I'm starting to feel stupid posting after just 30 more turns, but I felt the dotmapping and SE/FE discussion wasn't over yet. Just wanted to settle Sparta so there's something set in stone, and also scout a bit more of the map.
Turn 75 / BC 2125
Everything as planned:
- Wheel and Masonry researched, Agriculture halfway researched
- Stone quarried and connected
- Athens started Pyramids, has warrior garrison
- Forested hill currently being directly mined east of Athens, plan is to then mine the forested plains hill and then chop another forested grass hill.
- Sparta founded, started building a warrior (for garrison)
- Warrior standing on the wine hill SE of Sparta, waiting for the settler - city spot needs to be decided (foody, pink, or other?)
Two lucky events: Black Pearls (+1 commerce to one clam tile in Athens) and Prairie Dogs (+1 commerce to one plains tile in Sparta) during this round. These tile value events seem to be very common - I think I've had Black Pearls almost every game. While Athens isn't meant to be commerce city, I'm not spitting on extra coin. The clam will be worked throughout the whole game, so that coin hit a very good tile. OTOH the plains tile Prairie Dogs were found from is not riverside and isn't exactly on top of the cottage list, so much less useful. Eventually, but not yet.
The other noteworthy happenings were meetings of Justinian and Huayna Capac, former of the two being Buddhist founder.
First, a quick peek at the continent (map rotated so South is towards right here):
Justinian is just north of us beyond the jungle belt, HC a bit more north but on eastern coast - pretty much directly north of Sitting Bull. I think we have all the jumbos and dyes here on this continent
Then the southern part of the continent - the area relevant for dotmapping:
Hmm... Should I rather have split that to two screenies so the tiles would be larger, making dotmapping easier?
I kept southern shore dots as is, kept Foody, marked alternative black as jumbopigs (grabs ivory and pig), moved white one SE, added one dot a bit north of jumbopigs on western coast (clams + ivory).
Sitting Bull has founded Poverty Point one east of the blue dot as expected.
Now let's start with new alternative white:
North of Sparta, on the riverside. Grabs three dyes, corn (not irrigated), peak, plains, 14 flat grasses, sits on grassland hill. As jungle usually is, this would make good cottage city. But it does have river and one food special, so it can also be farmed. Or watermilled. Dyes are commerce resources, so there will be some amount of commerce in any case. Clearing all that jungle will take horrendous amount of worker turns, but nothing we can do about it.
Then northern west coast city: clam, two grassland phants, one grass hill, 8 flat grasses, four coasts, three oceans, peak. Irrigation chaining possible later on from north (lake) or east (river). Doesn't really look that strong a city. The purpose would probably be just to found a city towards Justinian and to establish near-monopoly on ivory (Sitting Bull has one). And it's the way to nab the clam - and where there's SOME food there must be a city
Again, I measured cities in cottages. But that's because they didn't have more than one food special each, and only one had fresh water in BFC to allow for farming. Any other takes on the spots, or finding better spots for specifically SE purposes with capability to continue past Emancipation, whether using SE still or by transforming to CE?
And the list:
Strategy
No changes for now.
Early game:
- Peaceful expansion - block Sitting Bull with two cities (Sparta founded, second settler available) and then maybe expand Northwards into the jungles to block Justinian?
- Pyramids - build started, 30-40 turns maybe (Athens has just been whipped, so it's at 2 pop again and has to grow while building Pyramids)
- First war possibly with Construction - cats and phants? Target either Sitting Bull or Justinian. I think Justinian would be good to take out before Guilds, while Sitting Bull gets to slowly stagnate in tech and can easily (?) be removed later on? OTOH, Sitting Bull is in a way nearer to us - we'd get cleaner and better defined territory by grabbing his land.
Midgame:
Depending on the situation we find ourselves in, either:
A) Continue the warring to gain control of the continent, consider military options
B) Consolidate, explore to find other civs, make friends, consider diplomatic options
C) Consolidate, start working for space race, priorize economic transition post-Liberalism?
And late game will then be defined by decisions above.
Diplomacy
Who're our friends, who're our enemies?
As the plan calls for attack against Justinian and/or Sitting Bull (I'd expect eventually 'and' but maybe that'll be late middle ages / reneissance war), seems we should befriend HC. He probably will found his own religion, be that Judaism (not yet founded), Confu, Tao, or Christianity. How well Justinian spreads Buddhism before that will affect the relations a lot.
Justinian should be easy to deal with. But Sitting Bull will probably be demanding something almost all the time - very annoying. If we want to be on his good side, maybe just give him the techs and whatnot? But if it's choice between HC and SB, just send him packing and rather trade / gift HC as needed?
Assuming HC founds his own religion, he won't be friends with Justinian, and if Justinian spreads Buddhism well, SB will be on Justinians side thus against HC. This could become north + south against center, that is, me and HC against SB and Justinian.
