Patriotism, good thing/bad thing?

[Guangxi]

That's hell of an assumption

how? you say islam believes democracy and human rights are wrong, thats not exactly far from saying its fascistic.

Anyway, do you really want to say, that Islamic culture is open to concepts like secular liberal democracy granting all people (including women, pagans and atheists) or individualism?

Exceedingly religious cultures generally are not.

And BTW, fascism is a Western concept, it would not work in Islamic world. Their preferred form government is theocracy.

explain how it would not work.

 

[Winner]

I think Salah-Al-Din said once that pure liberal democracy was contrary to Islamic teachings.

Of course it is. It is a Western concept, developed by Westerners as the form of government most suitable for their mentality.

Every culture has its own ways.

 

[Winner]

how? you say islam believes democracy and human rights are wrong, thats not exactly far from saying its fascistic.

When I say I am opposed to the communist ideas, does that make me a fascist too?

World is not black/white.

Exceedingly religious cultures generally are not.

Touché.

explain how it would not work.

Fascism is godless, based on the idea of organic nation, which is unknown in Islamic world.

 

[Guangxi]

When I say I am opposed to the communist ideas, does that make me a fascist too?

World is not black/white.

well, capitalism is capitalism.

Fascism is godless, based on the idea of organic nation, which is unknown in Islamic world.

what about the Ba`ath party? i know its a left wing party, but its also secular.

 

[Sidhe]

I think Salah-Al-Din said once that pure liberal democracy was contrary to Islamic teachings.

And he's right, because under his belief the ultimate arbiter is Allah or God, just as a fundamentalist of any religion would assert the same thing.

In fact any religious person would say the same thing, if you are purely judged by man's laws, then you are not following your religion.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is Gods.

 

[Xanikk999]

I beileve most of the time its harmless, however it can cloud peoples minds to the truth about thier country and others sometimes.

 

[Bast]

And he's right, because under his belief the ultimate arbiter is Allah or God, just as a fundamentalist of any religion would assert the same thing.

In fact any religious person would say the same thing, if you are purely judged by man's laws, then you are not following your religion.

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is Gods.

And yet liberal democracies thrive in western previously christian countries.

 

[warpus]

i think you guys are getting patriotism and nationalism mixed up so here are the definitions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

i see nothing wrong with patriotism but i see lots of things wrong with nationalism

USA USA USA USA!!!!!!!

Of course the two terms have different definitions.. however, to be patriotic in this year and age means to be patriotic to your nation state.. The terms are different, but intertwined.

 

[Atlas14]

And yet liberal democracies thrive in western previously christian countries.

Yes, because theocratic dictatorships are clearly not going to support the transformation to a liberal democracy. That does not mean Muslims can't eventually adopt liberal democracies.

 

[willemvanoranje]

I think Salah-Al-Din said once that pure liberal democracy was contrary to Islamic teachings.

That's pretty amazing for a guy who lived centuries before modern representative democracy entered the world stage, or markets had emerged. Or are you talking about Syrian dude?

 

[Old Spice]

Patriotism is the same thing as nationalism, I hate them both and people that feel that they need to practice them.

 

[willemvanoranje]

Of course the two terms have different definitions.. however, to be patriotic in this year and age means to be patriotic to your nation state.. The terms are different, but intertwined.

True. In daily use, there is barely a difference between nationalism and patriotism these days. For political science though, they mean two totally different things.

 

[Trajan12]

That's pretty amazing for a guy who lived centuries before modern representative democracy entered the world stage, or markets had emerged. Or are you talking about Syrian dude?

No no no the guy in the ask a muslim thread!

 

[Perfection]

It's a pretty okay thing, I guess.

I mean an excuse to grill out and blow stuff up is always a good thing.

 

[Stylesjl]

Love for one's country is stupid. We are all humans, any attitude that beleives otherwise is simple arrogance

 

[Bad Player]

Europatriotism is good, the rest blocks the progress. The sooner we get the idea that nation states matters out of heads of the ordinary Europeans, the better.

I think it's kinda cool having all those different countries and cultures so close to eachother - a tourist's dream!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There's a time and place for patriotism, and it's college. I mean sports. Cheering your team on in a friendly sportive way should be the only patriotic display around. Because when the game ends, it ends.

edit: Patriotism can be a weakness. For instance when (disclaimer: do not click this link if you have a weak heart) this has the ability to upset you and even becomes a threat to your health ...

I quote: "You will not see this heart-stopping photo on the front page of the NY Times or on the lead story of the major news networks"

 

[FredLC]

I feel patriotism to be a stupid feeling. Honestly. Actually, it's just a visible manner to sell political and economical ideologies, for people who feel an undue boundary for being born within the same arbitrary draw of lines. It's not even about being born closer together, or, say, Texans from the extreme south should have more connection with north Mexicans than with people from Boston.

People are just people, the "lines" we can't cross without asking governments for permission are just manners through which we are kept apart. I do hope that, one day, patriotism will have no importance other than defining selection criteria for world cup teams.

Regards .

 

[willemvanoranje]

Actually, it's just a visible manner to sell political and economical ideologies...

Jack Snyder - From Voting to Violence

Makes a good point that nationalism is nothing but idiot feelings introduced in a society when the old elite starts losing its power after the first steps to a democracy have been made.

 

[plarq]

Jack Snyder - From Voting to Violence

Makes a good point that nationalism is nothing but idiot feelings introduced in a society when the old elite starts losing its power after the first steps to a democracy have been made.

Actually, the first step to end monarchy or feudal system is the awakening of nationalism. So there posed the dilemma: what can we do to bring more power to the people (democracy) while not bring them ultra-nationalism (i.e. dangerous stupidity)?