Buster's Uncle
AC2 Owner
Fun Fact: 17 August, 2013, my first post in this thread, was, I believe, something under my tenth ever on this forum outside the SMACX folder - I got gigged points quick the first time I set foot out of AC, truth, for answering a question asked of me by another member in the last sub on CFC I would have expected to be run strictly. Sure, I was guilty of going off topic, which as they say in Futurama's Central Bureaucracy, is "Technically correct. -The best kind of correct!"
And that cost CFC four years before I posted again outside AC -where I trusted Petek to pull nothing lame/harsh on me- and then I posted here --- still feeling disrespected and insulted and peeved. I was afraid to tell that story in 2013, which was terribly frustrating -and then a stalker happened, and my frustration with staff response to same led me to bail a few pages back, boycotting CFC entirely for a year.
And when I returned, I began reading every. single. new. post. in. this. Site, which I've continued to do for four years as a long-term study of staff culture -and the member culture, too, which causes me to understand far better, on re-reading the thread, much Birdjaguar, in particular, told me.
I've also expanded my participation in the forum in the years since, checking A&E and World History and NES for new posts on my daily patrol and participating there when the whim struck - and I've made the acquaintance of a LOT more people and staffers.
-Also added enormously to my management background at AC2 and had many more failures and bad experiences in my own house, things I had little experience back then in the early days of AC2, near-infinitely more from an owner's seat.
And I was afraid to engage in the PDMA opening this post -even in this thread, where much was laudably tolerated- but now know the management and management culture a lot better, and can trust them to do no worse than respectful PM conversation telling me to knock it off.
---
The point being, I re-read this thread today and deem it important that I say two things:
1) I changed my mind about the OP suggestion that some form of moderator log thread be tried. I don't perceive the staff being unhappy with the appeals publishing experiment. If some feasible auto function could be worked out, I think it would be member-happiness-positive and nothing but, if we could run to Site and reference a sort of omnibus official action low-resolution thread to know better what's going on.
Transparency would be served, members would be empowered with greater knowledge of what's up, and I expect the main problem would involve management to figure out a setup little or no extra work and posts giving an appropriate level of info, enough to be useful to the common membership w/o embarrassing anyone unduly.
Tough to think of a way to rig it to work w/o being a lot of staff work ongoing -the only way it would tend to work out- and I can think of no middle ground between manual posting -deal-breaker, I'm sure- and hacking in an auto-feature for staff, which is a lot of work for TF. -But maybe an idea worth re-visiting anyway; I've only thought about it for a couple hours; there are hundreds and hundreds of clever brains here who may come by and point out a better way to do it.
Protip: do lock the thread.
2) I actually came off more rational and diplomatic in this thread than I remembered five years later - but not diplomatic enough, and I regret the times I veered -however I may have been provoked or not- into open ire and discourtesy, which were too often, a bit too intense.
That said, I walk back some of the criticisms, with the hindsight of five years, four of them doing my due diligence studying CFC - and I don't walk back the ideas and philosophy I advocated, notwithstanding some details my subsequent Adventures In Forum ManagementTM have taught me need altering.
No, the basic principals are still sound, the style I articulated for running my own house still works far more than otherwise.MaybeCertainly, the paradigm shift all at once I pushed was never going to happen, and not to do with bad management attitude -though I wasn't flat wrong or dreaming that- but it was just too big, a deal-breaker on the face of it.
I just don't know enough, studying the black box that is the Staff Room from outside and deducing much but not enough, to have much useful to suggest how implementing a kinder, gentler, more respectful management style and less-harsh ruleset ought to be tackled - that's something they have to work out, just as I was never going to be able to do any of the work of doing it for them.
-But it's still about leadership, whatever form best suits the individual leaders and the led. I'd venture that the profoundly contrarian, almost griefer, nature of too much of the membership here is as much a product of the forum culture already in place as each joined -and a related selection bias- as anything intrinsic to any given troublesome individual being just a bad egg.
It is better to lead by persuasion than rule by force, and I continue to prove that in practice to my own continuing satisfaction; leading is intrinsic to the very duties of any people-management position as well as enabled by the intrinsic prestige of the job. The power-balance favors the management over the members, and mobs never change. Positive change must, therefore, come from the top.
And the endgame to work for, the reason to try I wish I had told Bj back then, is something I'd think every person here in a position of responsibility should want: a mellower CFC forum culture should be considerably less frustrating and irritating to cope with and manage.
Ruling by force = pushback. -Always. It is human to push limits and game and subvert and wear down and subtly retaliate wherever a lack of choice is felt, if not to even simply vote with your feet. -I've both pushed back earlier in this thread, and voted with my feet for extended periods.
Leading by persuasion, tried first before sanctions and hammers wherever possible = people doing as they should because they want to = SO much less crap taken for keeping the place running and in good order.
If there are problems embedded in the culture causing problems for the leadership, the leaders ought to lead to better culture. The good eggs among the members deserve the respect, the bad eggs, many will surprise and turn out to be good when not provoked to whatever exasperating form of rebellion they employ as pushback...
