trying to play this big gamble. I just want to get rid of the stupid lairs and barrows that are spawning monsters. Honestly, I think we should be rewarded for such behavior, not punished.

From a certain perspective, the very existence of a lair is a "good result." Drop a unit or two next to the lair and kill the monsters as they spawn. Wait a few dozen turns, and Presto! Elite, highly promoted unit! If you get to the point where barb-farming is more trouble than it's worth (or you just want to cross your fingers and hope for a great result...), then explore the lair and deal with the consequences. There are advantages and disadvantages to both exploring a lair and leaving it to spawn, and determining your course of action based on those factors is what makes the game deep, interesting, and fun.

Personally, I'm happy with lairs the way they are.

 

[Ahriman]

The answer is; don't pop them in the first 100 turns or so automatically.

 

[sputnik323]

ahh this thread turned into bash the lairs thread... you can turn it off people! I was just commenting on my bad luck... and wasnt sure if it had to do with the changes to patch d. kael set it straight, and Im just unlucky. Lairs are awsome, dont kill them if you aren't prepared. BTW i dont think getting mithril weapons is such a bad thing early in the game, if people are willing to take the risk, get the rewards. How would it be different if a person found a powerful magic weapon in a RPG game? its not like it happens all the time.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I agree to what nihonjeff said. Lairs are the ultimate way to push the experience of your units. In my current game, I had a liare close to my capital and soon wthin my border right from the start spawning sceletons. The exp those fellows among others granted, later enabled me to beat up another civ which might have beaten up me otherwise. So they were really a blessing. Conesquently claiming that it should be the aim to destroy them as fast as possible is a huge mistake (at least IMO and when playing prince difficulty).
Still I too had the feeling, that you rather get in trouble, if you explore them.
The best thing I got was 1 poison strength, the worst a hill giant, who was quite a threat.
What I don't understand: why 30% for bad and 20% for good? Why not 25% each one?

 

[Darksaber1]

I like lairs. I tend to get mostly good, but the bad can be bothersome. But it's like some other people have said. I you don't want the risks, to even try to explore them for a while.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

agreed that 25% for both good and bad would be more fair

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

Parking units on some barrows and ruins is an amazingly good alternative to simply popping them early in the game.

 

[Sarisin]

ahh this thread turned into bash the lairs thread... you can turn it off people! I was just commenting on my bad luck... and wasnt sure if it had to do with the changes to patch d. kael set it straight, and Im just unlucky. Lairs are awsome, dont kill them if you aren't prepared. BTW i dont think getting mithril weapons is such a bad thing early in the game, if people are willing to take the risk, get the rewards. How would it be different if a person found a powerful magic weapon in a RPG game? its not like it happens all the time.

sputnik, I complained to Marnok when I played FF with the explorable lairs he designed just like you did. My guys were getting nothing but negative results. But, you know it's funny because since they became part of FFH, I have had incredibly good luck. In my last game I got a cool Mask, TWO Great
Bards, a Great Prophet, an Ecclesiastic, a Jade Torch, etc.

So, I have no complaint about bad luck with the lairs. I just wish they didn't get guards on them so fast!