PCSG2: Lalibela's Eleven Churches

Cam_H · Mar 14, 2011

OK ... so we're going for a Culture win leveraged by Corporations, which I presume means pulling off the Fantastic Four;

Sid's Sushi
Creative Constructions
Civilized Jewelers
Aluminum Co

So - looking strategically at our map, we need to drive a wedge through the middle of Egypt where we pick up a couple of Rice, an Iron, a Clam, possibly a Gold. Also the southern side of Persia gives us a Rice, a Copper, a Fish and a Clam, although we'll have problems with cultural pressure from the capital if we stop at Susa. Fustat and Anjar have each two resources we want, so poor old Saladin's got to go at some stage.

We want to pop a Great Engineer - I propose that Qohaito just gets on with the Ironworks at the first opportunity, and we run Engineers out of that city for Creative Constructions. Popping a Great Artist at some stage for Civilized Jewelers shouldn't be a problem if we shape a Golden Age around our existing Great Prophet.

In hindsight it's a bit ~~of a pisser~~ disappointing that we didn't go for Sistine, and Mehmed's now got it.

I'd like to get to Assembly Line, but we have a lot of Oromos that would benefit from upgrading (0% :science:

).

I'm very open to the roster's views - especially as I seem to be so disagreeable lately.

(Not unhappy with the super defender or Representation - Norvin, in fairness, did not get a cue to go into HR. I 'generally' don't want to cap' enemies until we have 33 cities and their resources).

[Edit]

Qohaito to finish the Cannon and start on Ironworks - run an Engineer.

We have four cities without Courthouses that are costing us a lot of needless wasted :gold:

- I'd whip a few.

We've talked a bit about a Missionary pump. I'm thinking Adulis can knock out a few for a while.

Otherwise ... build Cannons and Maces, and draft Rifles.

I'm inclined to turn off research and upgrade all of our Oromos that have Drill IV for a while.

I think we should sweep the south of Persia all the way to the capital. This leaves a big buffer between us and Mansa (Tokugawa). Dariush Kabir, as Norvin planned, could be taken too.

Longer term, we need to take the top half-and-a-bit of Egypt and all of Arabia as well. This will give us 38 cities if we raze Ergili.

I'd rather not cap' the chronically unpopular Cyrus - but happy to appease the roster.

[/Edit]

nocho · Mar 14, 2011

Sounds good, Norvin. Will look at it later.

Are we really going for culture? Cool! :cool:

I'm fine with the ideas outlined by Cam_H. We can indeed turn of research for a while to get the cash for upgrades. In fact, I guess we "only" have to research still the techs needed to found all the corps, after which we may want to use the culture slider. By then our military should be so overwhelming that we only need to keep Mehmed in check. Or do we want to go conquer Sistine as well for the fun of it?

vranasm · Mar 14, 2011

still have to check the save, but looks nice form desc.

I am confused with the maces, but I understand getting CR's sounds nice on paper (btw with siege we can have almost everything as mop-up... even HA's would suffice)

Agree with upgrading oromo's.

Generally like to wipe clean AI's ;-) (hate that yearn to motherland minuses). So do some nasty things to Cyrus, he attacked us anyway!

Maybe watch for the Hatty+Sal block for some backstab.

Culture idea is great, works nicely with the variant!!

lymond · Mar 14, 2011

Let's not forget Banks and WS in Lali. However, while in war mode we need to keep the primary focus on the war engine unless we feel we have enough units. Although our empire is getting big enough almost and specialized enough to do the war thing and still keep up with the basics.

V - With no more Oromos and the ability to still build Maces at CRII or III in Gondor and then upgrade them to Rifles is pretty huge. These units will be monsters and we can later attach a GG or 2 to these units to make Super Heros. I'm at a loss though as to how we can still build maces. I forget the tech that obsoletes them.

Food for thought and possible debate:

I alluded to this early, but I'm more concerned about Hatty. Cyrus is a d**khead for attacking and I know we all want revenge. However, I thing we should ponder this situation a bit more. Two thoughts:

1) We can destroy Cyrus now or cap him. Meanwhile, Hatty likely plots war and possibly backstabs. Eventually she gets better units.

2) If possible take Ergili this turn and make peace and take 900+ gold from Cyrus that we can use for Oromo/Mace>Rifle upgrades. Liberate Ergili for a little Cyrus love. We now have a peace treaty, a huge pile o gold, and can turn our attention to Sal and Hatty now. Cyrus is fairly strong so I doubt he will vassal.

