Elephantium
Trampling the AI
I'll definitely be able to play this weekend. Work is finally calming down
Phaedo02- Rage_Against_The_Machine
- Thread starter Phaedo
- Start date
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Willie has escaped my attentions, too.
Then there's China to deal with, and Greece will provide a tough fight.....
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Pre-turn:
Switch production to walls in 5 border towns;
Upgrade Muskets;
Re-deploy Rifles;
Disband assorted dross;
mm core to prevent starvation in Osaka;
Switch Courthouse to Bank in Edo, ditto Harlem;
mm Izumo, Bank down from 9 to 5 turns;
Tell Mursilis to remove his Cavalry from my lawn - he DOW's;
Kill tresspassers;
Attack Cavs accross border - Dutch DOW;
Kill Dutch LB;
Attack Tirana, first Cav retreats, second gives us a MGL;
Form Cav Army, attacks Tirana, Tirana taken and temporarily held to allow retreat;
Abandon Tirana.
Switch 6 builds to Cannon - if Alex DOW's, the first casualty would be our Salt colony; hurry builds.
Hurry some Settler builds for Combat purposes.
Switch build in Kyoto to HE
Enter:
Turn 1)
Hittites lose two Cavs attacking 'New Matsuyama', two retreat, kill one Rifle (2-1);
Sammi kills Cav - GA begins (900+ gpt)
Lose Salt colony to Greek border expansion;
Kill two more Cavs; (5-1);
Move Combat Settler and 10 Rifles in to Hittite territory;
Worker gangs rail up to them.
Turn 2)
Hittite counter offensive kills one Rifle, loses two Cavs (7-2)
We have run out of Japanese names, so 'Phaedoville' is founded in honour of our Shogun.
Kill 7 Cavs, lose 2 Sammis (14-4)
Move 10 Cannon, 10 Rifles, 15 Cav, and the Army next to Kadesh.
Not quite enough gold for a careful steal...but next turn.
Greece has 'The Corporation'.
Turn 3)
Temporarily capture Kadesh, killing 3 Rifles and 3 Cavs; (20-4)
Move Settler, Abandon Kadesh, 'Buce's Choke' founded;
Attempt an Embassy steal from Alex, and.....
We now have Espionage
Turn 4)
Consolidation, while I remove a Rifle stack from outside 'Buce's Choke', rail up ready to hit Ugarit next turn. (24-6)
Turn 5)
Kyoto completes HE;
Kagoshima, Osaka, WHBilly, all complete factories > Coal Plants;
Capture and temporarily hold Ugarit;
Move Combat Settler and Cannon/ Rifle stack in to place. (27-7)
Turn 6)
Abandon Ugarit, 'Nortonburg' founded;
Rail up, Combat Settler in position to take Tarsus next turn.
Skirmishing (30-8)
Green Fields, Tokyo complete factory > CP
Turn 7)
Skirmishing (33-8)
'Tuskerny' founded;
Temporarily capture Tarsus, Rail up, Combat Settler in position, abandon Tarsus. (38-9)
'Bob's Texas Ranch' founded;
Nagasaki completes factory > CP;
We have cities finishing CP's this turn, and we have nothing to build; I hate wasting GA shields like this so I take a gamble -
our man in Athens comes up with the goods....
......and I take 'The Corporation' for Stock Ex's.
Greece has Refining - we embarked on this war none too soon.
Rush Settlers in Ice Shelf, Bizen, and New Edo.
Turn 8)
Kagoshima > CP > Intel Agency (6);
WilliesHillBilly > CP > S.Ex
Osaka > CP > S.Ex
Raze Allepo (42-12)
Cannon in position outside Hattusus;
Combat Settler in position to give access to Hattusha;
Mursilis would like peace; Of course...maybe you'd like my daughter as well?
Turn 9)
Mursilis is no longer sending Cavs;
'Monkey Town' founded;
Raze Hattusus (46-14)
Capture Hattusha; (48-16);
We now have our own source of Salt;
Turn 10)
Tokyo, Green Fields CP > S. Ex's;
Amsterdam > Factory > CP
Edo, Izamo > Banks > S. Ex's.
