Pere - 001
- Thread starter predesad
- Start date
DBear
unbeliever
Yeah, we're doing ok. This is my first emperor succession game, I'd like to see how it turns out.
Preturn -- Ok, we're behind in population now, but that was gonna happen.
When did we get into a war with the 'Quois? That's not good...
Also they have a city in Egypt...
Our golden age is over. We did ok, but A Few Things about our infra builds...
First, we should have built markets before libraries. When running max science, markets add to science because we can run a higher sci rate with them. But libs do nothing for our unit support...that's why markets before libs.
Second, our northern cities need courts.
Third, our core river cities have nothing??!!?? One of them is at size 1...was it making settlers during our GA? Woah, that was a waste... Those two cities really should have both markets and libs right now, we'd be much better off...
(I) Make peace with Gandhi and get 20g
T1 (530AD) Make an elite knight on a 'Quois MW
(I) Egypt wants 23g, I tell her to blow off...she doesn't declare.
T2 (540AD) Make peace with Mongols for 156g and 1gpt. Heh, now we can support max research almost all the way through printing press!
(I) zzz
T3 (550AD) zzz
(I) Make peace with England, just to hurt their rep
T4 (560AD) zzz
(I) zzz
T5 (570AD) zzz
(I) Extend peace with Celts
T6 (580AD) Land 12 troops near Centralia
I sell around communication with the 'Quois for some chump change
(I) We get hurt a bit by MW's
T7 (590AD) Battle of Centralia...
Elite sword kills MW, netting a GL! I put him on a boat...
I kill a few MW's and take Centralia...
Ok, we're gonna get killed in the IT, they got MW's all over the place and our troops are wounded, so I make peace with the 'Quois for 2g
I get spices from them for poly and chump change to replace our war happiness. (I don't mind if they get feud...they don't have iron!)
(I) We get printing press
T8 (600AD) Get Education from Egypt for some communications, PP, 41g, and 20gpt
Get Gunpowder from Rome for some communications, PP and 33gpt
The flip probabilities on Centralia are horrible, but there's not much we can do about that...
(I) zzz
T9 (610AD) zzz
(I) zzz
T10 (620AD) zzz
Ok, so it's gonna be a slow next 15-20 turns. A Few Things...
I hope you guys are ok with my making peace with the Iroquois -- they have a lot of MW's. Our invasion force was going to get decimated, and I couldn't hold Centralia. This way, at least we got a foothold in 'Quoisland...
I screwed up in trying to bring our leader back to our homeland. What we want is a knight army in Centralia. Send him back to do that -- don't make the army in Spain! Then we can't transport it... Please please please don't misuse him by building the FP or something! Our FP will be done in 15 in Rusicade.
I rethought and set our specialists on taxmen for the moment, so we can build up enough gold to rush the temple in Centralia. I don't want to see that flip, and it's under a lot of pressure.
It ended up being a really bad idea building libs before markets; since I had to give away the farm to get gunpowder and education, we're not doing any research for the next 20! And we're paying for all those libs. If we had built markets first, we would be building libs now, and things would be much prettier. (I'm convinced those trades were the right thing to do, since we got discounts with PP and some contacts, they are cheaper in the long run...)
During the war, the 'Quois were sending galleys down the western coast of Spain to attack our unmanned cities there. I kept two knights doing zone defense in that area to counter their landings. We might want to repeat that strategy when we attack again.
Banking and Music Theory are being passed around the AI's, the Babs are running away on tech (they started on Smith's!)...and there's not much we can do about that...
That's all I can think of. Please everyone take a look at the save and give suggestions -- we're holding on, but we're behind the mainland in a lot of ways. I'm not posting a picture since there's not much to show. I gotta get better at grabbing pictures of stuff as I go, like the battle of Centralia, to make it more interesting for lurkers...sorry guys, I'll do better next time.
Teh Save
When did we get into a war with the 'Quois? That's not good...
Also they have a city in Egypt...
Our golden age is over. We did ok, but A Few Things about our infra builds...
