Patch Update by Greg @ 2K

[NBAfan]

This is good. If there are more good patches like this I will buy the game. I'm glad Firaxs is improving the game without DLC.

 

[manu-fan]

These changes look good.

However, no resource yield changes????

Right now, it seems best to just put Trading Posts everywhere and then buy the stuff you need. I think mines should be +2p, farms on Flood Plains +2f, and Fishing boats give +1f also or something.

Cheers.

 

[civ-wrecked]

Is there anything I need to do to install the latest patch or is it automatically done at the Steam server side and I don't have to do anything on my side ?
BTW, I tried to play again last night, after playing for around 2 weeks then quitted for over a month. The desktop icon didn't work (it claimed the program did not exist or some such) so I checked that the DVD was still in and then the prompt came up to install the game. It's a little odd since I don't think I uninstalled it.
Anyway, after reinstalling, the game seems to work much better now compared to my memory of how often it crashed and took a long time whenever it saved/loaded. I looked around the menus for any "Update program" option but did not see anything so my guess is that it is patched automatically at the server side.

 

[migkillertwo]

AI

* Worker AI improvements.
* Update to tactical AI pillaging code. Additionally, always check to make sure it’s not trying to pillage in an enemy dominance zone.
* AI victory emphasis improvements (more efficient end-game when focusing on Science and Diplo victories).
* AI should colonize other continents regularly.
* AI will emphasize production of an Ocean going explorer unit when the time comes.
* Adjust Napoleon to make him more likely to go for culture.
* More aggressive second wave expansion (mostly off shore) after initial empire building and consolidation has occurred.
* Optimization when finding routes (pathfinder improvement).
* Multiple tweaks and bug fixes.
* AI will now build ranged and mobile units more in line with the flavor settings.
* Multiple defensive AI tweaks.
* Never use ranged units to provide flanking bonuses. (Added 11/18)
* Improve AI use of protected bombard attacks (melee in front, ranged in the rear). (Added 11/18)
* Worker priority adjustments (prioritize pillaged tiles, etc.). (Added 11/18)
* Further pathfinder optimization. (Added 11/18)
* AI will be more aggressive about pursuing Diplo victory if they are wealthy. (Added 12/3)
* AI more effective with building, moving, and using aircraft and anti-aircraft more effectively. (Added 12/3)
* AI more likely to effectively use siege units in a city attack. (Added 12/3)
* Better nuke targeting by AI. (Added 12/3)
* Tactical AI Tuning: Reduce chance of AI civs making "suicide" attacks. (Added 12/3)
* Multiple tweaks and bug fixes. (Added 12/3)


GAMEPLAY

* Cities heal more quickly.
* Only allow one upgrade per unit from a goody hut.
* Science building track adjustments (cost, specialist slots, GP Points, etc). (Added 11/18)
* Amount of damage caused during naval combat increased. (Added 11/18)
* Melee horse units combat value lowered, and now receive a penalty when attacking cities. (Added 11/18)
* Lowered bonuses received from Maritime city-states. (Added 11/18)
* Removed maintenance from defensive buildings. (Added 11/18)
* Multiple unit upgrade track adjustments. Most (but not all) units now have a full upgrade path from start to finish. (Added 11/18)
* Open terrain penalty lowered. (Added 11/18)
* Policies must be selected the turn they are earned. (Added 11/18)
* Promotions must be selected the turn they are earned. If it’s as a result of combat, then the beginning of the next turn. (Added 11/18)
* Increased city strength ramp-up based on technology. (Added 12/3)
* Catapults and Trebuchets now weaker against units but stronger VS cities, and reduced effectiveness of Archers & Crossbowmen (and their UUs) VS cities. (Added 12/3)
* Have culture cost for policies never go down (trading away cities to reduce culture cost exploit). (Added 12/3)
* Reduced effects of Forbidden Palace and Meritocracy (Happiness per city). (Added 12/3)
* Reduced points from Wonders & Cities, increased points for population. (Added 12/3)
* Reduced culture needed for first plot acquisition. (Added 12/3)
* New Building: Circus Maximus (National Wonder for happiness track). (Added 12/3)
* New Building: National Treasury (National Wonder for economic track). (Added 12/3)
* Unhappiness beyond a certain point breeds rebels within your empire, based on the number of cities a player has. (Added 12/3)
* Reduced amount of food needed for cities to grow at larger sizes. (Added 12/3)
* Tradition branch balance (Landed Elite and Monarchy improvements). (Added 12/3)
* Liberty branch balance (Settler training bonus now only applies to capital). (Added 12/3)
* Buildings can now no longer provide more Happiness than there is population in a city (wonders are excluded from this). (Added 12/3)
* 3 new additional Natural Wonders added to gameplay, with accompanying “rarity” code. (Added 12/3)
* Multiple Tech Tree tweaks to address “slingshot” tech exploits. (Added 12/3)
* Killing a barb inside a city-state's territory now gives a 5-turn buffer where there is no Influence intrusion penalty. (Added 12/3)
* Reduced and balanced combat bonuses. (Added 12/3)