The advantage of 2 is that we still have a military tech advantage on Hatty and can focus full attention on her and Sal without fear from Cyrus. Plus, she has some nice land. I was going to check the wonder situation between Cyrus and Hatty but I currently cannot download the file.

Brian Shanahan · Mar 14, 2011

Well first I'm out of pocket until Sunday, have to go up to Limerick tomorrow for prospective college things, so a bit early there.

On the war situation, if we build up our forces defensively in the west, i.e. try and get average 4 rifles per city there (planted in the best area for mobile defence) with some support cannons, I think we should be able to prosecute the war against Cyrus fairly aggressively. If she attacks we can always take peace then. Now I'm not saying that what we should be doing but it is a valid option, especially with the surplus of happy we have for whipping/drafting.

As regards capping Cyrus I'm in agreement there. I only take vassals when I'm getting sick of domination and want quick votes for the UN, i.e. when it doesn't matter, so peace without capping is good. As regards the long term plan I'm good with that.

vranasm · Mar 14, 2011

I checked the save. Looks really great.

I think we can make Army South and Army North.
Army South should go with ergli, tarsus, susa, persepolis (just don't send there Paulus, use better Manstein right away!)

Army North can take on Dariush, Gordium and Sardis.

i see like we grew a lot (muhahaha!!! my TS is nearing). I think we can use there some whips :-D

we definitely should build some money for emergency upgrades if arabs declare. OW's are a bit weak against knights, so better be prepared.

for techs I suppose we aim directly for AL.

according to F4->info we get only 16 commerce from AI's trade routes... everyone else is in merc. Too bad we didn't checked.

Cam_H · Mar 14, 2011

Some good input - thanks!

vranasm ... I'm not much of a 'whipper', so I guess it's up to lymond to see how much whip weariness you can create!

lymond's proposal regarding making peace with Persia should be discussed further imho ...

As before, I'd like to take out his southern cities and leave his northern ones alone where he can deal with Mansa. Nobody's indicating a great desire to capitulate Persia, which I also agree with. I think though that grabbing Persepolis for Notre Dame and The Hanging Gardens is worth a shot (and the Buddhist shrine should be worth a bit too with 20% global spread), and he does have quite a few resources that will feed well into our Corporations.

I'm mindful of Egypt-Arabia, and can see a similar type thing happening that we saw with Persia; a numerically strong but low quality unit invasion. As such, if she comes demanding our technology ... do we give it to her for 10 turns of peace? I'd actually like her to swap over to Free Market anyway, so hopefully if she does get demanding, it's for Economics. In the meantime though, I'm quite content to stockpile units in our western cities rather than send them en masse to Persia, while our core and southern cities feed the Persian effort.

I am also mindful of Wall Street and the need for Banks, and as a builder-at-heart I'd love to get going on this, but really I think we have enough on our hands now. As per above, a few new Courthouses will free up a bit of extra commerce in the meantime.

I'm OK with Free Market, but vranasm - you're quite right that at the moment it's not helping an awful lot. Still, it's the civic that we'll presumably end up with for a while, if not the rest of the game.

So - I'd just like a pointer on our policy with Persia ... press on or take the :gold:

and focus on Egypt-Arabia?

________________________________________

Just the roster for quick reference;

lymond <<< On Deck
vranasm
(Brian) <<< Skip pending hangover cure
nocho
Norvin
Cam <<< Up
(Frag) <<< (Assumed dropped out)

Brian Shanahan · Mar 14, 2011

Cam I'm out of the game for this round, National Drinking Day and all you know. Better change the roster to fit.

lymond · Mar 14, 2011

IMO - Cyrus is all or nothing really. He's seems quite a bit smaller than Hatty, so if we take a few cities and do not vassal him, he will vassal to Hatty or Mehmed. So we got to take him all out in a long slow war. On the other hand, Hatty will make a good vassal and buffer to Mehmed - the #1 concern in the game. We should only have to whittle down her forces and make a beeline to Thebes and she should cap with us just taking a few cities. A small task force should take down Sal easily.

Once we have Hatty capped and Sal gone, we can turn are focus fully on Cyrus knowing that our Western borders are secure.

That's my thought on it, but I'm fine either way.

We can look for opportunities to improve diplo with Cyrus and maybe bribe him into war with Mansa to keep him occupied longer term. Not sure of their current relations at the moment though.

vranasm · Mar 15, 2011

well peaceful strategy can backfire at us big time this game.
I am for total wipe of Cyrus.

btw checked F2 and as it seems we are paying big money for units and when I checked the troops in western cities... every city has at least 4 defenders (except new saladin's), but low quality.
We could slowly exchange them with high quality troops.
We have in OW's almost the same army in west compared to east...

