PH03: Happy Little Wonderland

[pholkhero]

01. Moscow: Great Wall; needs Jewish Syn; Islamic Mosque
02. Saint Petersburg: Oracle; needs Islamic Mosque, Temple of Solomon
03. Novgorod: Hanging Gardens; Chritian Cathedral, Church of the Nativity
04. Rostov: univ of sankore; 3 temples
05. Yaroslavl': Sistine chape; 3 temples; could use Islamic shrine;
06. Yekaterinburg: Spiral Minaret; 3 temples
07. Yakutsk: NO Wonder; needs Islam, NO temples
08. Sakae: Taj Maha); needs a Jewish temple
09 Cuman: NO Wonder; needs Christianity; NO temples

'Tis true. Good recall Zophos! Definitely head that way after Demo unless there's a quicker wonder on the tech tree.

 

[Zophos]

Once again, it's late. I won't do a blow-by-blow. I'm too lazy to crop my screenshots. Deal with it.

So...the highlights:

Inherited Turn - 1650 AD: MM Moscow to bring Mosque in 6 turns rather than 12.



While I'm there, I also notice that we're -3 on health. So, I trade some resources with Cyrus to even it out & grow faster. Also, while I'm there:



Brings Communism a little closer, and neither tech will do us any harm in Cyrus' hands. We can now build a few muskets to bring up our abysmal power rating.

Turn 1 - 1655: Missionary spreads Islam to Yakutsk. All cities have all three religions.

Also, nobody has chemistry for trade, but LOTS of people have Astronomy. And Astronomy will get us to Sci. Method, too...



If it seems that I'm being very liberal with tech trades, it's just that I checked, and if we miss the Kremlin, we have a ways to go for our last required Wonder. So anything that shaves turns off Communism is worth it.

Turn 3 - 1665: Democracy is in. Start on Sci. Method.

Khan secures our southern border by converting back to Judaism. I've been pouring missionaries into his cities, and I continue to do so to secure this change.

There's also a Russian revolt in Sanchu:



Checking around...we can't build the Statue of Liberty in either of our two wonderless cities. Neither one has a Forge. So, I queue a Forge in Cuman for after the Christian Temple completes, and start chopping.

Turn 5 - 1675 AD: Yep...Sanchu wants to join our Empire. Since I don't fancy trying to get a tenth Wonder, I tell 'em to make tracks:


Turn 6 - 1680 AD: I remember to revolt into Emancipation to grow our cottages faster in the big 3. We weren't using any specialists except the free one from Mercantilism anyway, so Caste System was doing no good whatsoever.

Between 1690/1695: Khan shows up begging for Democracy. So sorry, not until we build the Giant Copper Lady.



He's still Pleased, so no harm done. But let's be SURE to keep him Jewish this time...

Turn 9 - 1695 AD: Sci. Method in.



Start Communism, due in 7. BTW - We have Oil near Rostov, though I doubt we'll build a well.

Novgorod finishes its Cathedral, and now has ALL CULTURE BUILDINGS (except a Castle, and I don't think it's worth building). Set it to build Culture. Feel free to veto.

Between 1695/1700: Tokugawa gets testy, and demands that I cancel trades with Cyrus. It's actually a tough choice: Toku is the Power and points leader, and has Physics and Replaceable Parts on us (at least), so he can make trouble. On the other hands, we have some good trades with Cyrus (health resources to keep Moscow growing), and he's no slouch in the power department either. In the end, I tell Toku to stuff his demands (for a -2 diplo modifier - he's annoyed), but in the same session, I sell him Divine Right for the bargain price of 10 gold (for a +4 diplo modifier, he's back to Cautious). Feel free to tell me why this was stupid - I struggled with it for a while.



Turn 10 - 1700: Finish the Forge in Cuman. Start Statue, due in 60. On the other hand, I have two chops coming in next turn, and several more forests available nearby.

Summary and save in next message.