There's nothing that I can reach in one, and we have wounded that require healing, so I've left full movement points on everything for the next player; there are two Combat Settlers in 'Bob's Texas Ranch'.
>>THE SAVE<<
Switch production to walls in 5 border towns;
Upgrade Muskets;
Re-deploy Rifles;
Disband assorted dross;
mm core to prevent starvation in Osaka;
Switch Courthouse to Bank in Edo, ditto Harlem;
mm Izumo, Bank down from 9 to 5 turns;
Tell Mursilis to remove his Cavalry from my lawn - he DOW's;
Kill tresspassers;
Attack Cavs accross border - Dutch DOW;
Kill Dutch LB;
Attack Tirana, first Cav retreats, second gives us a MGL;
Form Cav Army, attacks Tirana, Tirana taken and temporarily held to allow retreat;
Abandon Tirana.
Switch 6 builds to Cannon - if Alex DOW's, the first casualty would be our Salt colony; hurry builds.
Hurry some Settler builds for Combat purposes.
Switch build in Kyoto to HE
Enter:
Turn 1)
Hittites lose two Cavs attacking 'New Matsuyama', two retreat, kill one Rifle (2-1);
Sammi kills Cav - GA begins (900+ gpt)
Lose Salt colony to Greek border expansion;
Kill two more Cavs; (5-1);
Move Combat Settler and 10 Rifles in to Hittite territory;
Worker gangs rail up to them.
Turn 2)
Hittite counter offensive kills one Rifle, loses two Cavs (7-2)
We have run out of Japanese names, so 'Phaedoville' is founded in honour of our Shogun.
Kill 7 Cavs, lose 2 Sammis (14-4)
Move 10 Cannon, 10 Rifles, 15 Cav, and the Army next to Kadesh.
Not quite enough gold for a careful steal...but next turn.
Greece has 'The Corporation'.
Turn 3)
Temporarily capture Kadesh, killing 3 Rifles and 3 Cavs; (20-4)
Move Settler, Abandon Kadesh, 'Buce's Choke' founded;
Attempt an Embassy steal from Alex, and.....
Spoiler :
We now have Espionage
Turn 4)
Consolidation, while I remove a Rifle stack from outside 'Buce's Choke', rail up ready to hit Ugarit next turn. (24-6)
Turn 5)
Kyoto completes HE;
Kagoshima, Osaka, WHBilly, all complete factories > Coal Plants;
Capture and temporarily hold Ugarit;
Move Combat Settler and Cannon/ Rifle stack in to place. (27-7)
Turn 6)
Abandon Ugarit, 'Nortonburg' founded;
Rail up, Combat Settler in position to take Tarsus next turn.
Skirmishing (30-8)
Green Fields, Tokyo complete factory > CP
Turn 7)
Skirmishing (33-8)
'Tuskerny' founded;
Temporarily capture Tarsus, Rail up, Combat Settler in position, abandon Tarsus. (38-9)
'Bob's Texas Ranch' founded;
Nagasaki completes factory > CP;
We have cities finishing CP's this turn, and we have nothing to build; I hate wasting GA shields like this so I take a gamble -
our man in Athens comes up with the goods....
Spoiler :
......and I take 'The Corporation' for Stock Ex's.
Greece has Refining - we embarked on this war none too soon.
Rush Settlers in Ice Shelf, Bizen, and New Edo.
Turn 8)
Kagoshima > CP > Intel Agency (6);
WilliesHillBilly > CP > S.Ex
Osaka > CP > S.Ex
Raze Allepo (42-12)
Cannon in position outside Hattusus;
Combat Settler in position to give access to Hattusha;
Mursilis would like peace; Of course...maybe you'd like my daughter as well?
Turn 9)
Mursilis is no longer sending Cavs;
'Monkey Town' founded;
Raze Hattusus (46-14)
Capture Hattusha; (48-16);
We now have our own source of Salt;
Turn 10)
Tokyo, Green Fields CP > S. Ex's;
Amsterdam > Factory > CP
Edo, Izamo > Banks > S. Ex's.