First, we should have built markets before libraries. When running max science, markets add to science because we can run a higher sci rate with them. But libs do nothing for our unit support...that's why markets before libs.
Second, our northern cities need courts.
Third, our core river cities have nothing??!!?? One of them is at size 1...was it making settlers during our GA? Woah, that was a waste... Those two cities really should have both markets and libs right now, we'd be much better off...
(I) Make peace with Gandhi and get 20g
T1 (530AD) Make an elite knight on a 'Quois MW
(I) Egypt wants 23g, I tell her to blow off...she doesn't declare.
T2 (540AD) Make peace with Mongols for 156g and 1gpt. Heh, now we can support max research almost all the way through printing press!
(I) zzz
T3 (550AD) zzz
(I) Make peace with England, just to hurt their rep
T4 (560AD) zzz
(I) zzz
T5 (570AD) zzz
(I) Extend peace with Celts
T6 (580AD) Land 12 troops near Centralia
I sell around communication with the 'Quois for some chump change
(I) We get hurt a bit by MW's
T7 (590AD) Battle of Centralia...
Elite sword kills MW, netting a GL! I put him on a boat...
I kill a few MW's and take Centralia...
Ok, we're gonna get killed in the IT, they got MW's all over the place and our troops are wounded, so I make peace with the 'Quois for 2g
I get spices from them for poly and chump change to replace our war happiness. (I don't mind if they get feud...they don't have iron!)
(I) We get printing press
T8 (600AD) Get Education from Egypt for some communications, PP, 41g, and 20gpt
Get Gunpowder from Rome for some communications, PP and 33gpt
The flip probabilities on Centralia are horrible, but there's not much we can do about that...
(I) zzz
T9 (610AD) zzz
(I) zzz
T10 (620AD) zzz
Ok, so it's gonna be a slow next 15-20 turns. A Few Things...
I hope you guys are ok with my making peace with the Iroquois -- they have a lot of MW's. Our invasion force was going to get decimated, and I couldn't hold Centralia. This way, at least we got a foothold in 'Quoisland...
I screwed up in trying to bring our leader back to our homeland. What we want is a knight army in Centralia. Send him back to do that -- don't make the army in Spain! Then we can't transport it... Please please please don't misuse him by building the FP or something! Our FP will be done in 15 in Rusicade.
I rethought and set our specialists on taxmen for the moment, so we can build up enough gold to rush the temple in Centralia. I don't want to see that flip, and it's under a lot of pressure.
It ended up being a really bad idea building libs before markets; since I had to give away the farm to get gunpowder and education, we're not doing any research for the next 20! And we're paying for all those libs. If we had built markets first, we would be building libs now, and things would be much prettier. (I'm convinced those trades were the right thing to do, since we got discounts with PP and some contacts, they are cheaper in the long run...)
During the war, the 'Quois were sending galleys down the western coast of Spain to attack our unmanned cities there. I kept two knights doing zone defense in that area to counter their landings. We might want to repeat that strategy when we attack again.
Banking and Music Theory are being passed around the AI's, the Babs are running away on tech (they started on Smith's!)...and there's not much we can do about that...
That's all I can think of. Please everyone take a look at the save and give suggestions -- we're holding on, but we're behind the mainland in a lot of ways. I'm not posting a picture since there's not much to show. I gotta get better at grabbing pictures of stuff as I go, like the battle of Centralia, to make it more interesting for lurkers...sorry guys, I'll do better next time.
Teh Save
gunnerxtr
King
good turns mach!
iroquois and england signed an alliance against us during my turns.
nice job getting a toehold in iroquoisland
iroquois and england signed an alliance against us during my turns.
nice job getting a toehold in iroquoisland
Hee, thanks. I think my key decision was to simply let the Iroquois make their landings. I could have risked a sea campaign to clear out their galleys, but we barely had enough galleys available for a sizable landing. So while they were busy sending landing parties to Spain's west coast, I snuck our galleys up the east coast to make the landing.gunner said:
Also I brought two mercs along with the party, which was huge. We got attacked by about 5 MW's just after landing, and those mercs saved our walnuts. We lost one, and a knight, but enough units stayed alive to take the city, pick off wounded MW's, and make peace. I think I killed 7 MW's on my turns, and saw about 5 more...
