DBear
unbeliever
Um, Pred, why trade for spices when we were going to take it from them when the treaty expired? That's what the garrison at Centralia was for.
Pere - 001
- Thread starter predesad
- Start date
Well, the spices trade occurred since we extended the peace treaty -- since we're locked in peace for the next 20, we might as well get the spices for the duration. But why extend that peace? Did you judge we didn't have enough troops up there, pred?
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gunner - on deck
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predesad
Emperor
Mach said:
No, I didnt think we had enough troops up there yet & our lack of defense in Spain worried me. I had not really mentioned it, there was an abundance of galleys ferrying around the area in and out of view. If they get a few mounted warriors in Old Spain they could rip us apart there with what we have in our garrisons, IMO. Also, guess as a consequence of having not been around, I had not got the impression we were going to immediately invade the Iroquois once that intial peace treaty expired, that was a mistake on my part, not asking before making the trade, but on that last turn, our deal for the spices had expired and we really needed the spices, I was not thinking about war immediately, so I tried to make a deal to get them. I had hoped that simply extending the peace would be enough to get spices, but it was not. My advice if an immediate war is the plan is to continually extort them and violate their borders, etc to provoke them into declaring. Sorry guys, I tried to read through everything, but there were several pages & I never got a full impression of when the next war would occur. Production in main cities was so geared for infrastructure with but a few cities producing units, I was more under the impression we were trying to get our core capable of supporting self research and that that might be a higher priority than the war.
To sum it up, prolly a bad move, but for good reasons of my own, but still, my apologies because I fully understand the other point of view. I should not have taken that turn but should have waited for the next cycle so to have a better view of what was going on. Sorry guys.
No no, don't apologize! We hadn't really spoken of when we'd start the next Iroquois war, so it was a judgement call, and you may have made the correct one. They had a lot of MW's when I invaded them 20 turns ago. IMO the key to our next war with them would be our ability to stand up to their MWs until our knight army can find and pillage their horses. If we don't have enough troops to weather that storm and still take some cities while the army is elsewhere, then you did the right thing. (I could be wrong, but I don't think our next war with them will be one of extermination -- we're just not strong enough for that.)pred said:
Just so you know, I dealt with the defense of Spain with just a few knights on zone defense. It was easy enough...and kinda fun to watch them chase undefended cities with MWs just to have them defeated. But I wouldn't expect them to make many landings next time, with us already on their island. I understand your point about their boats already in the water...some zone defense should take care of that next time, too. I guess I'm just saying I don't think we need any strong defenses in Spain.
predesad
Emperor
No, I don't think we need strong defenses in Spain, but we do need enough to play zone defense & these should be knights for the extra movement, IMO & IIRC, there are only swords / med inf in Spain. We should count on at least one landing from the Iroquois on Spain, but the chances of such a landing I think will go down as time passes between the last war and this one. & yes, they have a lot of MWs, my "invading" workers spotted a bunch of htem moving here and there. Also, I was hoping to "illegally" scout more of their territory with a couple workers.
I think our next war should be extermination, we should take their land as soon as we are able to help our own economy, I really like what was done in Spain with the ICS, the Iroquois have fresh water, so we can support more specialists if we could repeat that maneuver.
I think our next war should be extermination, we should take their land as soon as we are able to help our own economy, I really like what was done in Spain with the ICS, the Iroquois have fresh water, so we can support more specialists if we could repeat that maneuver.
gunnerxtr
King
with my busy scheduele and my inferior warmongering abilities i would rather not play the war turns on this just to let you guys know..... 
A plan I had in the back of my mind and that I've now started to think on during my stay in bed. Was to jump our palace to the mainland when we get a sizeable foothold and then ICS the 3 islands to provide beakers and/or coins.
Edit: Just noticed I am up: Got it
Edit: Just noticed I am up: Got it
predesad
Emperor
Elmarae said:
Was it really in the works to get a sizable hold on the mainland, and is that really going to be feasible? It means playing warmonger for quite a while. It is not so much that i am against this approach but I would really like a drawn out plan for incorporating this idea, because such a move would, IMO, hamper our bid for space race. If we are going to try that then perhaps it would be best to go for domination.
Don't take my comments as objections, just curious about how this would play out. ON a side note, once we claim the Iroquois island we would have every strategic resource available at this time (iron, horses, saltpeter) and would be capable of massing an army, resource wise. I think if we go to the mainland (not possible until magnetism / navigation) we switch from space race to domination.
Well it is more a plan for the future if it looks viable. If we take a sizeable slice of the mainland then we ICS the islands after jumping the palace over there and making our core on the mainland for faster reinforcements etc, without having to ferry units over the ocean. I'm not set in stone about it but it was just a thought.
I'm going to be more delayed with playing my turns. I have a doctors appointment and other things to take care of. If the next player can play I'll swap.
I'm going to be more delayed with playing my turns. I have a doctors appointment and other things to take care of. If the next player can play I'll swap.
predesad
Emperor
Elmarae, I am inclined to not go to the mainland ever, I don't even so much as care if we ever even put a unit on the mainland period, let alone take any cities. My thoughts about our strategy are:
1 - take over iroquois island
2 - improve infrastructure of current core
**(1 & 2 being done somewhat simultaneously)
3 - focus on infrastructure with a minimum # of units, enough to defend ourselves form an overseas attack and keep the AI from constantly trying to extort us
4 - ICS iroquois island, explore beneifts of FP to see if any of the southern "spanish" cities could yield positive benefits beyond merely ICS / wealth
5 - focus on infracstructure
6 - support self research and keep up w/ AI, brokering as much as possible, hope to import lux, provoke wars in which we would be silent partners to disrupt trades to free up said lux
7 - did i mention focus on infrastructure??