There's nothing that I can reach in one, and we have wounded that require healing, so I've left full movement points on everything for the next player; there are two Combat Settlers in 'Bob's Texas Ranch'.
Spoiler :
>>THE SAVE<<
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Got it. I'll play today!
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Tusker:
Greece has 7 techs to go until the MA, and they are building the ToE; we will need to eliminate Mursilis and Willie ASAP, and then immediately look to China.
Do what you can to make the first two happen; once our core cities have finished building Factories, Coal Plants, and Stock Ex's, build nothing but Rifles, ready to upgrade to Infantry.
You will have the Intelligence Agency in 5 turns; are you familiar with spy operations? Let me know if you are not.
If you are, try and plant a spy on Greece; if that is successful, try and steal Electricity and Replacement Parts - safe steals, of course.
Since we are so close to having the Intel Agency, I advise against any more Embassy steals - we've ridden our luck far enough with those, and if Greece DOW's after a failed steal, it will blow our chances of getting galleons to that Hittite island.
Our core is almost completely railed; use Worker turns to rail former Celt territory, but also irrigate all those mines there too - emphasize growth, for maximum taxmen.
There are plenty of Settlers being built to fill the spaces in Hittite lands; rush them when they are below 20 turns, it will cost around 80g a time - we are making 1000gpt.
Do not renew our deals with Greece.
Good luck.
Edit: Osaka has the Mil Acad queued up after it's S. Ex; that is a priority over Rifles of course, as is building Armies after it's completed.
Phaedo
Emperor
I'll need a bit more time to look at things to give any serious input but my holiday just started so I should have the time.
Just going from what I have just read, I would say that for specialist farms, you only need 2 farmed and railed grass tiles for a 5 pop 3 specialist farm. When improving the North. Keep this in mind. All we need is 10 surplus food. Anticipate the final productive value of tiles when placing cities. 2 pop 6 specialist farms are more productive than 1 pop 12 city. I don't know if we have engineers yet but if we do, look into playing with them and cops to speed up builds and build gold.
We can't have too much gold in this game. We have to have a strong military so we have to keep the gold up but if in doubt of a build, go for artillery (or Cavs as a pre-build). Don't trade luxes unless it allows you to put gpt into the deal (doubtful). If in doubt, build rifles.
That's the best that I can do without a close look at the save. The real question is: how can we beat Greece without war? (war will happen, but if we can figure out a research path, and a plan to get it we will have the tiger by the tail.
Just going from what I have just read, I would say that for specialist farms, you only need 2 farmed and railed grass tiles for a 5 pop 3 specialist farm. When improving the North. Keep this in mind. All we need is 10 surplus food. Anticipate the final productive value of tiles when placing cities. 2 pop 6 specialist farms are more productive than 1 pop 12 city. I don't know if we have engineers yet but if we do, look into playing with them and cops to speed up builds and build gold.
We can't have too much gold in this game. We have to have a strong military so we have to keep the gold up but if in doubt of a build, go for artillery (or Cavs as a pre-build). Don't trade luxes unless it allows you to put gpt into the deal (doubtful). If in doubt, build rifles.
That's the best that I can do without a close look at the save. The real question is: how can we beat Greece without war? (war will happen, but if we can figure out a research path, and a plan to get it we will have the tiger by the tail.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Greece just declared war on China. Should I help China to slow down Greece, or should I hope they die quickly in this war?
China has two luxes they're willing to trade to us, along with Democracy and Navigation. Two possible trades:
1. Dyes, Ivory -- Gems, Silks, Nationalism
2. Dyes, Ivory, Demo, Nav, WM, 16gpt, 8 gold -- Nationalism, Steam Power
3. As 2. but 29gpt for Military Tradition, too.
China has two luxes they're willing to trade to us, along with Democracy and Navigation. Two possible trades:
1. Dyes, Ivory -- Gems, Silks, Nationalism
2. Dyes, Ivory, Demo, Nav, WM, 16gpt, 8 gold -- Nationalism, Steam Power
3. As 2. but 29gpt for Military Tradition, too.
SimpleMonkey
King
Is there still room over on Greece's home territory to plant a seaport city where Egypt once was? Much easier to land a sea invasion when you don't have to storm Normandy. It might flip, but if you get there while there's still some room and rush some cheap culture, I think the odds are good.
