Pere - 001

[predesad]

I'm not sure of the three non-coastal northern towns -- they seem spaced too close together. (I'm thinking we may be heading toward a diplo or space win...) Maybe we can found one of those three cities? We can always abandon it later...

I figured that might be the plan, benefit from squeezing in as many cities as we could get righ tnow, then later abandon a couple interior cities if we needed to allow other cities to grow, but we'll have to adjust accordingly as we grow and everyone is going to have their different preference for exact city placement.

Huh. I had looked the palace up in the civilopedia, and it said it's 100 shields to build. However, Leptis (@1spt) can build it in 300 turns, so I guess it's really 300 shields, perfect for GL prebuild. What's going on here...is there a bug in the civilopedia? Or does the palace cost go up with map size, or something?

100 Shields ?? It is actually 1000 shields, BUT the cost is actually dependent upon the size of your civ (i.e. # of cities) i believe Theoden wrote and article about the cost of the palace and it has some insight about it, but basically there is like a minimum number of shields required to build the palace, not sure what that is, and then as you expand & the # of cities increases the cost of the palace keeps increasing until the maximum cost (1000 shields) is reached.

Diplo or Space win huh, you don't see us taking over the world then??

 

[Mach]

100 Shields ?? It is actually 1000 shields

Well, that's what my 'pedia says... I guess it's wrong, so nevermind...

Diplo or Space win huh, you don't see us taking over the world then??

Well, I figured with a big map, and all the islands, a military win would take a while. But if that's what the team wants, I'm not against it.

 

[Elmarae]

I'm not a real fan of island maps, just serves me right that the 2 C3C games I play seem to be island maps

No problem on the changes compared to my dot map. I was forseeing that our island was going to be relatively corruption free. so gave cites room to expand while also using as much of the land as possible and soon as possible. Once we get to lands that are 90% or more corrupt I ICS as much as possible. Lots of little towns with irrigation where possible, producing workers/settlers with scientists/taxmen.

I agree we should go the Lighthouse. Galleys will be more effective for finding land, unless we are lucky with a Christopher Curragh.

I'm easy on any type of win. My prefered method is Conquest/Domination. I'm doing the SGOTM 100K. So Diplo or SS would be a change of tactics for me... But I will go with what the team wants. Count my vote as "ANY".

 

[gunnerxtr]

hmm as far as victory diplo or space sounds fun, military seems pretty tough given our start.

Lighthouse sounds like a good idea.. i dont know if we NEED it considering we are already seafaring, suicide galleys (4 movement points could do the trick) but the lighthouse would definately help. I say we go for it and hope to cascade to something else if we miss out on it (like TGL )

 

[predesad]

I was actually being somewhat sarcatic about the conquest / domination thing, I think it would be a difficult challenge on this size world with our civ, if we were the Byz or the Vikings (as far as seafaring civs) it would be more feasible but our UU is not going to help us. I don't think we can go completely peaceful and win with our land, we need some help from Spain because our industrious workers can convert that land into good tiles and while I would not want to move the palace over there, we could always go ICS and get huge commerce benefits from it. Also, whoever ends up as the monster civ in this game needs to be taken out, hopefully via a world war, to help us keep up in the tech race because I foresee that being a problem for us. I think the diplo victory is lame (not that i haven't used it before) and I am thinking SS. Culture would not be good for us because our island is small unless we go for the one city victory in which case we would really need to get on the ball since we have screwed it up from the start IF we were going in that direction.

I am leaning heavily towards the Lighthouse now, the extra movement point is not so much of a help as being safe at sea tiles, that will be huge for suicide galleys & w/ the +2 movement over normal galleys it very well might make some would be suicide runs completely safe voyages by being able to hit other sea tiles. This might even make some early warmongering possible, but it's too early to plan anything like that. We need to try to stir up wars among the AI at some point to slow down there advancement.

 

[Mach]

Pretty good turns.