- Roster -
mach - Just Played
dbear - UP
predesad - skip
elmarae - on the deck
gunner - below deck
DBear
unbeliever
OK, I took a look at the save, and man do I have questions:
0) 620: I don't know how I'm going to keep Centralia from flipping. According to Mapstat, we need a garrison of 53 to keep it from flipping. We have 11, which gives about 5.8% chance, or roughly 1 in 18--the chance you'll roll a 2 or 12 on a pair of dice. Over several turns--them's bad odds.
Gigthis can be moved 1nw to allow a town between it and Toledo. The settler is heading 2se of Iol, next to fish. Another can be built between Zouchis and Rusgouniae.
Babylon has over 4K gold! How on earth are they doing it?
I know the idea is to ferry the knights and Hamilcar over to Centralia so the army can be formed there, but how do we keep Centralia from flipping before they get there? I sez we at least try to grow the city so we can get some of our people in there. Might even add the settlers to it instead of finishing up the ICS. We can always make more.
0) 620: I don't know how I'm going to keep Centralia from flipping. According to Mapstat, we need a garrison of 53 to keep it from flipping. We have 11, which gives about 5.8% chance, or roughly 1 in 18--the chance you'll roll a 2 or 12 on a pair of dice. Over several turns--them's bad odds.
Gigthis can be moved 1nw to allow a town between it and Toledo. The settler is heading 2se of Iol, next to fish. Another can be built between Zouchis and Rusgouniae.
Babylon has over 4K gold! How on earth are they doing it?
I know the idea is to ferry the knights and Hamilcar over to Centralia so the army can be formed there, but how do we keep Centralia from flipping before they get there? I sez we at least try to grow the city so we can get some of our people in there. Might even add the settlers to it instead of finishing up the ICS. We can always make more.
Elma posted a dotmap awhile ago with our (IIRC) 19 city ICS plan, so check that out for settling locations.
Hm, we can't grow Centralia the normal way, as it can only do 1fpt. Maybe you can merge a worker or two into it? That's one thought.
God I hope I didn't set us up for disaster. The best thing we can do is rush that temple in Centralia, once we have the money. That means it needs to hang on and not flip for about 10 turns. If I had thought, I would have started us on max gold two turns earlier, and we'd be much better off...
I guess another thing you could do is abandon Centralia and re-settle it as fast as you can. There should be enough room, as long as the 'Quois don't get there first. Looking at the last save, that settler in Spain could be there by your turn 6...
Judgement call, and honestly this is outside my experience...
Hm, we can't grow Centralia the normal way, as it can only do 1fpt. Maybe you can merge a worker or two into it? That's one thought.
God I hope I didn't set us up for disaster. The best thing we can do is rush that temple in Centralia, once we have the money. That means it needs to hang on and not flip for about 10 turns. If I had thought, I would have started us on max gold two turns earlier, and we'd be much better off...
I guess another thing you could do is abandon Centralia and re-settle it as fast as you can. There should be enough room, as long as the 'Quois don't get there first. Looking at the last save, that settler in Spain could be there by your turn 6...
Judgement call, and honestly this is outside my experience...
Here's the dotmap again.
There are 3 towns we have to abandon (Toledo, Iol and Cartho Nova) then resettle in the places nearby.
I recommend we only clear and road the area. Mining isn't going to do much good for that area.
There are 3 towns we have to abandon (Toledo, Iol and Cartho Nova) then resettle in the places nearby.
I recommend we only clear and road the area. Mining isn't going to do much good for that area.
DBear
unbeliever
0) 620: After deliberation, I decide to abandon Centralia. This leaves an area of 4 squares not taken, and I move the units to occupy those points. It will take about 6 turns to get a settler over there, but I don't think we could've held Centralia that long. Turn lux up, as Lep Mag will expand next turn and will riot without it.