When it comes time to send a Fed Ex of pain to Greece, I'd recommend a slow infantry pillage campaign, razing some core cities. That should slow Alex down some. Infantry, flak (whenever you get it), and arty should do the job.
When it comes down to it, Japan could go Commie and wage perpetual war, leaving Alex enough to keep up the research, and keeping his resources disconnected. Should still be able to do steals during wartime, as long as the Intel Agency is up.
Contrawise, I suppose it could also work to capture a bunch of Greek towns, then gift them to Mao and thus give Alex a healthy rival.
Eitherway, that little blonde boy in a tunic is going to be crying for mamma.
Just a thought.
EDIT: x-post with the Tusker. I'd go with plan B. Take sides with Mao, ship some bad boys over, and give China some real estate.
When it comes time to send a Fed Ex of pain to Greece, I'd recommend a slow infantry pillage campaign, razing some core cities. That should slow Alex down some. Infantry, flak (whenever you get it), and arty should do the job.
When it comes down to it, Japan could go Commie and wage perpetual war, leaving Alex enough to keep up the research, and keeping his resources disconnected. Should still be able to do steals during wartime, as long as the Intel Agency is up.
Contrawise, I suppose it could also work to capture a bunch of Greek towns, then gift them to Mao and thus give Alex a healthy rival.
Eitherway, that little blonde boy in a tunic is going to be crying for mamma.
Just a thought.
EDIT: x-post with the Tusker. I'd go with plan B. Take sides with Mao, ship some bad boys over, and give China some real estate.
Phaedo
Emperor
I think I'd give him MT and not take too much of his gold. If we bankrupt him it will only make Al's job easier. I'd take the luxes though
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
I was thinking that plan 1. would help Mao slow down Alex's advance, plan 2. would help us both - I'd really like to see us switch to Democracy and end the war with Willie, then end the war with Murray after we kick him off our continent. Once 20 turns have elapsed, we declare on Willie and quickly wipe him out, then declare on Murray and wipe him out once *that* peace deal runs out.
Then, if Mao is still alive, I propose landing an invasion force to wipe him out.
...and plan 3 would hasten Mao's demise by ruining his economy.
I'm assuming that we're going for the Two-Horse Race plan where we eliminate all the civs other than Greece, rely on tech steals to catch up, and fight resource-denial wars to keep Alex from launching to Alpha Centauri first.
Then, if Mao is still alive, I propose landing an invasion force to wipe him out.
...and plan 3 would hasten Mao's demise by ruining his economy.
I'm assuming that we're going for the Two-Horse Race plan where we eliminate all the civs other than Greece, rely on tech steals to catch up, and fight resource-denial wars to keep Alex from launching to Alpha Centauri first.
Phaedo
Emperor
We are but Mao will be easier than Alex regardless of what happens. We need to get rid of Willie and Murray first. The 2 horse race plan is to stave off a diplo victory by Alex. If he is at war with China, that works temporarily. Al is he challenge and anything that can get him weaker and slow him down is helpful.
If one of them is going to get stronger, I'd prefer it to be Mao. I don't think Demo will be ideal for us. The WW will really hurt us, especially with all the war we are planning.
If one of them is going to get stronger, I'd prefer it to be Mao. I don't think Demo will be ideal for us. The WW will really hurt us, especially with all the war we are planning.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Eh, I was thinking Demo would be fine while we finish off Murray and Willie. We could switch to Commie or even Monarchy when we have to start dealing with Mao and Alex.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I reallt don't understand why you would want to switch to Democracy; at this stage we will draw maximum turns of Anarchy, and we're making 1000+gpt - it would take several games to make up for that kind of gold, and the WW would make our Greek campaign impossible - the fighting will be long and fierce.
Also, because we have Sistine and JS Bachs, WW will be no problem in Republic, so neither do we need to go Commie; the economy would nose-dive, and all we would gain is a slightly better chance of success with our Spy missions.