Of course there're other continents to consider as well. I need to get fishing boat out to explore ASAP...
Techpath
- Agriculture -> Pottery -> Writing
This gives us granaries and libraries, allows us to build cottages to Sparta.
But after that?
- Sailing: maybe half our cities will be coastal, but of the first three only one (Athens). Certainly Lightouse in Athens would be nice, but it's not necessary for now. Maybe later?
- Iron Working: we don't see any metals yet, and we expect to expand north into the jungle after Pyramids. Quite important it seems.
- Mathematics: One step from Construction, albeit Warphants apparently require HBR too these days so we would need to get that while building cats. And I think we need Currency and/or CoL before we can expand really. Math leads to Currency too, so this looks fine.
- Alphabet: Tech trading. We could then trade Alpha for IW and Math, maybe? Also leads to Currency and thus CoL too.
- Currency, CoL - Allow us to expand past early game limits
- Construction, Horseback Riding - Allow for Cats and War Elephants, leading to war
What would the research path be? I'm leaning a bit on Alpha -> trade for Math + IW -> Currency (trade for Construction as soon as possible) -> CoL to enable economy while trading the other side of the coin. Alpha is more expensive than Math or IW and thus can be traded for either, and again Currency is a bit more expensive than Construction with AI favouring research of Construction over Currency. Oh yes - Construction will bring us Odeons - more happiness. Should we prioritize this instead of Currency for the reason?
Cities
Athens
Pyramids will keep Athens busy for a while. We'll be way past Writing before the mids are up, but when that happens we also gain three happiness by switch to representation, allowing us to grow even more... What will Athens do then? Library, then settlers to continue expansion but run two scientists all the time? Aqueduct and Hanging Gardens when available?
Sparta
1) Warrior (being built)
2) Worker (2pop whip ASAP)
3) Barracks
4) Chariots (total force probably 4-6 to fogbust and handle barbs)
- Whip Granary at suitable moment
As Sparta will get cottages, and we expect to keep slider geared to gold instead of beakers, Sparta shouldn't need library? Just slowly build units (and workers as needed), then Market, Courthouse, and Palace? Run Merchants if excess food while working cottages?
Corinth
Not yet founded. Pink or foody - or other spot suited for blocking the peninsula from Sitting Bull.
1) Barracks
2) Chariots (see Sparta above)
3) Library - and start running scientists while slowly building units and workers as needed?
- Whip Granary at suitable moment
- Courthouse when available
Save
Turn 75 / BC 2125
Everything as planned:
- Wheel and Masonry researched, Agriculture halfway researched
- Stone quarried and connected
- Athens started Pyramids, has warrior garrison
- Forested hill currently being directly mined east of Athens, plan is to then mine the forested plains hill and then chop another forested grass hill.
- Sparta founded, started building a warrior (for garrison)
- Warrior standing on the wine hill SE of Sparta, waiting for the settler - city spot needs to be decided (foody, pink, or other?)
Two lucky events: Black Pearls (+1 commerce to one clam tile in Athens) and Prairie Dogs (+1 commerce to one plains tile in Sparta) during this round. These tile value events seem to be very common - I think I've had Black Pearls almost every game. While Athens isn't meant to be commerce city, I'm not spitting on extra coin. The clam will be worked throughout the whole game, so that coin hit a very good tile. OTOH the plains tile Prairie Dogs were found from is not riverside and isn't exactly on top of the cottage list, so much less useful. Eventually, but not yet.
The other noteworthy happenings were meetings of Justinian and Huayna Capac, former of the two being Buddhist founder.
First, a quick peek at the continent (map rotated so South is towards right here):
Justinian is just north of us beyond the jungle belt, HC a bit more north but on eastern coast - pretty much directly north of Sitting Bull. I think we have all the jumbos and dyes here on this continent
Then the southern part of the continent - the area relevant for dotmapping:
Hmm... Should I rather have split that to two screenies so the tiles would be larger, making dotmapping easier?
I kept southern shore dots as is, kept Foody, marked alternative black as jumbopigs (grabs ivory and pig), moved white one SE, added one dot a bit north of jumbopigs on western coast (clams + ivory).
Sitting Bull has founded Poverty Point one east of the blue dot as expected.
Now let's start with new alternative white:
North of Sparta, on the riverside. Grabs three dyes, corn (not irrigated), peak, plains, 14 flat grasses, sits on grassland hill. As jungle usually is, this would make good cottage city. But it does have river and one food special, so it can also be farmed. Or watermilled. Dyes are commerce resources, so there will be some amount of commerce in any case. Clearing all that jungle will take horrendous amount of worker turns, but nothing we can do about it.
