PerfectWorld6 7

[cephalo]

Thanks pokiehl. I will begin work tomorrow. I am going to try to keep this backward compatible. Last time I only added reefs if they were defined. This time I might be able to test on volcanoes.

 

[cephalo]

Backward compatibility is going to be tough. I need a scheme to identify rivers.

 

[Seven05]

Backward compatibility is going to be tough. I need a scheme to identify rivers.

How so? or maybe the right question is why? I'm pretty sure the only thing they changed with rivers is floodplain placement so you shouldn't have to change anything with your river code. My changes aren't as customized as your's is but I didn't have to change anything from the R&F version.

 

[cephalo]

How so? or maybe the right question is why? I'm pretty sure the only thing they changed with rivers is floodplain placement so you shouldn't have to change anything with your river code. My changes aren't as customized as your's is but I didn't have to change anything from the R&F version.

The new river setting functions take an extra parameter now, called 'riverID'. It's just an int, and I imagine it's used to come up with a name for the river. Looks like each river source gets a new number, which propagates until it hits another river or water.

If you want to know how my weekend is going, this line says it all:

            local WOfRiver, NWOfRiver, NEOfRiver, WID, NWID, NEID = riverMap:GetFlowDirections(x,y)

I haven't tested it yet, if it doesn't work, I'll try again while drunk.

 

[Seven05]

Ah, that's all buried in the parts of river generation I don't even mess with.

I haven't tested it yet, if it doesn't work, I'll try again while drunk.

LOL, that should be fun

 

[cephalo]

So this probably won't happen this weekend. The way I generate rivers is very different than the normal game, and it doesn't know where a river starts and ends, it only knows where to push the water from a given spot. Also, this new functionality is very finicky, if you put bad data into the river ID, it crashes the whole game. Another problem I'm having is that the stock maps generate very nice labels for features on the map, while in my map it's just not working right, even if I can ID a river properly.

Another unfortunate thing is that lakes no longer make nice outflows into rivers all the time like they used to. So rivers flowing into lakes flowing in to rivers again no longer has that special magic, in fact it looks pretty broken most of the time. I think I'll keep them, since it was really hard to make that happen.

I need to make a new data structure to organize individual rivers. This could have a side benefit of allowing my to just dump rivers less than a certain length.

 

[VladimirYutin]

This mod is awesome!But is GS comp?

 

[cephalo]

This mod is awesome!But is GS comp?

No. Not for a while.

 

[doublex55]

Looking at the screenshots there seems to be a lot more rivers than in the base game. I know from my Civ 5 days that too many rivers was extremely annoying to move around as well as a balance issue for some civs and wonders/buildings. Will there be a way to set river amount to be the same as base game? And perhaps other balance related features such as hills and mountains.) Everything else about your map looks amazing!

 

[PonderThis]

cephalo, I just wanted to drop by and offer encouragement and appreciation for all the work you've done on this map. I love the maps this generates and always have. So much of this game is terrain specific and PW really makes things interesting.

 

[pokiehl]

Looking at the screenshots there seems to be a lot more rivers than in the base game. I know from my Civ 5 days that too many rivers was extremely annoying to move around as well as a balance issue for some civs and wonders/buildings. Will there be a way to set river amount to be the same as base game? And perhaps other balance related features such as hills and mountains.) Everything else about your map looks amazing!

River generation has been discussed at length in this thread. To summarize, it is based on the model used in the map script and drainage, so there is no user setting. He is redoing the rivers because of the changes GS made to river generation and that may or may not have an effect on how the map generates rivers from here on out, but he said there may be a possibility to reduce the shorter rivers.

It is also well-noted that in the beginning of the map script there are plenty of easily changeable constants for the user to alter, including percentage of hills, mountains, and all features.

 

[cephalo]

Things are going pretty good. My major civ start finder started rough but it works much better now. I have a lot of stuff I'd like to explore before release. I would like to greatly improve natural wonder placement, so you don't have Yosemite or Torres del Paine on a wide grassland plain or in the desert. Also I'd like to do something with minor civs, because of distance rules, they do like to congregate en masse in the new world. It makes sense to have some there, but there should be plenty of pristine land for exploration also. I really just don't like minor civs to tell you the truth. They always seem to be in the way.