 

[Zophos]

Ok...in 1700, we have:

• All three of our religions in all nine cities
• All 27 temples built
• Only two cathedral-types left to build, and both are in progress: Synagogue in Moscow, and Mosque in St. Pete. Novgorod has everything (I think) and is building culture.
• Two Wonders left to build. Statue of Liberty is just started this turn in Cuman, and will take 60 turns, less any chopping. Chopping should be AGGRESSIVE on this, since it will seriously hurt if we miss it. Kremlin will be buildable once Communism arrives in 6 turns, and will go in Yakustsk (currently building a Forge).

In other news, Yakutsk is finally winning its culture wars. We've claimed more of the Dyes from Shangian, and Shangian itself is down to 55% Carthaginian.



South of Yakutsk, the Mongol tiles are down to 50% Mongol culture.

Here is the culture output at 0%:



And at 100%:


Note:

• Novgorod has all the culture it's likely to have, except (a) a free Artist from SoL, and (b) more commerce. So it's time to cottage over all the mines. I have six (!) workers near Novgorod now, putting up cottages in the woods.
• We are losing only 36 gold/turn at 100% culture - we can probably overcome this with some merchant specialists, resource trades, and/or 'build wealth' in a few cities, when we throw the switch.
• Our next GP will be coming from Novgorod, in about 7 turns. It is heavily favored to be an Engineer, which will help greatly with one of our last two Wonders.

Finally, a question: is it worth getting Biology (researchable now, in about 9 turns), after Communism, just to get another cottage or two workable in the Big 3, or should we throw the switch right after we get Communism?

And, of course, the save.

 

[Ozbenno]

Well looks like I'm up.

Up slider to 100%, Communism now one turn less.

SoL in Cuman in 50 with all trees in BFC chopped.

Communism is IN!!! I choose Physics but the slider is going DOWN! We can support 90% culture at +24gpt. Kremlin is started in Yakutsk after forge finished.

I must admit I'm sure I'm hallucinating at this offer . Can the person playing next confirm I didn't make this up?



Of course, he still won't trade with us.

Winnie wants Democracy for Military Tradition. Let me think about it, NO!

The Great Person is due in Novgorod. We have a 71% on GE (18% on GA which isn't the end of the world). I close my eyes, pray to <insert deity/being of choice> and .....



You are so going to build that SoL!!!

Brings the time down to 13 turns , was hoping he'd finish it!

After this I replace all GPs in our big 3 to Artists.

The summary, we still have a monopoly on Communism and Democracy. DON'T trade LIBRALISM as its a pre-requisit of Communism.

01. Moscow: Great Wall; 3 Cathedrals
02. Saint Petersburg: Oracle; needs Islamic Mosque, Temple of Solomon
03. Novgorod: Hanging Gardens; Chritian Cathedral, Church of the Nativity
04. Rostov: univ of sankore; 3 temples
05. Yaroslavl': Sistine chape; 3 temples; could use Islamic shrine;
06. Yekaterinburg: Spiral Minaret; 3 temples
07. Yakutsk: Kremlin in 15; needs Islam, 3 temples
08. Sakae: Taj Mahal; 3 temples
09 Cuman: Statue of Liberty in 13; needs Christianity; 3 temples

And the state of play...



Other things we may like to do.

Build Oxford Uni and Forbidden Palace in Moscow or St Petes for the +4 kultcha/turn.
Research Physics quickly (to be first) and use the free GS for an Academy somewhere (again +4 kultcha/turn)
If we miss either of these two wonders, Electricity and Broadway seem the next likely target.