Cam_H · Mar 15, 2011

lymond said:
That's my thought on it, but I'm fine either way.

Now you're starting to sound like me! :lol:

lymond said:
IMO - Cyrus is all or nothing really.

vranasm said:
I am for total wipe of Cyrus.

Well I got the feeling that the roster wasn't all that keen to share a long border with Mali (Japan), and Persia has few resources of interest to us in those cities along the north, so I was going to contain our conflict to Persia's southern cities ... but I'm fine with going 'the whole hog'. As was noted, the last thing we need is 'Motherland' issues on top of 'war weariness' and everything else; ... 'hell no, we won't go', 'cannot forget your cruel oppression', 'we will not fight our brothers and sisters of the faith', whine whine whine!

I do think that Lymond's proposal has a lot of merit, but on balance I'm inclined to take Persia out of the equation if we can.

Ummm ... can I build some Medics???

lymond · Mar 15, 2011

Do we have horse yet? If so maybe a mounted medic that we can attach the next GG to. Or just create a scout medic for now. He can get Medic I now and III with the GG. Or use the unpromoted Oromo next to Eridi now for MedII and attach GG later, although I hate to use an Oromo.

Cam_H · Mar 15, 2011

Sorry - nothing to add other than I'll be getting on with this tonight (about 12 hrs from now).

I was just planning to make a couple of cheap Medic IIs out of Explorers, although if you did want to make a super-medic, then I can build a Rifle with the view of getting it attached to a Great General where it can perform mop-up to build its XPs/promotions further. I agree that attaching to an Oromo seems a little wasteful.

nocho · Mar 15, 2011

Good luck! Though I guess you don't need it.

Cam_H · Mar 15, 2011

Oh yes I do!

lymond · Mar 15, 2011

Well, if you are going rifle for the medic, I'd rather use a mounted unit. A knight should be fine and we can keep him as a knight for some time.

Cam_H · Mar 16, 2011

Knights can't get Woodsman promotions though, which is what I understood; at least Woodsman III and Medic I with a build towards Medic III, Leadership, and Morale.

I'll make it a Knight though if you want.

vranasm · Mar 16, 2011

explorers hear fine to me! much better then knight

Norvin_Green · Mar 16, 2011

Good luck Cam_H! Did I miss who you are going to attack?

Cam_H · Mar 16, 2011

I ended up playing 12 turns, and it's 3.30am and I'm falling asleep at the keyboard.

War seemed to go very gradually against Cyrus, but we're pushing ahead nonetheless. Sorry - four cities in 12 turns doesn't seem too impressive. He threw a couple of counter invasions at us. I got a Great General, who's currently a Medic I / Woodsman III Rifle. As discussed popped out a few Explorer Medics and Christian Missionaries. We've got a pretty beat-up force that's just taken Susa, and a small stack that should be able to take Gordium in a few turns. Main stack is crawling along the bottom of Persia, and is parked outside Susa.

Basra twice went into revolt. We got hit by a 'volcano' event and lost a Town in Lalibela's BFC.

Nearly got the Banks up for Wall Street. Ironworks is about half done. Globe is done. If we're going for :culture:

, Hermitage should be a consideration.

Some Worker action is needed ... connecting roads around the former city of Ergili would seem to be a priority now that area's largely free of Persian troops. I didn't do anything much about it in this turnset, but one thing that I think that we should do is a 'Rifleman city exchange program'! ... we have a lot of highly promoted Riflemen acting as city garrisons, while our low XP drafted Riflemen are often off fighting or being stockpiled in Debre Berhan. We should get our better units fighting or getting ready for war, and use drafted units to act as garrisons.

Hatshepsut is WHEOOHRN (has been for 4-5 turns), but there's no indication that it's us as there's no visible troop build up, and she seems to be more perturbed by other tribes - there's a stack in Alexandria that looks destined for the Ottomans (yay!). She's been spreading Christianity in her cities for us. I've built on our western forces by both whip and draft, that are sitting in Debre Berhan.

There's a bit of :gold:

in the reserve - it can be used for more upgrades or to push a bit harder toward Assembly Line.

Happy to pass it over here - still opportunity to draft this turn. Will update with a report and a few screenies later.

Turn report:

Spoiler :

Tech' and Rel'ns screenies for your viewing pleasure;

Spoiler :

PCSG2: Lalibela's Eleven Churches

Deity

Deity

Deity

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Permanoob

Deity

Deity

Permanoob

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Deity

Deity

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Deity

Deity

Deity

Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!)

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Deity

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