I have a gameplay question, do volcano natural wonders like Crater Lake or Kilimanjaro erupt?

 

[Akilla]

Not sure about Crater Lake, but Kilimanjaro can erupt. And Mt. Vesuvius obviously too! =)

Just taking the chance to say that I really love your mapscripts ever since you started them for the civ franchise. Like so many others I am sure, I wish you all the best for this much awaited update!

 

[pokiehl]

Things are going pretty good. My major civ start finder started rough but it works much better now. I have a lot of stuff I'd like to explore before release. I would like to greatly improve natural wonder placement, so you don't have Yosemite or Torres del Paine on a wide grassland plain or in the desert. Also I'd like to do something with minor civs, because of distance rules, they do like to congregate en masse in the new world. It makes sense to have some there, but there should be plenty of pristine land for exploration also. I really just don't like minor civs to tell you the truth. They always seem to be in the way.

I have a gameplay question, do volcano natural wonders like Crater Lake or Kilimanjaro erupt?

There are 3 erupting volcano Natural Wonders: Eyjafjallajökull, Kilimanjaro, and Vesuvius. There's a very popular mod called Terra Mirabilis that adds a lot of natural wonders and affects natural wonder gameplay; it adds Krakatoa and is currently being updated for Krakatoa to being a volcano as well.

If you could improve the minor civ placement that would be awesome. I don't play with the Old World start option, so my preference for a regular start is that city-states would be as evenly distributed throughout the map as possible. The way they clump together is awful for gameplay balance considering all the bonuses they give and that some civ/leader unique abilities depend on city-states.

As for Natural Wonder placement, I personally don't really see many faults with it. There's nothing like Civ 5 Krakatoa in which the wonders spawn in useless locations, and their placement rules are handled via the database tables, specifying valid terrains, valid adjacent terrain, valid ajdacent features, etc. That said I'm obviously curious and interested in what you come up with, but your potential fix to major and minor civ placement is what's really piquing my interest

 

[cephalo]

I'll try to mess with wonders I know about, and place any modded ones with the usual methods. I am seeing some locations that I think could be much better. Sometimes it's fine to just place a desert wonder in desert etc. but other ones have a wider context that isn't being respected. Yosemite needs to be part of a mountain range for example.

I'm still working on the river system, and I'm worried that the river naming system puts a limit on the number of rivers you can have. I have seen that if you put really high numbers in a rivers id field, it crashed the game. My new method tries to conserve those slots, hopefully it will work. It will really take the wind out of my sails if I have to abandon elevation based watersheds.

 

[pokiehl]

Sorry about the difficulty with rivers. I hope you can figure a workaround. Maybe there is a way to limit the naming to rivers of a certain size.

Also about Yosemite - yes a mountain range makes realistic sense but sticking Yosemite around mountains actually hurts it gameplay wise. It gives a benefit to adjacent tiles, and has no yield itself - surrounded by mountains it becomes much less useful.

 

[cephalo]

I'm having extreme difficulty here with crashing. It's not the rivers. I have to keep pairing things back to see what's going on. Is there a way to see the crash reports of a game crash?

 

[Seven05]

documents/my games/civilization 6/logs has quite a few logs in it if you have them enabled. I've never tried to find anything beyond map generation faults which are always in the lua.log so I don't know how useful the others are.

 

[Logicsol]

Could the River ID issue be cause by the limited name pool the game has? IE it's crashing because it tries to double assign the same name to 2 locations?

It might be worth doing a run with Map Mundi and see if you still run into the problem, if you can't find the cause in the logs.

 

[cephalo]

Blegh! I finally found the cause of the crash. I did that allll day. My back is killing me and I wanna puke!

So, there's a function called ApplyTerrain, where you combine plot types with terrain types that basically turns flat terrain into mountains and hills. I was doing a lot complicated stuff and I decided to do it twice just for good measure, but if you add the mountain delta to a mountain, you basically go into undefined territory. I was getting these funky lakes that I didn't add, that I believe were also messing up the river system graphics that I complained about earlier.

bedtime.

EDIT: This was also confusing my thinking about the river system a great deal, so I don't know if there are any consequences of having too many rivers etc. I will work on that tomorrow.