Preflight -- MM Utica, Leptis for gold
(I) Utica worker --> settler
T1 (1700BC) -- nothing
(I) Carthage curragh --> settler
T2 (1675BC) -- nothing...
T3 (1650BC) -- curragh suicide run...nothing...
(I) Leptis worker --> palace, due in 300, haha. Curragh survives.
T4 (1625BC) -- MM Utica for gold...suicide curragh, nothing...
(I) Theveste warrior --> warrior (Leptis is gonna need mps...)
T5 (1600BC) -- curragh suicide run...still nothing...
MM Utica for gold
T6 (1575BC) -- Northern suicide spots land! Other curragh goes suicide, too...
(I) Both curraghs survive!
T7 (1550BC) -- MM Leptis for shields
Northern suicide hits land! Change his name to Columbus. Southern finds nothing...
(I) Carthage settler --> warrior
T8 (1525BC) -- Southern suicide curragh spots land!
Settler heads off toward cows
(I) Southern curragh survives... Put on some Van Halen.
T9 (1500BC) -- Southern curragh hits land, sees green borders.
Northern curragh sees black borders.
T10 (1475BC) -- Hippo founded.
Meet the Celts, they are up Wheel & IW.
Meet the Zulu, they are up Wheel, IW, & Myst

Now, some trades...
Get IW from the 'Quois for CB & 42g
Get wheel from Spain for IW & 85g

Zulu are up Myst & HBR.
We are even with the Celts, Spanish, & 'Quois.
Edit: Sorry, my bad, we're up Wheel on the Iroquois.

We have 2 irons & 1 horsie on our island.
We get writing in 7 turns.
Settler ready to found cow town on the spot, and there are two workers bringing irrigation over there (one to road, one to irrigate).
I decided against a granary in Theveste. Pred is right, we have to watch our maintenance costs, and also cow town will better use a granary.
And oh yeah, I am the luckiest man in the universe! We may have two curraghs on either side of the pangea...

For the next player...
Watch the MMs. Utica especially.
I have three towns on warrior, as we will have need of mps. These builds can be rethought.
I forgot to change the name of the southern curragh...so do that, she deserves it.
And sorry for leaving you with such small towns...

The Save

Our home...

 

[gunnerxtr]

great turns!!

hooray we found other civs, lets hope that isnt just one big pangaea though....

 

[gunnerxtr]

sooo, this brings up a good question, do we need the lighthouse anymore? or would the shields be better used on something else?

 

[predesad]

my thoughts are that the curraghs need to explore in opposite directions, actually i guess i mean the same direction, kind of hard for me to explain what I mean, but they need to explore in directions so that assuming they are at the same landmass (the "pangea" we are supposed to have) they will not meet and therefore maximize opportunity for contacts. that's prolly some long voyages, but we dont have to worry about barb galleys.

gunner brings up a very good point, I do not think we need the lighthouse anymore, Mach, can you say how many shields are invested in it, or someone who has looked at the save? what do you guys think, should we ditch the lighthouse and what shold we then decide to aim for, is there another feasible build assuming there are not too many shields invested or are we headed for another wonder. i do not really want to build the other GL because even though it is a powerful wonder which would easily allow us to keep up through education, it could also be a crutch that will suddenly vanish at education. if not too many shields invested I would rather switch to a warrior and abandon the entire wonder project.

cow city should be looked at for possibility of worker factory depending upon the corruption

 

[Mach]

Currently, both curraghs are moving counterclockwise, assuming it's a pangea. So I already followed your advice.

I agree, ditch the lighthouse. Only 9 shields invested atm, we could switch to anything -- warrior is fine. Maybe we want to think about Hanging Gardens later on? One happy person per city for an entire age would be pretty nice when we don't have any native luxs. Too early to prebuild for that, though...

 

[gunnerxtr]

yeah the only argument left for getting the GL would be transporting units to attack the spanish, but they are so close that there is really no reason for it.

who is up, DBear?

 

[DBear]

Got the save. Will play tonight.

 

[predesad]

who is up, DBear?

sorry, forgot about the order update:

mach - just played
dbear - up
predesad - on deck
elmarae -
gunner -

 

[predesad]

so far we have ditch the lighthouse and build order can be changed to a warrior with no losses or whatever else looks good, explore in counterclockwise direction around "pangea". research suggestion i believe has been philosophy for free tech, with hesitation to trade writing before we get philosophy, especially since the Zulu being expansionist would have a very good chance of popping it.