Then northern west coast city: clam, two grassland phants, one grass hill, 8 flat grasses, four coasts, three oceans, peak. Irrigation chaining possible later on from north (lake) or east (river). Doesn't really look that strong a city. The purpose would probably be just to found a city towards Justinian and to establish near-monopoly on ivory (Sitting Bull has one). And it's the way to nab the clam - and where there's SOME food there must be a city
Again, I measured cities in cottages. But that's because they didn't have more than one food special each, and only one had fresh water in BFC to allow for farming. Any other takes on the spots, or finding better spots for specifically SE purposes with capability to continue past Emancipation, whether using SE still or by transforming to CE?
And the list:
Strategy
No changes for now.
Early game:
- Peaceful expansion - block Sitting Bull with two cities (Sparta founded, second settler available) and then maybe expand Northwards into the jungles to block Justinian?
- Pyramids - build started, 30-40 turns maybe (Athens has just been whipped, so it's at 2 pop again and has to grow while building Pyramids)
- First war possibly with Construction - cats and phants? Target either Sitting Bull or Justinian. I think Justinian would be good to take out before Guilds, while Sitting Bull gets to slowly stagnate in tech and can easily (?) be removed later on? OTOH, Sitting Bull is in a way nearer to us - we'd get cleaner and better defined territory by grabbing his land.
Midgame:
Depending on the situation we find ourselves in, either:
A) Continue the warring to gain control of the continent, consider military options
B) Consolidate, explore to find other civs, make friends, consider diplomatic options
C) Consolidate, start working for space race, priorize economic transition post-Liberalism?
And late game will then be defined by decisions above.
Diplomacy
Who're our friends, who're our enemies?
As the plan calls for attack against Justinian and/or Sitting Bull (I'd expect eventually 'and' but maybe that'll be late middle ages / reneissance war), seems we should befriend HC. He probably will found his own religion, be that Judaism (not yet founded), Confu, Tao, or Christianity. How well Justinian spreads Buddhism before that will affect the relations a lot.
Justinian should be easy to deal with. But Sitting Bull will probably be demanding something almost all the time - very annoying. If we want to be on his good side, maybe just give him the techs and whatnot? But if it's choice between HC and SB, just send him packing and rather trade / gift HC as needed?
Assuming HC founds his own religion, he won't be friends with Justinian, and if Justinian spreads Buddhism well, SB will be on Justinians side thus against HC. This could become north + south against center, that is, me and HC against SB and Justinian.
Of course there're other continents to consider as well. I need to get fishing boat out to explore ASAP...
Techpath
- Agriculture -> Pottery -> Writing
This gives us granaries and libraries, allows us to build cottages to Sparta.
But after that?
- Sailing: maybe half our cities will be coastal, but of the first three only one (Athens). Certainly Lightouse in Athens would be nice, but it's not necessary for now. Maybe later?
- Iron Working: we don't see any metals yet, and we expect to expand north into the jungle after Pyramids. Quite important it seems.
- Mathematics: One step from Construction, albeit Warphants apparently require HBR too these days so we would need to get that while building cats. And I think we need Currency and/or CoL before we can expand really. Math leads to Currency too, so this looks fine.
- Alphabet: Tech trading. We could then trade Alpha for IW and Math, maybe? Also leads to Currency and thus CoL too.
- Currency, CoL - Allow us to expand past early game limits
- Construction, Horseback Riding - Allow for Cats and War Elephants, leading to war
What would the research path be? I'm leaning a bit on Alpha -> trade for Math + IW -> Currency (trade for Construction as soon as possible) -> CoL to enable economy while trading the other side of the coin. Alpha is more expensive than Math or IW and thus can be traded for either, and again Currency is a bit more expensive than Construction with AI favouring research of Construction over Currency. Oh yes - Construction will bring us Odeons - more happiness. Should we prioritize this instead of Currency for the reason?
Cities
Athens
Pyramids will keep Athens busy for a while. We'll be way past Writing before the mids are up, but when that happens we also gain three happiness by switch to representation, allowing us to grow even more... What will Athens do then? Library, then settlers to continue expansion but run two scientists all the time? Aqueduct and Hanging Gardens when available?
Sparta
1) Warrior (being built)
2) Worker (2pop whip ASAP)
3) Barracks
4) Chariots (total force probably 4-6 to fogbust and handle barbs)
- Whip Granary at suitable moment
As Sparta will get cottages, and we expect to keep slider geared to gold instead of beakers, Sparta shouldn't need library? Just slowly build units (and workers as needed), then Market, Courthouse, and Palace? Run Merchants if excess food while working cottages?
Corinth
Not yet founded. Pink or foody - or other spot suited for blocking the peninsula from Sitting Bull.
1) Barracks
2) Chariots (see Sparta above)
3) Library - and start running scientists while slowly building units and workers as needed?
- Whip Granary at suitable moment
- Courthouse when available
Save