Why is Sulcis building a courthouse when even working the desert it can only produce a max of 3 shields? I let it go, as it would be a waste to switch to harbor. Rusaddir getting the FP should help as well. Switch Theveste to settler.
1) 630: Cadiz + Nora courthouse-->knight. Ferry leader and knights over to Iroquoia.
2) 640: Lep Mag knight-->knight. Hadrumentum market-->rax.
3) 650: Theveste settler--knight. I used ship chaining to get the settler over quicker. If this is seen as a cheat I can do this one over, but it's allowed in GotM. Personally, I don't consider it any more exploitive than the ICS on Old Spain.
4) 660: Carthage knight-->uni. Lep Min knight-->aqua. Cirta galley-->market. Centralia rebuilt 1e of ruins. Move everyone on Iroquoia to Centralia. 1 Zama founded.
5) 670: Sabratha market-->knight. Mapstat is much better this time. We have a 1.3% chance of flipping, but we only need a garrison of 25 and we already have 16.
6) 680: Oea galley-->market. Ferrying more units and workers over to prevent the flip.
7) 690: Galley heads sw to explore sea lane. Nothing there.
8) 700: Cadiz knight-->uni. Joined worker to Centralia. 1 Tunis built. I'm running out of Carthaginian names, so I used cities in that area for names.
9) 710: Iroquois allys w/Babylon vs. Celts. Hadrumentum rax-->knight.
10) 720: Rusicade rax-->aqua. Nora knight-->rax. Shoulda had Nora build rax first, didn't catch it. Flipping chance is down to 0.6%. Just a few more troops will make it safe. Realize I screwed up the ICS by building 1 Zama. 1 Iol should be 1s, 1 Toledo should be 1sw, 1 Zama should be 1ne. This allows 2 more towns on the coast.
Why is Sulcis building a courthouse when even working the desert it can only produce a max of 3 shields? I let it go, as it would be a waste to switch to harbor. Rusaddir getting the FP should help as well. Switch Theveste to settler.
1) 630: Cadiz + Nora courthouse-->knight. Ferry leader and knights over to Iroquoia.
2) 640: Lep Mag knight-->knight. Hadrumentum market-->rax.
3) 650: Theveste settler--knight. I used ship chaining to get the settler over quicker. If this is seen as a cheat I can do this one over, but it's allowed in GotM. Personally, I don't consider it any more exploitive than the ICS on Old Spain.
4) 660: Carthage knight-->uni. Lep Min knight-->aqua. Cirta galley-->market. Centralia rebuilt 1e of ruins. Move everyone on Iroquoia to Centralia. 1 Zama founded.
5) 670: Sabratha market-->knight. Mapstat is much better this time. We have a 1.3% chance of flipping, but we only need a garrison of 25 and we already have 16.
6) 680: Oea galley-->market. Ferrying more units and workers over to prevent the flip.
7) 690: Galley heads sw to explore sea lane. Nothing there.
8) 700: Cadiz knight-->uni. Joined worker to Centralia. 1 Tunis built. I'm running out of Carthaginian names, so I used cities in that area for names.
9) 710: Iroquois allys w/Babylon vs. Celts. Hadrumentum rax-->knight.
10) 720: Rusicade rax-->aqua. Nora knight-->rax. Shoulda had Nora build rax first, didn't catch it. Flipping chance is down to 0.6%. Just a few more troops will make it safe. Realize I screwed up the ICS by building 1 Zama. 1 Iol should be 1s, 1 Toledo should be 1sw, 1 Zama should be 1ne. This allows 2 more towns on the coast.
Pwshew! Glad to hear you were able to hang on to that corner of Iroquasia. 
The ship chaining is fine with me...
