Persia & Cyrus - your views & strategies

anglosaxon

Monarch
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
89
Hello All,

Recently I have been playing Warlords & Vanilla with Cyrus, which I am finding quite enjoyable, notably because it is a change of scenery playing a land-based empire as opposed to the sea-based empire of Vikings. I tend to play on Lakes maps with high sea level to make things a bit more interesting.

I'd like to know who else plays Cyrus, what you think of his trait combination of Charismatic & Imperialistic and what strategies you pursue. I play Monarch and Emperor level, and tend to win. War does form a strong part of my strategy with Cyrus, but only in combination with something else.
 
For me, Cyrus = early war, no matter what winning condition i'll end up with eventually. The added happy from the charismatic trait will also give you an oppertunity to produce those leathal Immortals even faster, since you can work one more tile. Even if you are unlucky and don't get horses, the trait will give you some important unit experience pretty fast. If you do have horses, those immortals will take out pretty much any civilzation cept the ones with an early UU. If you got copper/iron as well, be sure to bring some axes in case your opponent has some spears, since these will be deadly to your immortals.

I personally see Cyrus as a warmongerer throughout the game as well. Since you are very likely to go to an early war, you gain experience and you'll get generals fast because of the imperialistic trait. If you take good care of your best units and upgrade them when u can, i'd say that:

- The -25 exp needed

and

- the added experience you get from attaching generals to troops, or even better imo, settlng a few instructors in your best military cities

= better than agressive trait.
 
Warlords Cyrus is almost always war, so keep building military and attack;
conquest or raze, but attack.

Best regards,
 
Yes, I almost always go to war early. Especially when I have Gandhi or Montezuma as a neighbour, Gandhi for his holy city and because he is weak, and Montezuma in order to stop him becoming troublesome later on.

The main choice I have circa 500bc is what to do with the cities I have just captured - to keep or raze? As Cyrus is not Financial, Organised or Philosophical, my economy will suffer too much that early on in the game. I only keep the cities I take if they are holy cities or if they are generating a lot of commerce or have lots of resources like the world's supply of sugar, for example. Otherwise I will raze them, and then use my imperialistic trait to build settlers to set up shop on the city ruins.
 
Yes, Persia mean early war. I don't like "new" Persia though, in vanilla Cyrus was nice allrounder, but in Warlords it's only about war. Very good choice if going for war, otherwise quite useless traits.

I think that razing cities is what you are looking for. On pangea-type maps it's easy to conquest whole world, even on emperor, before longbowmen arrive. Just research AH and grab horses fast, then war, war, war until there is no one left alive. Fun once, then boring...
 
You should read your history: war was what Cyrus did. He built the Persian Empire. He was Charismatic too, as many of his conquered subjects loved him.
 
What really sucks when playing Cyrus is when you start next to Shaka or Alexander, which both have beefed-up spearmen as their early UU. Impis in particular are annoying, because you can't outrun them.
 
Jorunkun said:
What really sucks when playing Cyrus is when you start next to Shaka or Alexander, which both have beefed-up spearmen as their early UU. Impis in particular are annoying, because you can't outrun them.

Immortals can fortify and use defensive terrain , I doubt it would help much unless you were defending on a Forest hill, Fortified with a Shock Promotion or you could send a mixed stack of immortals and a couple of defending Axes.
 
Next to Huyana Cyrus is by far my favorite civ, My strategy revolves around war using a stack of calvary and siege throughout the game. I play at monarch difficulty and usually get between 8-12 generals throughout most games. All go into one extremely high production city 50/50 mines farms as advisors, with 1 accademy, heroic epic, and westpoint. A stack of lvl 5-6 calvary just isnt fair, especially when it only takes 1 turn to make more.
 
In general, prefer to rush with horses, they prevent the 3rd, or 4th city of your target from having time whip additional defense and they are just damn cool. Generally, this means having to research HBR - a very risky thing as there is a good chance the enemy will have copper hooked up by then and your horses then need to find a new target, possibly with the same results. But not with Cyrus! He only needs wheel.

He starts with agriculture and hunting (both prereqs for animal husbandry). Your cap mUst have some combination (1-3) of corn, rice, wheat, pigs, sheep, cows, fur, deer, or elephants in the workable area. You do not need any techs to see these resources, so I move the starting settler 1-2 turns (or more turns, on epic/marathon) to insure this.

I research animal husbandry first (to know as soon as possible if I have horses in my cap or need to settle elsewhere for them), mining, bronzeworking, then wheel. Build a barracks while growing to a population of 4 (working as many food and commerce tiles as possible to speed population growth and beaker production for BW). With some micromanagement, you can get BW at the same time as your cap hits 4 pop.

As mentioned previously, Warlords Cyrus is Imperial. What has not been mentioned is that imperial trait = 1/2 price settlers! When your population reaches 4, whip a settler (only 1 round into the build is required!). Send your settler to settle ON horses and begin producing immortals as soon as wheel is researched. Allow the overflow from the settler whip to go into a worker, and then switch back to barracks for a population point or two and whip the worker, or ride the worker out at a 2 population.

Connect your cities with roads (perhaps you were lucky and it was possible via river). If it's possible to connect horses to your cap via river, you do not need to settle on them - you can use the time for building roads to build a stable and net 4 immortals in the same timeframe as settling on horses and building a connecting road.

