PCSG2: Lalibela's Eleven Churches

Shaka does like Mansa ('Pleased'), but Mansa is still a few tech's off Rifling.

We need Astronomy as a prereq' for; Civilized Jewelers, Aluminum Co, to uncover Aluminum via Industrialism, Broadway, Rock n Roll, Hollywood, and Broadcast Towers, but we can certainly live with Sid's Sushi and Creative Constructions for a while, as to spread around two Corporations alone is pretty expensive. Personally, I'd 'bite the bullet' on Astronomy and get 2-for-1 out of Rifling while it's there, but I can see that we have other 'fish to fry' and don't feel passionately that we need that tech' immediately. If you want to avoid the obsoleting effect of Astronomy, then that's OK, but I'm inclined to take it as well as Sci' Method for Rifling now.

I think it's quite feasible for us to;

(a.) Attack Mansa Musa,
(b.) Attack Hatshepsut-Saladin,
(c.) Attack both Mansa Musa and Hatshepsut-Saladin, or
(d.) Turtle up, found two 'junk' cities in our borders and just shoot passively for the win (getting our own Coal {Ironworks, as well as Aluminum Co.} will take some time though with Ecbatawa and Awdaghost fighting over that Coal tile between them).

Really, until vranasm suggested Mali, I had my eye solely on Egypt-Arabia. I think it's quite possible for us to pull off both simultaneously.

I'd sure like us to get Creative Constructions soon. I'd be OK for the slider to go down to 60% to get it in four turns, and then maybe turn up the :gold: to cover the cost of spreading the Corporation to three or four cities (Aksum, Addis Ababa, Qohaito, Gondar) as well as your above mentioned troop upgrades.
 
well I would like some more input from nocho, brian and norwin on the matters. i could play sunday evening, but as I see it we are split about the MM war.

The gold was meant more like reserve without burning it through on 3-4 OW's for upgrade to infantry... I hope there is no real danger of Hatty declaring on herself.

The corps costs will be a bit expensive though.
With you mentioning 4 cities... will we spread every corp in every city? i generally feel we should if we go this way. Even better would be to get them into AI's cities, but in my experience AI's guard themself against corps with SP or merc.
 
Well I think that Creative Constructions (extra :hammers:) and Sid's Sushi (extra :food:) should go pretty well everywhere domestically. Provided we get some Coal, then Aluminum Co and Civilized Jewelers could be confined to just the planned legendary cities, but why stop there, as each spread earns more :gold:?

With Wall Street up in Lalibela - it's really a license to print money. We should find ourselves running a 100%:culture: with buckets of :gold: as surplus for Universal Suffrage :gold: rushes and other troop upgrades. That's the theory at any rate!

In terms of foreign spread - maybe Civilized Jewelers is pretty safe. If we can see a nation has both Aluminum and Coal, then there's a case for Aluminum Corp. Creative Constructions and Sid's Sushi are pretty beneficial because of the :hammers: and the :food:, and as such I'd be inclined to keep them to domestic spread only, or if not to nations that have no hope of threatening a win.
 
Yep, don't spread corps foreign if they give a benefit to the AI. Jewelers and Aluminum are kinda marginal if not going for culture so we could spread those across borders just for the money. Of course are main concern now is getting coal and more cities.

If you feel comfortable fighting 2 wars or 2.5 wars, then I"m cool with that approach.
 
@vra, I'm fine with any of the war options, so if you feel like going for mm, go ahead. If you feel more like hatty/sal, go ahead too! :)
 
ok then it's MM times. I suppose will start from the coal city after reallocation of troops.

I hope the west will hold the line eventually.

edit:

I rechecked the situation and I think the north is actually safe. i will probably use the draft a bit there in 2-3 cities just to be safe before Arabia

The troops movements to MM should culminate around T4 near southern city, around T5 I could be near borders of djenne (I would declare on T4).

No one told me we can't build RR without coal... so I will have to be creative with tasks for workers :-(

at T1 (to finish the builds around empire) I would switch the civic to OR for 2T of anarchy (I am still not sure with it since it delays techs and builds in core, otoh it's good timeframe before persia cities come out of revolt).

We can trade rifling+105g for SM, I would wait with this trade until combustion though.
MM doesn't have RP, so I hope he will not get it from Mehmed (I would trade it to mehmed ideally)

Checked the diplo and Hatty has -7 with Mehmed, the thing complicates Saladdin though. I hope there could be some war between Hatty and Mehmed!
 
Played up to T255 to round it a bit.

personal note 1 - never again play important TS when having bored child around!
personal note 2 - 2hours for 12 turns???
personal note 3 - 30 minutes for report???

General report:

Everything goes smoothly, we got 4 cities out of 7 from MM. Btw kumbah saleh (or something like that) has Versailles!

