Permanent Alliance Guide

[aelf]

I just tried an OCC game (my 1st) on Emperor normal speed and got a PA with Washington in the 19th century. I only decided on Washington during the late mid-game. Seems easy enough to get a PA. But Elizabeth and Mansa signed their own PA and later declared war on me. Neither Washington and I had oil (!), but we managed to hold on until I could sue for peace. Washington stopped spaceship production during the war, though, so a few turns later we got beaten at the space race despite my having the Space Elevator.

I guess my mistake was in assuming the AI couldn't or didn't know how to form their own PA. You could add a little section on how to prevent/overcome rival PAs. Maybe playing my first OCC game on Emperor was too much of a challenge in the first place

 

[Mewtarthio]

Have you found that some AI personalities agree more to PAs than others? In one game I had +14 relations with Mao Zedong, with no -ve marks and he refused a PA all game saying "We just don't like you enough". Catherine however was +12 with me and was willing to form a PA.

I think that Napoleon, Alexander, and Tokugawa will never sign permalliances. Beyond that, the "We don't like you enough" red text is based off diplomatic relationship "tiers," so getting it to "Friendly" should get rid of that.

 

[bennos76]

I think that Napoleon, Alexander, and Tokugawa will never sign permalliances. Beyond that, the "We don't like you enough" red text is based off diplomatic relationship "tiers," so getting it to "Friendly" should get rid of that.

Actually, I have a PA with Tokugawa in my current game and have done so in the past as well. He makes an excellent ally, very pro-active in my experience (once you have the PA that is) but you need to get on his good side from early on. It takes a lot of effort to get him over that isolationist ideology.

 

[PJyang]

I had several games with PA on when playing OCC. I have experienced one problem when I am aiming for spaceship win: when finished researching some tech that enables some part of the ship, AI always let some of its crappy city build it before I get any chance. So my production-monster capital had to build something else, let's say, research....

Is there anyway to solve this problem?

 

[mystyfly]

I had several games with PA on when playing OCC. I have experienced one problem when I am aiming for spaceship win: when finished researching some tech that enables some part of the ship, AI always let some of its crappy city build it before I get any chance. So my production-monster capital had to build something else, let's say, research....

Is there anyway to solve this problem?

AFAIK you can tell your PA partner to research another tech so the tech finishes on your turn and you are guaranteed to build that part. You can load your queue so the AI has no chance to build either of those parts

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If anyone's interested in trying out a game with permanent alliances, you might want to look at WOTM 20, which uses teams. Pre-game discussion here.

 

[Airey]

Good stuff, thanks for sharing.

 

[pigswill]

One of the tricks I've been told about is selecting a potential partner who has one of the religious civics (Organised Religion or Theocracy) as their favourite civic. They're less likely to switch to Free Religion which means you can keep accumulating diplo points for 'brothers of the faith' and you have chosen your civics wisely'.

 

[oyzar]

I assume this in the wrong forum. It is always 40 turns of shared war or defensive pact. Look at sgotm 7 for loads of examples of this... Once you sign the PA you seem to get an insane boost in research. Do you happen to know the reason for this?

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Once you sign the PA you seem to get an insane boost in research. Do you happen to know the reason for this?

Isn't this because you're getting the AI tech bonus? Btw this is only a guess on my part.

 

[kingnorxis]

I'm not to sure why you would gift a GP, seems like a waste to me. Better off giving them techs considering you will be sharing them all once the alliance is formed. However, from my experience, the only way you are getting a permanent alliance is mutual warring in the past - religion usually isn't a factor since I'm running free religion by this stage in the game. Share a war for long enough with a previously friendly civ and they will become your ally, or from what I've heard, form a defensive pact.

 

[Theklion]

I play in MP: Do both civs need to have the techs communism or fascism?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I play in MP: Do both civs need to have the techs communism or fascism?

Only 1 of them.

 

[m00n]

How many turns of shared war do I need on Epic (and for the compleness sakes on each speeds) to get a Permanent Alliance going? I'm playing a game right now in which I've waged war against various people together with Monty. I've had Mutual Military struggel capped at +5 for ages now. And he's friendly (+17). He's about twice as big as me and three times as powerfull and his answer to my PA idea is that he is "doing fine on his own".

Or is there a limit to how much stronger an AI for a PA can be? I also have a Vassal that he is pleased with (+5) Do Vassals interfere with the relations in this case?

 

[WastinTime]

It's 40 turns of defensive pact or shared war. That is on any speed (which I consider a bug.)
Sounds like you easily have that, and Monty is not complaining about that factor.

Vassals didn't even exist when I first wrote this strategy guide, so I don't know the answer to that.

It sounds like Monty is too powerful (see OP)

 

[m00n]

Oh man it must have been too late yesterday. I didn't see that. Thanks

 

[m00n]

Something's broken with this mechanic. At least I can say it does not work exactly like this opening post suggests. Take a look at these screenshots if you will. I've had my 40 turns of shared war with all AIs, As long as I am marginaly stronger than Charls he says "You've grown too powerfull for us" When I delete 3 of my 200 Units) He says "He's doing fine on his own" It was the same thing 15 turns ago when Charls was No1 and I tired to get a PA going with Sury. You've grown too powerful for us. at 1.0 their power. Meanwhile Alexander with about 10% my strenght wants to PA me. This game is sprouting total nonsense when it come to PAs.

 

[kossin]

Save?

Could be something Domination-related or war related.

 

[m00n]

I would indeed win domination if one of these PA would have worked. That was my plan all along when I activated PAs in the first place because this is the HoF challenge 6 game 2 where there's no vassals and I didn't want to have to do it all on my own. Now I have to play another map like this because I wasted 50+ or so turns to make a PA. I could have won by myself at this point. It looked so easy in TMITs Lets play. Just have a little war together and be on good terms otherwise. But this really turned out to be a thorny rose

PS. I know Charly needs to be at Friendly and he's not right now but I tried that when we where both in Judaism. It didn't change a thing.

 

[kossin]

It seems to be working like peace vassals. An AI will refuse to become a peace vassal if it puts you through the domination limit. Weird, but logical in a Firaxis way of implementing things.