8 - build Apollo and Space Ship parts and launch
IMHO, by trying to invade the mainland we will distract ourselves from the goal and our civ will suffer, we cannot fall seriously behind in tech and hope to win space race, our economy given our lands is going to be fragile (hopefully improved when fishing villages are fully operational) Getting a nice chunk of the mainland and ICS the 3 islands would be more feasible if we did not have to wait for navigation / magnetism. This means the AI will be nearly in the industrial age or already in the industrial age when we are preparing to invade, which means rails. By the time we do get the sizable chunk of land we would then be hardpressed to get our new infrastructure up and running once the palace jump is made (any conquered cities will automatically lack libraries and unis because of the culture factor) Also to consider, having our core on the mainland leave sus much more vulnerable to attack which further distracts from Space Race. As it is, all we really need for defense is a decent size patrol to watch for a stack of invading ships and then play Mach's zone defense if we do not wipe out the force before a landing is made. Using our patrol we can easily determine the max size of any invasion force by the number of transorts / galleons / etc and be fully prepared to meet the attack, our island is a fortress for the Space Race, IMO.
However, should you deem that a change to Domination is in order then your idea is prolly a good one. Perhaps I have tunnel vision or am failing to see the whole of your idea, but I am always interested in fresh approaches. But as you said, it was an idea "for the future if it was viable" Unless warmongering efforts are undertaken to make it viable I don't it will be.
btw, it's good to be back and able to discuss strat.
anyway, I am interested in listening if you have an alternative thought for why we should go to the mainland.
1 - take over iroquois island
2 - improve infrastructure of current core
**(1 & 2 being done somewhat simultaneously)
3 - focus on infrastructure with a minimum # of units, enough to defend ourselves form an overseas attack and keep the AI from constantly trying to extort us
4 - ICS iroquois island, explore beneifts of FP to see if any of the southern "spanish" cities could yield positive benefits beyond merely ICS / wealth
5 - focus on infracstructure
6 - support self research and keep up w/ AI, brokering as much as possible, hope to import lux, provoke wars in which we would be silent partners to disrupt trades to free up said lux
7 - did i mention focus on infrastructure??
8 - build Apollo and Space Ship parts and launch
IMHO, by trying to invade the mainland we will distract ourselves from the goal and our civ will suffer, we cannot fall seriously behind in tech and hope to win space race, our economy given our lands is going to be fragile (hopefully improved when fishing villages are fully operational) Getting a nice chunk of the mainland and ICS the 3 islands would be more feasible if we did not have to wait for navigation / magnetism. This means the AI will be nearly in the industrial age or already in the industrial age when we are preparing to invade, which means rails. By the time we do get the sizable chunk of land we would then be hardpressed to get our new infrastructure up and running once the palace jump is made (any conquered cities will automatically lack libraries and unis because of the culture factor) Also to consider, having our core on the mainland leave sus much more vulnerable to attack which further distracts from Space Race. As it is, all we really need for defense is a decent size patrol to watch for a stack of invading ships and then play Mach's zone defense if we do not wipe out the force before a landing is made. Using our patrol we can easily determine the max size of any invasion force by the number of transorts / galleons / etc and be fully prepared to meet the attack, our island is a fortress for the Space Race, IMO.
However, should you deem that a change to Domination is in order then your idea is prolly a good one. Perhaps I have tunnel vision or am failing to see the whole of your idea, but I am always interested in fresh approaches. But as you said, it was an idea "for the future if it was viable" Unless warmongering efforts are undertaken to make it viable I don't it will be.
btw, it's good to be back and able to discuss strat.
anyway, I am interested in listening if you have an alternative thought for why we should go to the mainland.
I guess it's the warmonger in me... I don't like having to ferry units across the ocean and by making our production core on the mainland through conquest and jumping the palace we could slowly take the rest of the lands.
But if we are aiming for a SS Victory, then a more reserved approach is to be made. I've never done a SS Victory before, I'm too aggressive, that patch of ground over there always looks more greener than the patch I have.
But if we are aiming for a SS Victory, then a more reserved approach is to be made. I've never done a SS Victory before, I'm too aggressive, that patch of ground over there always looks more greener than the patch I have.
I agree with pred, I think that invading the mainland for domination would be difficult and long, so we should go to space. And in that case, invading the mainland for fun and land would simply delay our victory. So we should take the 'Quois, then turtle up and defend...and research, which is why I like the ICS plan; it brings beakers.
On that note, keep an eye on chemistry, elma. I think it is currently a monopoly on the mainland. Keep researching it full blast. If it starts to get passed around, try to buy it (we should get a discount) before the last civ gets it, so maybe we can get a 2fer or 3fer and catch up a bit.
On that note, keep an eye on chemistry, elma. I think it is currently a monopoly on the mainland. Keep researching it full blast. If it starts to get passed around, try to buy it (we should get a discount) before the last civ gets it, so maybe we can get a 2fer or 3fer and catch up a bit.
predesad
Emperor
Elmarae said:
That's what I thought, and I must admit the warmonger in me says, "Yea, let's load up and go take the mainland." But I think realistically we have a better shot at SS than domination, resource distribution could be a problem but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
678910
predesad
Emperor
Elmarae what are the prospects of taking the turn, not trying to rush you, just checking in, I know you've been sick and all.
predesad
Emperor
yeah, i saw the swap, but didn't seem like any takers, tomorrow afternoon will be fine if no swap
predesad
Emperor
yes, we need to continue, Elmarae did you just want to take a skip?
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