And to make it work, we would need to build Courthouses and Police Stations in all of our tax farms; a switch like that would have needed to have been planned long before we planted those farms
Forget China - they are dead meat; they will lose their continental cities inside 5 turns, their island not long after.
Finishing Willie and Mursilis is our top priority; once they have gone, so has the threat of a UN victory, and it will be game over for Greece. Trust me.
Just stay away from any thoughts of revolution.
Also, because we have Sistine and JS Bachs, WW will be no problem in Republic, so neither do we need to go Commie; the economy would nose-dive, and all we would gain is a slightly better chance of success with our Spy missions.
And to make it work, we would need to build Courthouses and Police Stations in all of our tax farms; a switch like that would have needed to have been planned long before we planted those farms
Forget China - they are dead meat; they will lose their continental cities inside 5 turns, their island not long after.
Finishing Willie and Mursilis is our top priority; once they have gone, so has the threat of a UN victory, and it will be game over for Greece. Trust me.
Just stay away from any thoughts of revolution.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Um, Japan is Religious. 1-turn Anarchy ... right? I was thinking that our economy would flourish in Democracy for 20-40 turns - up until it was time to start serious invasion of the Greek continent. For now, I'll continue in Republic, beating Murray into submission.
Oh, and China already lost their island (on the IT when Greece declared on them!) - I'm thinking it has an important resource if Greece went to war over it.
Oh, and China already lost their island (on the IT when Greece declared on them!) - I'm thinking it has an important resource if Greece went to war over it.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Elephantium:
I estimate that Greece could be as little as 30 turns away from Fission, bearing in mind two free techs from ToE, and the change of Era tech; we must finish Willie and Mursilis in that time.
Please don't allow yourself to be distracted from that; right now that is the absolute top priority.
I estimate that Greece could be as little as 30 turns away from Fission, bearing in mind two free techs from ToE, and the change of Era tech; we must finish Willie and Mursilis in that time.
Please don't allow yourself to be distracted from that; right now that is the absolute top priority.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I had forgotten we were religious; nonetheless, there is absolutely no advantage in revolution; Demo is the most inappropriate of Govts for our needs, which are to continue with war until Mursilis and Willie are gone.
Only then can we breath easily.
As a matter of interest, you can check with CivAssistII what the difference Demo would make to the economy; I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't make up for even one turn of Anarchy.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Also, bear in mind that we could get a DOW from Greece at any time; if that happens, we will have no chance of getting galleons to that Hittite island.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Elephantium:
Because I don't want you to feel that your idea was dismissed out of hand (I promise you, they never are), I loaded my save and traded Demo from China, then checked with CivAssist. Switching to Demo would actually leave us 56gpt worse off.
Because I don't want you to feel that your idea was dismissed out of hand (I promise you, they never are), I loaded my save and traded Demo from China, then checked with CivAssist. Switching to Demo would actually leave us 56gpt worse off.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Good points. I went back and checked CA II - it actually looks like Demo would slow down our economy! So much for my thinking that the Demo commerce bonus would help us out 
Edit: cross-post!
Thanks. In hindsight, it was a boneheaded idea, but I do appreciate that you checked with CA to get some data.
Going back a few posts...is there anything you'd like me to keep in mind for managing the Intelligence Agency? I have the idea that planting spies should only be attempted once per four turns or so; otherwise, your risk of getting caught increases for the second and subsequent attempts. Or is this an old wives' tale? Also, are there any constraints (other than income) regarding tech steals?
Edit: cross-post!
Thanks. In hindsight, it was a boneheaded idea, but I do appreciate that you checked with CA to get some data.
Going back a few posts...is there anything you'd like me to keep in mind for managing the Intelligence Agency? I have the idea that planting spies should only be attempted once per four turns or so; otherwise, your risk of getting caught increases for the second and subsequent attempts. Or is this an old wives' tale? Also, are there any constraints (other than income) regarding tech steals?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Good points. I went back and checked CA II - it actually looks like Demo would slow down our economy! So much for my thinking that the Demo commerce bonus would help us out
Edit: Oops, cross-post!
Ah, therein lies your mistake; Demo gived no more of a commerce boost than Republic, just a little less corruption.