I'm up in two other games tonight, so I don't know if I'll get around to looking at the save, but I'll try. Meanwhile, I guess we're still preparing to push to the spices. And what shall we do about this tech situation? Our gpt deals will last another, what, 8 turns? I see nobody has chemistry yet, so I guess we should push toward that. Maybe we won't be the last to it, which should give us a leg up. Seems like a long shot, but I don't have a better idea...
- Roster -
mach -
dbear - just played
predesad - skip
elmarae - UP
gunner - on deck
The ship chaining is fine with me...
I'm up in two other games tonight, so I don't know if I'll get around to looking at the save, but I'll try. Meanwhile, I guess we're still preparing to push to the spices. And what shall we do about this tech situation? Our gpt deals will last another, what, 8 turns? I see nobody has chemistry yet, so I guess we should push toward that. Maybe we won't be the last to it, which should give us a leg up. Seems like a long shot, but I don't have a better idea...
- Roster -
mach -
dbear - just played
predesad - skip
elmarae - UP
gunner - on deck
Get better, elma. 
predesad
Emperor
okay guys, seems you are doing a great job w/out me, i think i will be able to play whewn my turn comes up again so I can be taken off skip
gunnerxtr
King
fine with me i cant play today, and im not sure when i will be able to....
predesad
Emperor
thanx gunner, and Mach for the suggestion, i go tit now and hopefully play tonight, if i can get caught up on what's going on in the game
predesad
Emperor
ok, i got in 7 turns last night & was gonna finish today, but i think i had better just hang it up and let the next player have it because i have a hectic schedule the next 2 days:
preturn:
-Theveste mm for growth, it is by a lake and should be allowed to grow to at least size 7
-Nora looks like a fishing village to me, w/ extra bonus of fish, changed production from barracks to aqueduct
-Utica - library -> university my thoughts are it is by a river, needs to grow above size 6 so mm will be necessary, also a good commerce spot
-Leptis Magna - knight -> harbor, looks like a good fishing village to me, then those grassland tiles can be given to be worked by Theveste when it is allowed to grow, of course, maybe more knights are needed for a war effort against Iroquois
1-730-moved knights toward iroquois, moved some workers to get to mainland, more work to do there, i think, workers at centralia moved into iroquois territory to explore, they wont get booted and there is no point in mining those hills
2-740-moved 2 knights into centralia, continue working on mines in old spain, i guess for lack of anything better, but prolly just a waste of time, too bad no fresh water for irrigation
-mongols ask for peace extension, we agree, for now
3-750-nothing much
-theveste - knight -> granary; dogpile seems to be on the celts, perhaps this will be used as an advantage in the near future
4-760-nothing much
-leptis magna - harbor -> aqueduct; sabratha - knight -> knight
5-770-lining up ship chain to run from mainland to iroquois, rushed tmeple in centralia, workers being brougt to mainland to chop forest and mine some mountains, changed production in sabratha & hama-something to merc & med inf respectively, we need some mps, w/ temple build the need for more units in centralia should not be so pressing, i suppose after some more infrastructure we can load up for war against the iroquois, if that is the plan
-ham-something - med inf -> granary, this city is by a river and will make an excellent fishing village, i suggest once granry is built mm to get citizens off mined hills and let it grow, centralia - temple -> barracks (mixed feelings, barracks could help with war against iroquois, a place for quick unit healing if needed, a harbor would allow us to grow it a little or keep the status quo of 2 citizens, one a specialist, otherwise converting to specialist starves city), russadir - FP -> marketplace, could make a nice fishing village & market gives immediate benefit over anything else, FP there seems to have done little overall for commerce, our corruption went from 46 to 37
6-780-tried to negotiate a deal with the celts, they have chemistry & are at war with everyone but the english and ourselves (& the iroquois who they do not know) but the deal would have cost 25gpt plus war with 5 civs meaning a drastic reduction in trading partners, on the plus side, if the celts agreed to peace with even one of these civs the deal would be cancelled and we could then freely negotiate peace with all those civs and the gpt deal cancelled, but decided against it; irrigated plains after forest chop
-suprise suprise, the iroquois did boot our workers after some exploration, hippo - market -> granary
7-790-extend peace with iroquois and buy spices for theology (they have nothing else to offer and we need the spices)
at this piont i had saved & went to bed, not really sure what the immediate needs are, but i was planning some mining on some mountains by those workers i brought over to get more production when needed, also it is getting real clsoe to time to start using our fishing villages as fishing villages, we need to clear out room for our river cities to grow and work tiles with other cities working coast / sea tiles. getting 3 MPs in each of those cities and letting them grow as big as we can should be a high priority, IMHO. There is also an option to sign an MA against the Celts with the Babs for 400+ gold. I hesitated in this because I was still uncertain about trying to work a chem deal.
