Phaedo02- Rage_Against_The_Machine

[Phaedo]

Switching sounds fine by me. I assume that the rifles would be to upgrade to infantry. Maybe we should build cannon in corrupt towns as well. I guess I was thinking that we would have to take a pop at Greece although I hadn't really put a timeline to the thought. Building up the army is fine by me although I think there is an upper limit in case the progress towards Indust happens to be slow.

 

[Bucephalus]

Switching sounds fine by me. I assume that the rifles would be to upgrade to infantry. Maybe we should build cannon in corrupt towns as well. I guess I was thinking that we would have to take a pop at Greece although I hadn't really put a timeline to the thought. Building up the army is fine by me although I think there is an upper limit in case the progress towards Indust happens to be slow.

The upgrade cost of cannons is prohibitive, and once we have factories and coal plants, we'll be able to knock out arty quite quickly; Rifles OTOH, only cost 30g per upgrade.

Also, we'd be paying unit support on an essentially useless unit, wheras Rifles have a valid use, given Hittites proximity.

We are well below our unit suport limit, and once we reach it we can start disbanding all but our elite cavs, IMO.

As for the timeline, I think facing tanks would be a whole new ball-game.

 

[Norton II]

Two questions before I start: First, should we switch our existing cavalry builds to rifles? Second, should we gift iron, furs, and silks to Egypt outright instead of trading them for the pitiful amount of gold they'll offer? If I don't hear back in the next two hours, I'll switch the cavs to rifles and sell Cleo our stuff for whatever she'll give us.

 

[Bucephalus]

Two questions before I start: First, should we switch our existing cavalry builds to rifles? Second, should we gift iron, furs, and silks to Egypt outright instead of trading them for the pitiful amount of gold they'll offer? If I don't hear back in the next two hours, I'll switch the cavs to rifles and sell Cleo our stuff for whatever she'll give us.

Yes to both.

We have plenty of Cavalry to cover any aggression from Hittites, and since our rep is ruined I'd be surprised if Cleo would give lump-sum gold for per turn goods, besides which she needs it more than we do.

Her horses are relitively vulnerable too; we might want to consider giving her ours if necessary.

 

[Norton II]

Yes to both.

We have plenty of Cavalry to cover any aggression from Hittites, and since our rep is ruined I'd be surprised if Cleo would give lump-sum gold for per turn goods, besides which she needs it more than we do.

Her horses are relitively vulnerable too; we might want to consider giving her ours if necessary.

She actually will give 170 gold for iron, furs, and silks, but not even 1 gpt.

 

[Bucephalus]

She actually will give 170 gold for iron, furs, and silks, but not even 1 gpt.

That's interesting; there seems to be a relaxation of the rep hit when the AI is at war; I had a similar experience with Hittites.

Just out of interest, see if she would take gpt for an obsolete tech.

She won't give gpt because she doesn't have the cash-flow.

 

[Norton II]

That's interesting; there seems to be a relaxation of the rep hit when the AI is at war; I had a similar experience with Hittites.

Just out of interest, see if she would take gpt for an obsolete tech.

She won't give gpt because she doesn't have the cash-flow.

I think our rep is affecting the price, though--she has 442 gold in the treasury. Also, we don't have an obsolete tech to sell her, but I offered her 999 gold (everything we have) for 1 gpt, and "they would never accept such a deal".

 

[Bucephalus]

I think our rep is affecting the price, though--she has 442 gold in the treasury. Also, we don't have an obsolete tech to sell her, but I offered her 999 gold (everything we have) for 1 gpt, and "they would never accept such a deal".

No, you misunderstand; I meant, see if she will sell an obsolete tech to us for gpt. (in principle of course, we don't actually want one).

 

[Norton II]

Sorry about that. She'll sell us navigation for 256 gpt, which is far more than she'd charge if our rep weren't trashed.

 

[Bucephalus]

Sorry about that. She'll sell us navigation for 256 gpt, which is far more than she'd charge if our rep weren't trashed.

True, but it shows that our rep is recoverable.

I suggest that you buy a nominal amount of gold for gpt; it doesn't need to be much, but I suspect that if we honour the deal, things might improve further.

 

[Norton II]

I'm halfway into the set, and Greece is still running away. They've taken two Egyptian cities and learned electricity; no one else has learned anything. The Hittites are probably working on fascism, the Egyptians on industrialization. I'm afraid we may have to try stealing our way to espionage soon if we're to have any hope of catching up to the Greeks.

 

[Bucephalus]

I'm halfway into the set, and Greece is still running away. They've taken two Egyptian cities and learned electricity; no one else has learned anything. The Hittites are probably working on fascism, the Egyptians on industrialization. I'm afraid we may have to try stealing our way to espionage soon if we're to have any hope of catching up to the Greeks.

There's no need to panic; as long as we have enough gold, we can steal our way to parity in one turn once we have Espionage.

However, it would be a good time now to refuse any demands that Greece might make; a short war wil enable us to get Industrialization for gpt as part of the Peace deal.

Then we have a no-risk opportunity to try a steal on Espionage - if we fail, and they DOW, we get back our gpt.

Remember that Greece is in Communism, so doing all the research themselves will get increasingly slow.

 

[Norton II]

There's no need to panic; as long as we have enough gold, we can steal our way to parity in one turn once we have Espionage.

However, it would be a good time now to refuse any demands that Greece might make; a short war wil enable us to get Industrialization for gpt as part of the Peace deal.