The Save

View attachment 140428

 

[pholkhero]

Nice turns both of you! Ya can't beat immediate pick-ups

If we still need a couple religion spreads, don't we still need a couple temples and cathedrals or is that list Ozbenno put up NOT including the latest builds and stuff by Zophos? I'm confused

edit (i had more to say): with any luck, we'll get those last two wonders in Rex's set, and be able to head right to Culture production. I think that we should continue to research techs until we're assured of those two wonder, so perhaps a quick hop to Physics would be alright. Lastly, once we go to culture production, perhaps we should go to 15-20 turns per set since it'll mostly be Enter Pushing . . . unless, of course, something goes wrong, and we are attacked, but ~

Roster:
Pholkhero >
Zophos >
Ozbenno > just played
Imhotep > UP NOW
Rex > on deck

 

[Ozbenno]

If we still need a couple religion spreads, don't we still need a couple temples and cathedrals or is that list Ozbenno put up NOT including the latest builds and stuff by Zophos? I'm confused

My bad, all cities have all religions. Forgot to edit that bit .

 

[Zophos]

I'll also point out that

• We won't get a GS from Physics - Tokugawa already had it by the time I got Sci. Method. Biology might be more useful to us...unless we miss one of our last two wonders. Of course, at 100+ turns per tech, it won't matter anyway.
• As mentioned, all religions are spread to all our cities. The only Cathedral-type left is the Mosque in St. Pete (due in 2).
• St. Pete is now the lowest culture/turn (but check again after the Mosque). If we have a choice about where to put a culture-NW, do it there or Novgorod.
• Moscow is FINE for culture - nearly 600/turn.
• Novgorod is nearly to the 500/turn mark, but it's about 3000 total behind St. Pete.
• Why are we building Banks, now that we've thrown the slider to 0% gold? Just for Merchant specialists we might run?
• Can we sell any of our strategic resources for some extra cash to fund the 100% slider? Obviously keep any we need to finish our Wonders, but after that, do we care if we have Copper or Stone?
• We should consider building Scotland Yard somewhere and sending some spies over to Tokugawa, in case he gets all space-shippy on us.

I'm pleased to see how fast we can build the Kremlin - I was worried about the production levels over in Yakutsk.

 

[Zophos]

Also, per post #193, Immy's on auto-skip until the 20th or so. So that makes it Rex's turn.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

Holy simian poo-flinging, Batman! Wasn't I just up in this game? Anyway, I see the game, but I have some questions. It sounded to me like Pholk thinks we should keep researching until our last two wonders actually come in. as in don't turn the slider to 100 percent culture yet. I agree with this philosophy of won't do anything so radical until the group has a say in it.

Next, I don't think the spaceship is a problem for us at all. At our rates, we will win this game within 100 turns, Far before anyone can launch a spaceship. I am worried, however, about being invaded. We have more than a couple of psychopaths in this game who would gladly run all over us and I don't want them to. So I plan to build more troops but those will cost money. That would bring down the slider, I think, and that might make those banks a little more useful. So I won't interrupt their construction.

any thoughts?

 

[Ozbenno]

Both wonders are due in less than 15 and we have a monopoly on both techs so I don't see a problem. I'd leave the slider as close to 100% culture as we can manage.

I agree to bump up the military, the non-big 3 cities can build some troops. The reason behind the banks is a just-in-case we need money fast. We're at pretty good relations with all concerned, so should be all right.

I didn't change civics and forgot to review if we need to. I'd say we should be in Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, Emancipation, Mercantalism and Free Religion.

I agree with Rex, we're in no danger of witnessing a launch here.

 

[Zophos]

Yeah, Rex, the handoff from me to Oz has been pretty fast most rounds. It's a time-zone thing.

Agreed on military. We can even disband some worthless old warriors as we bring better units online - they cost just as much but do little for our power rating. I'd say just pump out some muskets in our secondary cities, and hope nobody decides to jump us before we can get a decent force built. If we finish Physics...can we trade it for enough techs to get Rifling and/or Chemistry?

As for the space race...you're probably right. My thought was that 100 turns from now is sometime in the 1900s, and I don't personally have a good feel for how fast an AI can manage a launch on Monarch. And I don't actually KNOW how far up the tech tree Tokugawa is - just that he's had Physics for at least 15 turns or so (and maybe a lot longer).