I marked our 2 armies, please note that Army 1 has very weak cannons, Army 2 has only handful of "good" ones too. We lost in the war 2 cannons on Wallata (such costly city!).
Next player should imo meet those 2 armies near the supposed marked city and capture it and then heal up before proceeding.
There was some natural 'attrition' where I left generally 2 rifles guarding each captured city, except for KS, where we have only 1 rifle (maybe worth the upgrade!).

Hatty DoWed Mehmed!! very pleasant.

We are on the way to Medicine (5T left) very good bpt and reasonable gpt.
We have up a lot of infra now.
Persia cities are dead killed, but should quickly pick up.
worth note that one persian city could be drafted if we feel need for some more troops in MM war.

CC is in our core cities (Lali, Gondar, Aksum, AA, Quhaito and Yeha). There should be more executives on the way.

I totally forgot about spreading hindu to AA :-( - sorry about that. AA is working now on budh stuppa should be in 5T, so there is time. I actually prequeued hindu mish in Aksum.
Persepolis has kind of Chirst missionary duty for MM cities.

i turned on citizen governor almost everywhere with emphasis on production... if AZ and TMIT can do... i think we can too.

More detailed report about turns with SS

Spoiler :


T0 reorganize troops, some drafts

T1
good event
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0753.jpg

switch to OR
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0754.jpg


T2
deleted some obsolete troops in west (axes, spears)

T3
anarchy ends, whips start around empire ;-)
hatty goes WHEOORN
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0755.jpg


T4
Declare war on MM
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0756.jpg


T5
Combustion home
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0757.jpg

Buddhism spread to Lalibela
Creative construction founded
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0758.jpg

trade rifles for SM
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0759.jpg


T6
first capture of war Awdaghost
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0760.jpg

railroading starts

T7
we capture Djenne
Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0761.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0762.jpg


still whipping :-D

T8
CC spread to Gondar

T9
Hatty declares on Mehmed
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0763.jpg

CC spread to Aksum

T10
Lali finishes WS finally
Aksum Hindu Mandir
declined Shaka "invitation"
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0764.jpg


T11
Biology home -> medicine
CC spread to AA
Kumbi Saleh captured!
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0765.jpg


T12
Capturing Walata costs us 2 cannons :-(, very tough defense!
Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0766.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0767.jpg


CC spread to Yeha

T13
we got offer from Shaka for trade, which I politely decline
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0768.jpg

CC spread to Quohaito

 
Looks very good, vranasm. I guess we can just finish off mansa and if we want continue with Arabia, as Hatty will have her hands full with Mehmed, while we have impressive stacks at her border anyway.

I assume Brian is up, he said he'd be back by today...
 
Ok, I've looked at the save, and especially the religious position:
attachment.php


We're one city and nine temples short of the target (temples due solely to conquerors), so I propose taking Debre off wealth and building some missionaries there to get the last city converted. And of course putting up a round of Christian temples where I can.

Now where are the best places for the remaining cathedrals, do we want to keep them all in our original core?

In general terms I'll kill off Mansa and leave it at that for now. It will get us to roughly 40 cities well over the limit needed. If we want more cash we could try and pop a GPro for Debre there's 28gpt +boni available there from holy city.

Medicine is due in 4 so Zheng He will finally get to do something then. I'll probably switch Gondar over to Sushi when it spreads there for the empire wide effects.

As far as techs go I'm not too sure what we want. Jewellers are at MM which means Astro>Phys>Leccy>Radio and MM. There is a bit of dispute over whether Astro is worth it for the moment so I'd like to hear what the group says on this.
 

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Excellent vranasm! :)

The pathway that I'd go - given the commitment that we're making to a Cultural win, is to get Medicine and then head straight for Mass Media. I think that the loss of +25%:culture: will be made up with Broadway, Rock n Roll, Hollywood, Broadcast Towers, and Civilized Jewelers. Mehmed and Shaka could already be researching Electricity, and Broadway therefore could already be under some threat. An Observatory in Aksum wouldn't be a bad addition either.

If we're shooting for any :gp:s from now on, I think that they should be Great Artists. We'll want one for Civilized Jewelers, and the rest for bombing.

We are capable of taking Egypt-Arabia, but Hatshepsut's presence as an antagonist to Mehmed is arguably a good thing to preserve. This, I think is the big decision for the roster.

I see no harm in getting Confucian and Taoist Temples up for extra Confucian Academies and Taoist Pagodas in Lalibela and Addis Ababa ... I suspect Aksum won't need these quite so badly as it's likely to go Legendary first, but I see little harm in more multipliers there either.

I'm not too fussed where the Christian Cathedrals go other than I'd shoot for culturally pressed cities such as Khurasan where possible.