Then we have a no-risk opportunity to try a steal on Espionage - if we fail, and they DOW, we get back our gpt.

Remember that Greece is in Communism, so doing all the research themselves will get increasingly slow.

Wasn't panicking, just stating the situation. Unfortunately, I've already acceded to one demand from Alex. If he makes another, I'll refuse.

 

[Bucephalus]

Unfortunately, I've already acceded to one demand from Alex.

I rather thought he might; when he switched to Commie, two things changed:

1) His economy nose-dived - the 100gpt he's paying us for our lux's, suddenly hurts.

2) He gained MP's, so our lux's have become superfluous to him.

In short, he wants out of our deal.

 

[Norton II]

Here's the save: View attachment Rage_1250AD_Norton.SAV

Preflight:
-sell iron, gold, and silks to Egypt for 170 gold
-give 1 gpt to Egypt for 3 gold
-rush settlers in Arnhem and Sapporo
-switch cav builds to rifles
IBT:
-Alex demands TM and 70 gold--we cave
-Egypt offers to trade WMs; we agree and get 2 gold as well
-Osaka rifle>rifle (5); Arnhem settler>settler (30); Sapporo settler>settler (30)
1:
-found Kozuke, start worker (10)--will start worker in all new towns
-rush settler in Lugdunum
-switch Tobacco Farm and Groningen to galleons
IBT:
-Hittites finish off Maya
-Lugdunum settler>settler (30); Tokyo rifle>rifle (5)
2:
-found Satsuma and Nara
-rush settlers in Entremont and Suo
-investigate Alexandria for 130 gold:

Looks like Egypt's having its GA.
IBT: Kyoto rifle>rifle; Entremont and Suo settler>settler (30)
3:
-found Nagoya and Yokohama
-rush settler in Arnhem
IBT: Kagoshima rifle>rifle (4);Arnhem settler>settler (30);Haarlem settler>courthouse (20); TF galleon>galleon (5)
4:
-found Shiminoseki and New Kyoto
-rush settlers in Entremont, Echizen, Matsuyama, and Ice Shelf
-swtich 4 rifles to sammis
IBT:
-Hittites and Dutch sign MPP
-Izumo courthouse>bank (32); Groningen galleon>galleon (5); WHB and GF rifle>rifle (5); Entremont, Echizen, Matsuyama, and Ice Shelf settler>settler (30)
5: found New Osaka, Neo-Tokyo, and New Edo
IBT: Osaka sammi>rifle (5); Edo settler>courthouse (20)
6:
-found New Satsuma and New Kagoshima
-rush settler in Toyama
-Greeks took Egypt's horses and coal, so we gift them ours (we have extra coal)
IBT: Toyama settler>settler (30);Tokyo sammi>rifle (5)
7: found New Nara and New Nagoya
IBT: Kyoto sammi>rifle (5); Kago sammi>rifle (4)
8: rush settler in Entremont
IBT: Amsterdam bank>rifle (7); TF galleon>galleon (4); Entremont settler>settler (30)
9:
-found New Izumo
-rush settler in New Izumi
IBT:
-Groningen galleon>rifle (7); WHB, GF rifle>rifle (5); Izumi settler>settler (30)
-lux deal w/China ends
10:
-found New Nagasaki
-rush settlers in Omi and Suo

Notes:
1. I set each new town to build a worker to help speed up rails and irrigation. I don't think unit support is going to be much of a problem, and it's important to get our tax farms up and running ASAP.
2. Egypt has lost 6 cities to Greece in the last 10 turns--started with 11, down to 5. Cleo's on the way out, and Alex is still the only one with industrialization. He also has electricity, probably espionage, and maybe RP (though I haven't investigated his cities to see whether he has infantry or guerillas).
3. We have 5 galleons and one more on the way, along with 2 frigates. We also have 4 sammis. When it's time to kick off our GA by attacking the Dutch, we'll be ready. We might have to do something about that MPP first.

 

[Bucephalus]

Sounds like you had a fairly tedious set, Norton.

I don't think we need to discuss much else before Tusker plays, do we?

Just more railing, settling, and keep trying to buy Industrialization would seem to be the central themes.

 

[Norton II]

Sounds like you had a fairly tedious set, Norton.

I don't think we need to discuss much else before Tusker plays, do we?

Just more railing, settling, and keep trying to buy Industrialization would seem to be the central themes.

Tedious is definitely the word. Assuming nobody else gets industrialization, we might have enough to buy it at the end of Tusker's set. Should we do that or wait for the Hittites to get it no matter how long that takes? Cleo will probably be gone before she gets it.

 

[Bucephalus]

Tedious is definitely the word. Assuming nobody else gets industrialization, we might have enough to buy it at the end of Tusker's set. Should we do that or wait for the Hittites to get it no matter how long that takes? Cleo will probably be gone before she gets it.

I think we will have to play it by ear; lets re-assess the situation once we can afford it.

Cleo folding is a bit of a blow; we can only hope that Alex lets her off the hook soon.

 

[Elephantium]

Work is still killer busy - I'm going in again today. I'll have a better idea tonight about how busy I'll be on Monday and Tuesday, so I'll post either a "Got it" or "Please skip me" once I get home.

Can anyone think of anything I can do to prop up Cleo? Is Mao at war with Alex?

 

[Bucephalus]

Can anyone think of anything I can do to prop up Cleo? Is Mao at war with Alex?

I think we've done all we can for Cleo.

Mao is allied with Alex against Cleo.

Maybe CBob can step in and take it if you can't play until Tuesday?