UI

* Tweaked the single-player score list to hide the civs of unmet ai players.
* Added game option to disable automated workers from removing features. (Added 11/18)
* Additional updates to the Global Politics screen. (Added 12/3)
* Added game option to disable turn-blocking promotions and policy choices. (Added 12/3)


DIPLO

* AI's attitude towards you is now visible in the diplo screen and diplo drop-down.
* Added info tooltip for an AI leader's mood. Lists things that are making an AI player happy/upset.
* New diplo system: Declaration of Friendship (public declaration with diplomatic repercussions).
* New diplo system: Denounce (public declaration with diplomatic repercussions).
* New custom leader responses (Serious Expansion Warning, Aggressive Military, Luxury Exchange, Borders Exchange, Gift Request).
* Additional AI attitude tool-tips for cases that were not already covered. (Added 12/3)


MODDING

* Parent category counts now include counts of child categories.
* Selecting/deselecting a category now automatically selects/deselects it's children and its parent.
* Tweaked category name truncation to better fit names.
* Hide categories w/ no children and a count of 0.
* Added support for fallback languages (if mod is not translated, fall-back to English so text keys are not showing).
* Support for mods that perform major restructuring of the tech tree including adding, deleting, and updating techs, buildings, and units. (Added 12/3)
* Added GameEvents system for overriding Gameplay DLL specific functionality. (Added 12/3)
* Fixed "Reload Landmark System" mod flag to now refresh landmarks defined in "ArtDefine_Landmarks". (Added 12/3)
* Multiple SDK Updates (details to come with full patch notes). (Added 12/3)


MISC

* Fixed save format which causes saves to increase the memory footprint of the game drastically when loading frequently over the course of the game.

Last edited by 2K Greg; 1 Hour Ago at 02:08 PM.

And I jizzed my pants at the bolded one.

You guys should make it so that puppet cities spawn rebels.

INSURGENCY FTW!

 

[Louis XXIV]

ICS isn't about just cramming cities. It means building a new city has more benefit than penalty (including opportunity cost) in pretty much every situation. In other words the best strategy is to spam them. The limited space thing just arises from that, in Civ5, cities rarely grow beyond size 12 anyways, so why not cram them saving on land and road expense?

Actually, the pure form is about cramming cities. The sprawl part of ICS came from the idea that there isn't a tile that isn't a city, ideally. Logically, if the marginal benefit of adding a new city is less than the marginal cost, no one will extend ICS to the end, but you can in the theoretical form.

The problem is ICS actually discourages people from building effective cities. The goal is more cities, not better cities. When the phenomenon was described in Civ2, the goal was to just have a ton of cities that could build chariots and then rush and kill everyone else. In Civ5, it's ironic because it also makes it better for research as well as production. It becomes ideal for both military conquest and peaceful builder strategies. That's the reason it needs to be nerfed. Other strategies have to be equally valid.

Yeah. Stability and order always have been improved due to access to dye and whales...

A happy population is one that is less likely to resist your rule. Therefore, order is improved.

 

[lschnarch]

A happy population is one that is less likely to resist your rule. Therefore, order is improved.

All good and fine, but the whole system doesn't make any sense, regardless what title you give it.

So, you've got gold, and your people are content. Order is established and not endangered.
And now you get silver, too, and suddenly your people are preparing for a Golden Age?
Golden Ages have come because of many things, great progress in arts, in military successes, in culture in general.
But when luxuries were abundant, typically you had to face negative trends, kind of degeneration of what formerly had made you strong.

And as I've said before, we have to say good bye to "global happiness". What is global now is unhappiness.
Because Ottery St. Catchpole is going unhappy over one additional citizen, your whole empire doesn't work anymore.
But a new theatre in London has no influence?

The way they are changing the system is ... odd, to say the least.
Band-aiding and patchworking, that is what they are doing; trying to supress the symptoms, whilst the cause is not dealt with.

 

[The_J]

Is there anything I need to do to install the latest patch or is it automatically done at the Steam server side and I don't have to do anything on my side ?

If you did not disable it, then the patch should automatically get installed.

 

[lietkynes]

If you did not disable it, then the patch should automatically get installed.

it's automatically installed anyway when you start the game, even if the automatic setting is disabled

 

[civ-wrecked]

If you did not disable it, then the patch should automatically get installed.

Thanks. I don't have to worry about missing the patch then.

 

[BubbaYeti]

Unfortunately with Civ V, I quickly came to realize that the most return was gained from cramming cities as close together as possible. In Civ IV, badly placed cities were mediocre, and often a financial liability. ICS is no fun as it requires no thinking, but provides the greatest rewards.

for me this is a main reason civ v seems less fun then civ iv...

 

[Louis XXIV]

All good and fine, but the whole system doesn't make any sense, regardless what title you give it.

What part of my explanation doesn't make sense. I'm just talking about the happy/unhappy aspect. It's the same as the Civ2 and 3 riot effect, only calculated on a widescale instead of piecemeal.

