Petition to add Poland

[Wodan]

There's a reason why historians called the Franks a Germanic tribe. They only absorbed Latin culture after entering former Roman lands. Besides, I said modern France is a Latin culture, not a Germanic one. If beer/wine is not convincing enough, try linguistic structure, or the very basic vocabulary.

I don't disagree with your intent, but... both French and German are descendants of the "Romantic" language tree. The very name of Romantic languages gives a big hint.

By contrast, look at central european languages (Hungarian, Polish, etc), or cyrillic. You can see huge differences between them and French/German.

Basically, German is very similar to French. Polish, on the other hand, is much more similar to Russian than any Romanic language.

Wodan

 

[Antilogic]

As it is, I think Polish culture is unique enough, but their historical influence is lacking. It's really, really hard to recommend them to be a Civ, despite that I very much would like to do so.

That's the problem I have. Against the other civs I want to see added, like the Babylonians/Sumerians (pick one), Austria, and the Maya, Poland comes down in the second tier, not in the first. But this game can have an unlimited number of civilizations, so I'm hoping the next expansion pack is just a dozen or more civilization and twice that number of leaders. I'd be as happy with just that.

 

[Nocturnal]

as far as history goes i want the hittites and babylon back in the next expansion, my god the hittites were the first CIVILIZATION


to antilogic: i really want a leader/civilization heavy expansion there are still 18 traits combination not in the game and i will not get angry if they repeat some of them too

 

[Nocturnal]

An obvious flaw with this statement is that America is in. And the same applies to them. Their language is English, they were created by English. Their customs and law are based on the English civil law. Whats your point?

c'mon you just cant compare the impact of america in history with polands

 

[Ecthelion]

I dont want to affront our Polish neighbours, but this is nonsense. There are many other nations, that could be in the game - and much of them more sustainable than Poland...

When we are talking about the relation to the Civilization IV, much more better would be addition of Bohemia (Czechs) - because of famous composers like Antonin Dvorak - whos work is significantly included in the civ´s music score. The biggest proportion of great historic composers in music in Civ4 is - Germans and Austrians like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven and than Czech Dvorak!

In addition - on the real space program of USA, in the module that was sent into space with all the information about humans and their civilization, the music playing is Antonit Dvorak´s symphony form the new world (second part of the ninth symphony)!

 

[Hitti-Litti]

1) So you think that Czech Republic, or Bohemia, is suitable for Civ because Czech artist's music is played in it? Maybe it's because that his music fits in the theme. There must be better reasons for a nation to be included. They may have had some nice cultural achievements, but that's not enough.

2) Austria would be cool, but Germany covers it already. Otherwise I'd support Austria, though for other reasons than their cultural achievements.

 

[Sofista]

I don't disagree with your intent, but... both French and German are descendants of the "Romantic" language tree. The very name of Romantic languages gives a big hint.

By contrast, look at central european languages (Hungarian, Polish, etc), or cyrillic. You can see huge differences between them and French/German.

Basically, German is very similar to French. Polish, on the other hand, is much more similar to Russian than any Romanic language.

Wodan

Romance languages, Germanic languages.

 

[Vertico]

When we are talking about the relation to the Civilization IV, much more better would be addition of Bohemia (Czechs) - because of famous composers like Antonin Dvorak - whos work is significantly included in the civ´s music score. The biggest proportion of great historic composers in music in Civ4 is - Germans and Austrians like Bach, Mozart, Beethoven and than Czech Dvorak!

Well Ecthelion. You gave another reason to add Poland.
Ever heard about Chopin, Lutosławski, Paderewski, Szpilman (btw main character of "The Pianist" movie) - just few composers who are very well recognised in whole music world.

 

[Wodan]

Romance languages, Germanic languages.

Hmm. I sit corrected.

Wodan

 

[dragomaster]

I just got to mention this, It's a funny part during WWII. when Germany attacked Poland with tanks Poland still had cavalery as ther main asset. The polish generlas believed the tanks where made of pasteboard so they orderd the army to attack. so there they where in a middle of a fight, cavalery vs. tanks. jes... that ended bad.

what trait whod the polish have?

I can't think about any in specific. philisofical hmmm. agessive hmmm. finacial hmmm.

 

[Raven_Lore]

I'd rather see Canada, it has about the same amount of history as the U.S. (US. became US. in 17-- Canada in 1867) But Canada is now leading in world robotics and i'd rather see Canada than Poland

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

From a civilization versus nation-state logic, Cananda "belongs" to the American civilization, just a lot more environmentalist and a lot less violent.