no pic, because one is not really necessary.
preturn:
-Theveste mm for growth, it is by a lake and should be allowed to grow to at least size 7
-Nora looks like a fishing village to me, w/ extra bonus of fish, changed production from barracks to aqueduct
-Utica - library -> university my thoughts are it is by a river, needs to grow above size 6 so mm will be necessary, also a good commerce spot
-Leptis Magna - knight -> harbor, looks like a good fishing village to me, then those grassland tiles can be given to be worked by Theveste when it is allowed to grow, of course, maybe more knights are needed for a war effort against Iroquois
1-730-moved knights toward iroquois, moved some workers to get to mainland, more work to do there, i think, workers at centralia moved into iroquois territory to explore, they wont get booted and there is no point in mining those hills
2-740-moved 2 knights into centralia, continue working on mines in old spain, i guess for lack of anything better, but prolly just a waste of time, too bad no fresh water for irrigation
-mongols ask for peace extension, we agree, for now
3-750-nothing much
-theveste - knight -> granary; dogpile seems to be on the celts, perhaps this will be used as an advantage in the near future
4-760-nothing much
-leptis magna - harbor -> aqueduct; sabratha - knight -> knight
5-770-lining up ship chain to run from mainland to iroquois, rushed tmeple in centralia, workers being brougt to mainland to chop forest and mine some mountains, changed production in sabratha & hama-something to merc & med inf respectively, we need some mps, w/ temple build the need for more units in centralia should not be so pressing, i suppose after some more infrastructure we can load up for war against the iroquois, if that is the plan
-ham-something - med inf -> granary, this city is by a river and will make an excellent fishing village, i suggest once granry is built mm to get citizens off mined hills and let it grow, centralia - temple -> barracks (mixed feelings, barracks could help with war against iroquois, a place for quick unit healing if needed, a harbor would allow us to grow it a little or keep the status quo of 2 citizens, one a specialist, otherwise converting to specialist starves city), russadir - FP -> marketplace, could make a nice fishing village & market gives immediate benefit over anything else, FP there seems to have done little overall for commerce, our corruption went from 46 to 37
6-780-tried to negotiate a deal with the celts, they have chemistry & are at war with everyone but the english and ourselves (& the iroquois who they do not know) but the deal would have cost 25gpt plus war with 5 civs meaning a drastic reduction in trading partners, on the plus side, if the celts agreed to peace with even one of these civs the deal would be cancelled and we could then freely negotiate peace with all those civs and the gpt deal cancelled, but decided against it; irrigated plains after forest chop
-suprise suprise, the iroquois did boot our workers after some exploration, hippo - market -> granary
7-790-extend peace with iroquois and buy spices for theology (they have nothing else to offer and we need the spices)
at this piont i had saved & went to bed, not really sure what the immediate needs are, but i was planning some mining on some mountains by those workers i brought over to get more production when needed, also it is getting real clsoe to time to start using our fishing villages as fishing villages, we need to clear out room for our river cities to grow and work tiles with other cities working coast / sea tiles. getting 3 MPs in each of those cities and letting them grow as big as we can should be a high priority, IMHO. There is also an option to sign an MA against the Celts with the Babs for 400+ gold. I hesitated in this because I was still uncertain about trying to work a chem deal.
no pic, because one is not really necessary.
gunnerxtr
King
good turns, so who's up? me? if so i might need a skip...
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