I use my first great general on 2 immortals. I put the general with my medic unit to produce a medic III (perhaps morale for +1 movement) with my highest xp (pure combat promoted) immortal also in the room an continue combat promotions for him. My second great general, I drop on the high-xp combat promoted immortal alone. This will get him combat 4, leadership (+ xp bonus), and blitz. Do not stack attack with these 2 units! Do, however, use the blitzing unit to get 2 kills in 1 round at every opportunity - he should be combat 6 and morale (3 attacks/turn) in no time. Never attack with this unit under 90% success rate - the first time you go for it at 80% (you wont be able to resist as an inexperienced Cyrus enthralled with a combat 6, 3move, blitzing unit), I bet you die. Even at 99%, don't be surprised when he dies. No worries, you will have more GGs. Ok, I admit it, I occasionally (very rare, 1-3 times total) hold my breath and hit at 70%.


The thing I don't like about Cyrus is that all of this absurd power quickly wanes. Immortals are only 4s... With some luck, however, you will have a couple 150xp units by gunships, with free upgrades all the way.



While your immortals ravage the countryside, remember to also secure copper and a commerce city for classic era warmongering. In the classic era, an army of strength 4 units with bonuses against archery and axes (not all melee) is quickly obselete for use as a sole attack unit. Fortunately, they still work well as support units, to mop up archers and help defend. This early religation to support unit status is probably why they get defensive bonuses.
 
I do the same, but sometimes one point:

Wheel can be previously mining to build immortals in capital.

Best regards,
 
Ecofarm's strategy is pretty much what I follow, except I always build a worker first, then barracks until i get to size 3 city, and then start building settlers. with enough food each one should take no longer than 5-6turns. build 4 of them to grab the best resources nearby, then start building wonders (great wall) or Immortals.Great Wall is truly cataclysmic when playing Cyrus, as +100% general emergence inside borders and another +100% general points from his imperialistic trait means noone will dare attack you, or if they are stupid enough to do so then they won't last very long.
 
Ecofarm's strategy is pretty much what I follow, except I always build a worker first, then barracks until i get to size 3 city, and then start building settlers. with enough food each one should take no longer than 5-6turns. build 4 of them to grab the best resources nearby, then start building wonders (great wall) or Immortals.Great Wall is truly cataclysmic when playing Cyrus, as +100% general emergence inside borders and another +100% general points from his imperialistic trait means noone will dare attack you, or if they are stupid enough to do so then they won't last very long.

Worker first I agree.
Barracks aren't necessary that early.
I tried worker>warrior>barracks>settler (whip for 2 pop) a few times.
This gave me the best results provided there are horses near.
If you see horses in your fat cross (it happens!), you can indeed go barracks first. It's pointless to build a warrior for just a few less hammers than an immortal.
 
Seriously, try the Great Wall strategy too. Works a treat, and it doesn't obsolete. It's good to be able to let the enemy come to you in your borders in wartime, at whim.
 
He can be a pretty good REXer, too. My current game is with Cyrus. Low sea levels, so there was lots of space and no one close enough for a good rush. I built Stonehenge -- Charismatic+monuments for 2 free happiness, cheap settlers, and I settled the GP for gold to help with maintenance (in my high-production capital, later the HE/instructors/academy/Bureaucracy city, so I got good use from the hammers as well).

I also avoided my usual Liberalism run, instead going more or less straight to Engineering. I crushed one neighbor with trebs/maces, then beelined Steel and crushed another with cannons/grens. Now I just need to un-crash my economy and get to Assembly Line....

peace,
lilnev
 
I think he can still manage building better than most warmongers, possessing Charismatic and his Apothecary, which replaces the grocery and offers you +2 health on top of the normal grocery stuff. Building settlers faster is a nice boon especially since you'll probably be looking for production early on to pump out Immortals anyways. War, of course, is his strongest card, but he does have a decent deck otherwise, as Imp/Chm gives him ALOT of staying power army-wise over the course of the game and the Apothecary and Charismatic makes it easier to grow his cities bigger faster. A SE should be a big consideration with him....
 
Actually, now that I think about it, his traits don't really mesh all that well. Cheap settlers means you should be spamming cities as fast as possible, but Immortals means you should be conquering them rather than building your own, and Charismatic happiness means you should be growing vertically to larger sizes rather than either of the above. Or maybe Charismatic means you can support more whipping, but Immortals are too cheap to be whipped effectively. Nuts. I still like him, but there is a certain amount of internal tension.

peace,
lilnev
 
Actually, now that I think about it, his traits don't really mesh all that well. Cheap settlers means you should be spamming cities as fast as possible, but Immortals means you should be conquering them rather than building your own, and Charismatic happiness means you should be growing vertically to larger sizes rather than either of the above. Or maybe Charismatic means you can support more whipping, but Immortals are too cheap to be whipped effectively. Nuts. I still like him, but there is a certain amount of internal tension.

peace,
lilnev

The problem you're describing with his traits kind of lends him to be able to handle almost any situation. If you've got heaps of land and no near nieghbours, pump out some Settlers. No room to expand, conquer. No horses, bummer. :deadhorse:
 
How about some analysis of his weaknesses (he's not perfect!):
- not industrious - so someone else might beat you to those wonders. You'd better pick and choose which ones you really want.
- not organised or financial - beware of maintenance costs
- not spiritual - don't chop and change civics too much
- not philosophical - don't rely on loads of great people
- not creative - means Stonehenge is doubly important in early game
- UU requires horses - change of plan required if you can't find any horses
- early UU - you'd better be in a strong position by the time it becomes obsolete.
 
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