I do have a question though, speaking of influance in the modern world as a condition for a civilization: what influances do ancient Egypt have on today's world, besides the polytheistic collection of Gods in ancient Greece? If all their influances were basically wiped out by the Arabic/Islamic civilization, should they have been included, since Babylon wasn't?

 

[REDY]

I dont see there point. There are many "civilizations to include, but number is limited.
Babylon
Sumer
Ethiopia
Phoenica
Byzantion
Bohemia
Poland
Hungary
Austria
Portugal
Netherlands

Its useless. Make by own.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I don't really feel England, France, Spain (close though, for their Moorish influances) or Poland has a deep enough impact,

You must be joking. England, France and Spain all influenced world history.

Perhaps this is a little complicated... I guess an example should better explain my standard. So, if I were to represent the CIV4 civilizations (with expansion):

Incans, Native American (replace Aztecs), USA, Roman, Greek (covers Carthage), German (covers vikings), Russian, Egyptian, Arabian, Babylonian (replace Persia), Indian, Chinese (covers Korean), Japanese, Mali, Mongolian, Zulu, Celtic

"Native Americans" is too general a term ; you might just as well include a civ called "Europeans". It is much better to keep the Incas. The Greeks had nothing to do with the Carthaginians - they were two completely different peoples. The Carthaginians did not even speak an Indo-European language as the Greeks did; they were a Semitic people. The Germans had nothing to do with the Vikings. The Vikings were Scandinavians. It would be better to strike out the Vikings (silly horned helmets and all) than to misrepresent them as Germans. I want both Babylonia and Persia. China and Korea are two quite different countries, and once again, we are talking about two epoples whose languages do not even belong to the same language group.

The Ottoman Turks were most definitely a civilization. It is true that they received impulses from various cultures and recruited/assimilated people from various countries. So did Rome, France and the United States.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Carthage absorbed enough Greek culture eventually, plus, Pheoniciens were a Greek colony, sort of. A lot of "civilizations" were Greek colonies.

The Phoenicians were not a Greek colony. That is utter, unhistorical rubbish.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

I'd rather see Canada, it has about the same amount of history as the U.S. (US. became US. in 17-- Canada in 1867) But Canada is now leading in world robotics and i'd rather see Canada than Poland

From a civilization versus nation-state logic, Cananda "belongs" to the American civilization, just a lot more environmentalist and a lot less violent.

And Canada's influence to modern world has been... well... tiny compared to others. Canada leads in robotics? Well, Finland should be a civilization as it opened the way for mobile phones! That would be logical, eh?

 

[paperchase417]

While we are at it we can include Sierra Leone to the list. Their UU can be a small machete weilding child on drugs that replaces the marine.

I'm not sure if thats sad or funny, so don't ask me.

 

[Vertico]

I just got to mention this, It's a funny part during WWII. when Germany attacked Poland with tanks Poland still had cavalery as ther main asset. The polish generlas believed the tanks where made of pasteboard so they orderd the army to attack. so there they where in a middle of a fight, cavalery vs. tanks. jes... that ended bad.

"During the September Campaign, the Polish Cavalry would prove to be much more successful than anybody, the Germans included, could have anticipated. Polish Cavalry brigades were used as a mobile infantry and were quite successful against German infantry. Cavalry charges were rare but successful, especially when used against infantry in un-entrenched positions. However, while Polish cavalry matched German panzers in speed and anti-infantry effectiveness, in the end it simply could not stand its ground against the tanks." http://www.braindex.com/encyclopedia/index.php/Polish_September_Campaign

Don't underestimate cavalry, espacially when it didn't need oil to move.

 

[Minnesota]

Poland adds very little. It was never really a great civilization. It was around for 200 years before Russia took it over and was awarded after WWI and WWII.

Instead we should petition for Byzantium, Mollacca, Aborigines, Any Native American Tribes, at least 1 more African tribe, Anglo & Saxian... and so on.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Poland was around for 200 years? What about Poland-Lithuania commonwealth? Or didn't you count it because it had Lithuania in it's name?

Byzantium? I consider it as a mixture of Greece and Rome, Rome gave it it's lands, Greece gave the culture. It had a great history, I know, but still I would see some other nations before it, like Poland. Byzantium is too similar to Greece and Rome.

Mollacca? You mean Malacca? No. It wasn't a great power in it's area, it was an important trading city. I'd like to see Khmer instead from Asia.

Aborigines? Why?

Native American Tribes? Yes, Iroquois maybe.

African Tribes? We have Zulu already, no need for others.

Anglo&Saxian? We have England, you know?