I'd look at civic switches soon, especially if we're not going after Egypt-Arabia. I'd love to get Democracy for Universal Suffrage though, and I'm not too sure how we can do it. A sneaky might be to reduce Mali down to one city, get it in a peace deal, and then re-declare in 10 turns to finish him off.

I'm going to be away for the next day-and-a-half ... best of luck!
 
I think we should closely watch balance of power between hatty and mehmed since we don't really want make Mehmed super strong.

We have GS and GP in Aksum which are waiting for starting GA? This is one thing that gets me confused... we talk about GA, but no one wants to actually start it :-).

I wouldn't switch from slavery until we get all MM cities and get the needed infra there, but can see us going into Rep/FS/caste/FM/OR. Not sure with the demo... doesn't click somehow with me, but I am strong antiUS player ;-).

We got some progress into Demo though, so we should probably trade for it easier. Ah SoL would be so great for us :-) (38 free people? yes please!), we should maybe check who will build it and ... :-)

Btw we still have not Forbidden palace. I initially wanted to place it in Persepolis, but since Kumbi Saleh has Versailles, we could actually build it in the west.
 
I'll have a quick look in a small while for FPalace site, and get back before playing. I'll hold off on the GAge too until Mali is safely Ethiopianised.
 
I'm thinking somewhere in the East actually for the FPalace. The west is relatively close to our capital and doesn't have a big enough hinterland (unless we go after Hatty). Kumblih Saleh is to far to the North to cover the whole East, so somewhere SE in the former Persian core may be best. I'll hold off on it for now.

I'm playing at the moment.
 
OK game is played, news in general:
1) Mansa Musa has left the building,
2) We've Sid's Sushi and it's spreading,
3) 1 1/2 hours is way too long for 10 turns.
4) I think Mehmet is throwing spies at us, someone is anyway and it's getting annoying.

Ok a log, if not exhaustive, nearly 40 cities negates that:

Turn 257:
Take Timbuktu, lose two cannons (68% + 81%).
Spoiler :
Timbuktu.jpg
Whatwedidntdestroy.jpg


Missionary spreads the Christianity (first try @ c.66% :w00t:)
Spoiler :
Mishissuccess.jpg


Turn 259:
Medicine>Physics
Found Sid's in Lalibela.

Turn 260:
Got two demands Bio from Shaka and war with Hatty from Mehmet. Refused both.

T262:
Did a few trades.
1) Clam>Stone with Shaka.
2) Two with Mehmet 1 resource, 1 Tech:
Spoiler :
Fishytrade.jpg

What are war elephants going to do at this stage?
Techietrade.jpg

I actually think I came out slightly ahead here.

Then I went off and captured Niani, for no losses:
Spoiler :
Niani.jpg
Moregoodies.jpg


Turn 265:
I took Gao for no losses (first cannon was a chance 31% odds evens out above), meaning that Mansa Musa has left the building:
Spoiler :
Gao.jpg
Notquiteasnice.jpg


Seeing as this game is won my conclusion shots are to do with the variant and the culture neccessities:
Spoiler :
Religious.jpg
Victory-1.jpg
Culture-3.jpg


I weeded out on the buildings, plopping down too many churches, but they may be handy for border cathedrals. I think we've about 8 Christian cathedrals at the moment also. Jails and other spy buildings when we unlock them are neccessary as there is significant spy sabotage at the moment.

As regards Execs Lali, Aksum and Addis are covered. I'd try to pump an artist out of Addis if we want Civ Jewellers as well.

I am on Electricity right now. We should consider where to put the wonders.

Uranium popped in 3 places, 1 under Matara, 1 N/NW of Adulis and 1 under a Lumbermill by Kufah.

Edit to deepen my time spent I had to replay the last turn due to forgetting to save, d'oh is me!
 

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Sounds good Brian! I think I may be up, but can't look at it now, so that'll be tomorrow (hopefully). Without seeing the save and with Mansa down, I guess my set will be more quiet. Will look to see to get some techs for all the corps and see what I can do about the spreading of executives. Where was Sistine again? :mischief:

Any suggestions are more than welcome of course. :)
 
Can we run a Golden Age yet? If so, we might want to switch to Caste/Pac to push out Great Artists.

I guess we're done with war unless someone attacks us. Should be able to pump the rest of the temples/cathedrals for the variant and the cruise to victory. Then continue to bribe hatty and mehmed into war every 10 turns.

Hatty had a pretty tremendous stack on her Otto borders at one point so she should put up a good fight against unit pumper Mehmed. Could be a long drawn out battle of attrition. We could close borders with Shaka to prevent him from crossing is troops to hit Hatty's backside.
 
Hatty atm has about 1/2 our forces and Mehmet is the soldier leader. If she sticks her neck out too far she's gassed.
 
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