So, you've got gold, and your people are content. Order is established and not endangered.
And now you get silver, too, and suddenly your people are preparing for a Golden Age?
Golden Ages have come because of many things, great progress in arts, in military successes, in culture in general.
But when luxuries were abundant, typically you had to face negative trends, kind of degeneration of what formerly had made you strong.

Well, golden ages, historically, aren't triggered, they're recognized in hindsight. Progress in arts and culture doesn't trigger a golden age, it's a byproduct of one. Generally speaking, a period of social stability and, occasionally, an influx of wealth are the greatest triggers of a golden age.

For example, the golden age of Florence was a period when their internal struggles ended and the city itself reasserted governance (either in Republican form or under the rule of the Medici). There was a significant influx of wealth, ironically because of the black death, banking and trade were at their peak. The city still fought wars, but it was internally stable and able to patronize great artists who flocked to the city.

Actually, before I started writing that, I was prepared to concede your point. Now I kinda like how the Golden Age system is instituted.

And as I've said before, we have to say good bye to "global happiness". What is global now is unhappiness.
Because Ottery St. Catchpole is going unhappy over one additional citizen, your whole empire doesn't work anymore.
But a new theatre in London has no influence?

If you literally think it is how happy people feel, then yes, it doesn't make sense. If you think of it as order and stability, I think it makes a lot of sense. If everybody in one city is happy, making them more happy isn't going to make your empire as a whole more stable. Direct your resources elsewhere instead.

 

[jagdtigerciv]

More importantly, when is this patches' eta? I've been holding off on a game for weeks, thinking the patch is coming shortly!

 

[LAnkou]

good that beaker overflow is taken into account...

WAIT!!!

it isn't...too bad

ETA: Going to bet on christmas holidays! What a nice gift!

 

[Pouakai]

What if some of those un-named achievements have something to do with the new patch, eg. Have a city captured by rebels?

 

[Slowpoke]

Well they'd better hurry up Finals end for me at Dec. 16, I want to be playing all day as celebration.

Edit: In all seriousnous they should really hurry up. They need to get it out at least a week before christmas so they can find any bugs in the patch. It'd be pretty embaressing if they made a patch and people getting civ 5 as a gift get crashes

 

[Pouakai]

I would say it'll come out about 1 week before Xmas, as will the DLC. If my calculations are correct, and they announce the DLC 1 week prior, it'll be announced this friday.

 

[Celevin]

All good and fine, but the whole system doesn't make any sense, regardless what title you give it.

We can all agree that it doesn't work. The interesting question is WHY it doesn't work. Do static happiness buildings with the unhappiness being generated from population work? If it does, do we just have the numbers set wrong, or is it the system itself? Can it be solved by a tweak or do we need to change around the functions at which the happiness/unhappiness is generated, or do we need to change the system around entirely?

What exactly is broken? This is the only question I can answer, and I'm coming from the angle that "unhappiness is a way to slow horizontal and vertical growth". Happiness as a mechanic is broken because horizontal growth yields more net happiness, not less. Because of this, it's not just a problem with the numbers, but with the functions themselves (ie static happiness from buildings, static happiness from # of cities), or something deeper. With all my masters degrees, game theory knowledge and papers, and years of geekhood behind me, I can't get much further than that. Even after spending hours thinking about it and reading other people's suggestions.


And real life reasoning doesn't work. This is an abstraction.

 

[Slowpoke]

That's why you use global happiness is combination with alpaca's city maintenance. Then just tweak things until it works out for you.

 

[Celevin]

Actually, the pure form is about cramming cities. The sprawl part of ICS came from the idea that there isn't a tile that isn't a city, ideally. Logically, if the marginal benefit of adding a new city is less than the marginal cost, no one will extend ICS to the end, but you can in the theoretical form.

The problem is ICS actually discourages people from building effective cities. The goal is more cities, not better cities. When the phenomenon was described in Civ2, the goal was to just have a ton of cities that could build chariots and then rush and kill everyone else. In Civ5, it's ironic because it also makes it better for research as well as production. It becomes ideal for both military conquest and peaceful builder strategies. That's the reason it needs to be nerfed. Other strategies have to be equally valid.

I dunno, I've been comparing my empires from ones where I ICS, and others where I purposely try and build less, but better cities. Know the difference?

In the ICS empire I have more cities. The cities in my core are no less powerful than my smaller empire's comparative cities. You simply don't sacrifice enough by building another city. You can buy the settler (or build it really fast with Liberty), then the new city is self-managing. It in fact brings you money and happiness, which can make your core cities even better!

The problem's in 2 parts: we have the one part that new cities take almost no opportunity cost, and are in the black pretty much immediately. The second part is big cities just aren't worth it, with growth stagnating after size 12 and 1 big city being much worse than 2 smaller ones with the same overall population.

 

[Putmalk]

This patch better fix AI problems. It's turn 41 of a game, and I got a threat saying I conquered Siam and now everybody hates me...I've never been in a war yet. Broken AI. XD