I would sell the Wheel to the Iroquois for their 42 gold, simply because we can, they wont have any contacts besides us and Spain for a long time and we could use the gold. I would also consider a possible deficit research run at philosophy to help our chances of getting it first.

those are just my suggestions.

i would also like to say i have not had a chance to play a turn yet and i think the team has done a good job of taking a somewhat poor situation (our start) and making the most of it

 

[gunnerxtr]

especially since the Zulu being expansionist would have a very good chance of popping it.

is it No Barbarians or Sedentary, because with no barbs there are no goodie huts

 

[predesad]

is it No Barbarians or Sedentary, because with no barbs there are no goodie huts

oops, very good point, it is no barbs, so no goody huts, suddenly a little safer to trade writing but i would still wait until we are a few turns in on phil, but that is dbear's discretion

 

[gunnerxtr]

hmm i was thinking about what you said and i think it could (i repeat could) be safe to trade because:

1) The AI will not switch what it is researching to research philosophy
2) The AI will not deficit research, which means they probably couldnt get there as fast as us on max.

HOWEVER, with that being said, i still feel we should hold on to writing for as long as we can. lol.

 

[predesad]

hmm i was thinking about what you said and i think it could (i repeat could) be safe to trade because:

2) The AI will not deficit research, which means they probably couldnt get there as fast as us on max.

an AI who has a river, who is researching at a reduced cost of 80% could beat us on max even though they wont deficit research.

even though they wont switch research, we don't know who is researching what and when it will be discovered to give them the chance to switch to philosophy. with the no barbs / goody huts i think it is safe to trade writing as long as we wait until we have a good head start on phil.

what are we taking with our free tech, assuming we get it?

 

[Mach]

I would sell the Wheel to the Iroquois for their 42 gold

I agree. Shoulda done this myself.

i still feel we should hold on to writing for as long as we can

Agreed. I say hang on to writing until we have ~4 turns left on philo at most. Remember, there's no tech we really need right now -- the sole purpose of our philo run is to keep us up in tech, and hopefully speed us out of despotism. So I don't mind falling behind for awhile.

what are we taking with our free tech, assuming we get it?

If there is anything to get, we should trade philo around on the IT. (That is, when the "you have discovered philo" popup comes up, click the button to bring us to the science screen, switch to the diplo screen, and trade it.) Then...go back to the sci screen and simply select the most expensive thing available. Dare I hope it's...monarchy? After that, if we don't have monarchy, we should research towards that. My two cents.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I like trying for the hanging gardens. IIRC it gives us +1 happiness in each city until steam power...at which point, we'll be able to trade with the mainland, netting some luxes.

 

[DBear]

1) 1450: Carthage warrior-->settler. Leptis Magna warrior-->worker. Leptis Minor founded by cows. Wake Fluffy up and send him over there. Send Rex over to Hippo. Switch Hippo to temple. We need that iron inside our border. Curraghs continue exploring.

2) 1425: North curragh contacts a Roman settler. They have nothing to offer.

3) 1400: Zulu start Oracle. Rome starts Pyramids. Buy Mystic off the Zulu for 195. Leptis Minor roaded, roading horses.

4) 1375: Iroquois demand Mystic, refuse, they declare. Stupid gits can't even get to us. Zulus picked up writing and math. Crap, I was hoping to get that money back. Utica warrior-->settler. Horses roaded. Leptis Minor and Hippo switch to chariot.

5) 1350: Theveste worker-->worker.

6) 1325: Rome will trade us Horseback for 60 + 11/turn. Much too high. Leptis Magna worker-->grain.

7) 1300: Writing comes in, start mapping. Spain riots, turn up lux. Turn up science to 70, we can get mapping in 35. Sell mystic to Spain for 85.

8) 1275: Carthage settler-->trading.

9) 1250: Not much happens.

10) 1225: Theveste worker-->chariot. Hippo chariot-->grain. Feel free to change these. southern curragh spots an orange border--England?


Successor: Utica has a settler due next turn. He should either go 3sw for the iron or 2n, 1nw of Leptis Minor for the cow and whale. Settler 3ne of Hippo should settle where he is to get the iron.