On civics, I agree with Oz, EXCEPT that Free Religion is a big loss for us. Yeah, it improves diplomacy a bit, and adds a couple points of culture, but we lose all the revenue from the Minaret, and I think we need that to keep the slider up. I'd go US, Free Speech, Emancipation, Mercantilism, and OR for now. Switch to Pacifism when we finish the last two wonders, and switch to Caste System when the cottages mature in the big three. Both switches are to allow us to pump out an Artist or two to finish out the game - Maybe farm over Rostov to make a GA farm (if we've finished cottaging the big 3)?

 

[Ozbenno]

Yeah, you're right OR, then Pacifism, makes more sense at the moment. Rostov would be a good GA farm. Next GP will be in Moscow. We should run as many artists as we can because we really want only GAs from here.

 

[pholkhero]

notice, too, that we haven't had ONE GA yet, have we?? That's not too bad! Also, I think that if there's really no danger of losing those wonders, then go whole-hog on the culture slider. If the worst happens adn we need to, we can crank it the Sci for Radio to build, what is it, Eiffel or Rock 'n' Roll?

the unfortunate part will be the 3 total turns of anarchy ~ since there's only about 15 turns on each, why not just hop right into Caste (since I assume the OR was for the build bonus) and save a whole turn (WOW, a whole turn, Mister?! that's right, johnny, a whole turn.)

 

[Zophos]

the unfortunate part will be the 3 total turns of anarchy ~ since there's only about 15 turns on each, why not just hop right into Caste (since I assume the OR was for the build bonus) and save a whole turn (WOW, a whole turn, Mister?! that's right, johnny, a whole turn.)

I'd prefer to see us stay in Emancipation until we mature the new cottages in Novgorod, at least - it shaves a whopping 35 turns off the total cottage->town time.

Another way of looking at it is that, by growing cottages sooner, you add a total of 140 commerce PER TOWN over the 70 turns it'd normally take to grow a cottage. In our case, we're growing, what, half a dozen cottages in Novgorod alone? And each commerce point is worth 4.5 culture, so...staying in Emancipation will get Novgorod to Legendary 8 or more turns faster (more total culture than a culture-bomb!), plus any bonus to St. Pete. Not a bad trade for an extra anarchy turn, IMHO.

If we just want to avoid one of the anarchy turns...save the HR->US switch until we're ready to go to Pacifism in 15 turns. Probably a good idea to avoid anarchy until the Wonders are in, anyway.

And, yes, OR is for the build bonus. I don't want to get TOO complacent about getting those last two Wonders, and switching out of OR not only costs us a turn of anarchy, but increases the build times from 13/15 to about 16/19. I'd rather stick it out for a bit longer, secure the variant, and THEN worry about getting Artists.

 

[Zophos]

Holy simian poo-flinging, Batman!

You know, I never thought I'd have a reason to post this link in an appropriate context. Live and learn.

any thoughts?

Yep. We have sufficiently flagellated the deceased equine. Let's see some turns.

 

[pholkhero]

I'm sorry. I thought we were swithcing INTO OR, but we're in that now, eh? Ahh well, in either case

[d'oh ~ i thought there was a beating a dead horse smiley!]

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

I've played us up to 1800, but my report has many screenies and I'll not write it until tomorrow. For now, I'll just leave the group in suspense over which very bad thing happened to us during my set.

 

[pholkhero]

war, but phoney

[at least, that better be it]

 

[Zophos]

For now, I'll just leave the group in suspense over which very bad thing happened to us during my set.

I hate waiting.

I'm just going to hope that my imagination is worse than reality. 'Cuz I can think of at least three Very Bad Things that could have happened.

 

[Zophos]

war, but phoney

[at least, that better be it]

Or we lost a Wonder. Or Toku completed the Apollo Project. Or...

But, yeah, I'm betting someone finally declared on us.