Form a vision for a better CFC atmosphere, moderators; then share it and tell the people what's in it for them. I'm too outside to tell you the details, but far too inside for the last nine years I've been a member here to not see room and need for a mellower, more fun, CFC.
And that cost CFC four years before I posted again outside AC -where I trusted Petek to pull nothing lame/harsh on me- and then I posted here --- still feeling disrespected and insulted and peeved. I was afraid to tell that story in 2013, which was terribly frustrating -and then a stalker happened, and my frustration with staff response to same led me to bail a few pages back, boycotting CFC entirely for a year.
And when I returned, I began reading every. single. new. post. in. this. Site, which I've continued to do for four years as a long-term study of staff culture -and the member culture, too, which causes me to understand far better, on re-reading the thread, much Birdjaguar, in particular, told me.
I've also expanded my participation in the forum in the years since, checking A&E and World History and NES for new posts on my daily patrol and participating there when the whim struck - and I've made the acquaintance of a LOT more people and staffers.
-Also added enormously to my management background at AC2 and had many more failures and bad experiences in my own house, things I had little experience back then in the early days of AC2, near-infinitely more from an owner's seat.
And I was afraid to engage in the PDMA opening this post -even in this thread, where much was laudably tolerated- but now know the management and management culture a lot better, and can trust them to do no worse than respectful PM conversation telling me to knock it off.
---
The point being, I re-read this thread today and deem it important that I say two things:
1) I changed my mind about the OP suggestion that some form of moderator log thread be tried. I don't perceive the staff being unhappy with the appeals publishing experiment. If some feasible auto function could be worked out, I think it would be member-happiness-positive and nothing but, if we could run to Site and reference a sort of omnibus official action low-resolution thread to know better what's going on.
Transparency would be served, members would be empowered with greater knowledge of what's up, and I expect the main problem would involve management to figure out a setup little or no extra work and posts giving an appropriate level of info, enough to be useful to the common membership w/o embarrassing anyone unduly.
Tough to think of a way to rig it to work w/o being a lot of staff work ongoing -the only way it would tend to work out- and I can think of no middle ground between manual posting -deal-breaker, I'm sure- and hacking in an auto-feature for staff, which is a lot of work for TF. -But maybe an idea worth re-visiting anyway; I've only thought about it for a couple hours; there are hundreds and hundreds of clever brains here who may come by and point out a better way to do it.
Protip: do lock the thread.
2) I actually came off more rational and diplomatic in this thread than I remembered five years later - but not diplomatic enough, and I regret the times I veered -however I may have been provoked or not- into open ire and discourtesy, which were too often, a bit too intense.
That said, I walk back some of the criticisms, with the hindsight of five years, four of them doing my due diligence studying CFC - and I don't walk back the ideas and philosophy I advocated, notwithstanding some details my subsequent Adventures In Forum ManagementTM have taught me need altering.
No, the basic principals are still sound, the style I articulated for running my own house still works far more than otherwise.
I just don't know enough, studying the black box that is the Staff Room from outside and deducing much but not enough, to have much useful to suggest how implementing a kinder, gentler, more respectful management style and less-harsh ruleset ought to be tackled - that's something they have to work out, just as I was never going to be able to do any of the work of doing it for them.
-But it's still about leadership, whatever form best suits the individual leaders and the led. I'd venture that the profoundly contrarian, almost griefer, nature of too much of the membership here is as much a product of the forum culture already in place as each joined -and a related selection bias- as anything intrinsic to any given troublesome individual being just a bad egg.
It is better to lead by persuasion than rule by force, and I continue to prove that in practice to my own continuing satisfaction; leading is intrinsic to the very duties of any people-management position as well as enabled by the intrinsic prestige of the job. The power-balance favors the management over the members, and mobs never change. Positive change must, therefore, come from the top.
And the endgame to work for, the reason to try I wish I had told Bj back then, is something I'd think every person here in a position of responsibility should want: a mellower CFC forum culture should be considerably less frustrating and irritating to cope with and manage.
Ruling by force = pushback. -Always. It is human to push limits and game and subvert and wear down and subtly retaliate wherever a lack of choice is felt, if not to even simply vote with your feet. -I've both pushed back earlier in this thread, and voted with my feet for extended periods.
Leading by persuasion, tried first before sanctions and hammers wherever possible = people doing as they should because they want to = SO much less crap taken for keeping the place running and in good order.
If there are problems embedded in the culture causing problems for the leadership, the leaders ought to lead to better culture. The good eggs among the members deserve the respect, the bad eggs, many will surprise and turn out to be good when not provoked to whatever exasperating form of rebellion they employ as pushback...
Form a vision for a better CFC atmosphere, moderators; then share it and tell the people what's in it for them. I'm too outside to tell you the details, but far too inside for the last nine years I've been a member here to not see room and need for a mellower, more fun, CFC.
