Permanent Alliance Guide

[ScorpionK]

I still don't understand that why AI does like that in vassal state? It is really funny if vassal hate the master, he will come to you asking stop trading with his master, does he even know that is his master we are talking about?

BTW, it appears to me that after you got PA, you got some bonus in research as well, and not about combine you and PA research. I got PA after communism, then I choose Bio for both of us, and it was completed in 1 turn. Next, medicine 3 turn. After that, everything back to normal.

May anyone got some answers for that?

It seems to me that PA is only matter on OCC, cause it really help you to get resources for your corp.

Hi ScorpionK

It's right that I was on hiatus, but atm. I'm learning, that I'm not quite rdy to live completely without games, as that maybe would mean, I'd have to become a polititian? *lol*

I'm flattered by your compliments, find it funny that you experienced excact the same picture in your game, and welcome to these forums, where people actually really help each other, at least sometimes .

Wonder on which difficulty you play on, as I heard, Deity OOC can be quite a challenge .

Seraiel

Oh, so may I wish for a new OCC writeup? And sadly that I am not a Deity player, just Immortal. Absolutely not HOF player cause I can not live without reload, I hate GNR when I lose 2 96% fight. I even got losing 1 fight of 99,9% (when I checked combat log, it said that I got 100%, still lose, ridiculous). And I love reload to try new thing, to see that the world goes complete other way. Deity put too much pressure to me, make me nervous anytime I click end turn

I just try OCC a few times, got my ass kicked by barb the first time though Just got my first win yesterday when I got PA with Khmer guy, even though my first aim is Brennus who denied my PA cause he got like 2 vassal already. I got a soft point for the guy who "can not betray my close friend", but still, Khmer guy is quite good for warmonger like me.

OCC is so fun to see you produce over 1000 beaker, even though by that time, I conquest half of the world already. A warmonger is really powerful no matter what your victory condition.

P.S: I always feel guilty for never said thanks in your writeup, but please understand that I only play civs 1 month ago, I read your writeup by chance about 2 weeks after that. Somehow Civ4 - Strategy & Tips forum only show 2 pages of topic for me?? Is it like that for everyone??

 

[Seraiel]

Hi again!

Before I could start doing a Writeup on a OCC, I'd first have to finish the Writeup I promised to Revent.

No idea if I can develop enough interest again, to really beat the out of the stupid AI. Atm. I'm working on that.

To understand AI btw. , it's imo easiest to know that AI has absolutely 0 knowledge about the reality of situations, but simply acts totally blind, sticking to the scripts, that the programers chose for it, and those imo too often make the fault, of not hiring players, to actually test what stupid things they actually write.

Regards,

Sera

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

A rather fun or frustrating way to utilize a PA is the current HoF Challenge X Game 1 - OCC, Noble, Small Oasis with seven war mongers and a Cultural Victory goal.

The AI's ineptitude is especially striking when he is your permanent ally. One can ask the AI to capture a strategic city, kill all defenders but one and decimate it, but it can take the AI 20+ turns to get its 15+ stack over there to kill a single decimated defender. It may be using it's stack to prevent a revolt whose sole cultural threat is the city the player wants it to capture ASAP.

Unfortunately, the best way to understand how to get one's permanent ally to follow your plan is to understand the AI code rather completely with regard to want conditions must be realized to cause the AI to do the desired thing.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[pob]

BTW, it appears to me that after you got PA, you got some bonus in research as well, and not about combine you and PA research. I got PA after communism, then I choose Bio for both of us, and it was completed in 1 turn. Next, medicine 3 turn. After that, everything back to normal.

May anyone got some answers for that?

I've had that happen and assumed it was a bug; every tech that was available to research immediately after making the PA only took one turn to complete.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I've had that happen and assumed it was a bug; every tech that was available to research immediately after making the PA only took one turn to complete.

My guess is the research your PA partner has applied to the tech he was working on becomes available for what you want to research. Never checked whether this is true though. In any case, it could be considered a minor bug. Not usually as game changing as getting the PA itself.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[aitkensam]

Just played my first game with Permanent Alliances (Imm/Space) and this thread was really useful in figuring out how to get one started. Thanks a lot!

Succeeding in getting an ally but was still a bit confused about how certain aspects of the PA work afterwards... If anyone can enlighten me that would be great.

1. Research costs seem to jump a lot. In my game about 38%. (e.g. Fiber Optics 12187 -> 16818, Fusion 13000 -> 17940). Does this mean having an ally whose research is significantly slower than yours could actually slow you down?

2. The ally seems to get first chance to make most builds. For wonders this is quite nice, but as I was going space I was paranoid he would start an Engine in a city where it would take 30 turns or something. Is there any way to cancel the ally's builds? Or just have to fix the AI's tile improvements? This could still be annoying if the build was in a crappy city...

 

[Seraiel]

1. Yes, a bad partner could slow you down.

2. Not sure, played only 2 games with PAs, both 2 years ago already. Having Vassals is just better than having a PA.

 

[aitkensam]

Thanks Seraiel. Nice to have that confirmed.

I agree vassal mechanic does seem to give much better profit, as free tech trades should speed up research more. Only downsides would be slight diplo hit with other AI, and that vassals don't build late game wonders for you and could try to sneak a culture victory, but those are very minor in comparison to faster research.

Edit : Just thought of another pro for vassals. Presumably you can get more land before reaching Dom limit with vassal rather than PA.

 

[elmurcis]

Just played my first game with Permanent Alliances (Imm/Space) and this thread was really useful in figuring out how to get one started. Thanks a lot!

Succeeding in getting an ally but was still a bit confused about how certain aspects of the PA work afterwards... If anyone can enlighten me that would be great.

1. Research costs seem to jump a lot. In my game about 38%. (e.g. Fiber Optics 12187 -> 16818, Fusion 13000 -> 17940). Does this mean having an ally whose research is significantly slower than yours could actually slow you down?

2. The ally seems to get first chance to make most builds. For wonders this is quite nice, but as I was going space I was paranoid he would start an Engine in a city where it would take 30 turns or something. Is there any way to cancel the ally's builds? Or just have to fix the AI's tile improvements? This could still be annoying if the build was in a crappy city...

There is simple solution for this - ask your partner to change research tech ~ 1 turn before you both finish that tech - if you are the one who finish technology, you get 1st access to any buildings it gives (including world wonders and space ship parts). You don't have to build it right away (you can just put it in some of best cities building list with "Shift+ click on wonder/space ship part"), you can still build something else before it, but its yours for sure... this has saved me many turns for space race )