Phaedo02- Rage_Against_The_Machine

Good set Norton. I just looked at the save and things look good. I was able to squeeze out 917gpt with some MMing changes. It makes sense to give farms with fresh water the higher food producing tiles.

EDIT: After checking the saves again, it is 973gpt after the MMing up from 950gpt. I just checked the saves with CAII before

That Greek destroyer off the coast is a bit scary eh?

The roster:
Phaedo On Deck
Bucephalus
Elephantium Simple Monkey Honoured Observer and alternate
Smart AWOL
Norton II [/B
Commando Bob ]UP

I don't know if Cbob is still with us. I may have time to play later today but probably tomorrow. If we don't hear form him by Monday, I'll take it. (that's about 24h form this post)
 
If he wants in, I don't have a problem with it. Things are getting a bit complicated so it might be better for him to get in on the next rotation and help us out with insight for the next few sets.

What are we going to do about Murray? He has 2 cities left and his vote for Al would lose us the game. The problem is getting troops there. We would have to run a gauntlet of Greek boats to get up there. We might be able to get away with it with some luck and moving our small navy between cities as much as possible. It would take about 14 turns though and that might be too late. We can hope that Al takes him out but it looks like he cares more about us. The only quick fix I could think of is an MA against Al but it doesn't solve the problem. The other option would be to rush some boats up north. This is probably the best in my opinion. If we did it quickly, we could probably get them there with limited Greek interference.

Any other ideas?
 
Firstly, I think that you are worrying unnecessarily.

It went unnoticed (by me at least), but Greece completed ToE during Tusker's set; that explains where they suddenly got Destroyers and Bombers from - they chose Flight & Combustion as their free techs.

We have to assume that they are researching/ have researched Atomic Theory since then, but they are not building Hoover's, so it's reasonable to believe that they don't have Electronics yet.

Neither do they have Tanks, or we would be seeing them by now; ditto Mass Production and Battleships.

So they are three techs away from the MA; then it's only a 33% chance that they will get Fission as their free change of Era tech, then they must build the UN.

Then, Hittites would almost certainly abstain in any vote - they certainly won't vote for us, and they are at war with the Greeks.

That said, if we don't want to take any chances at this stage (and I think that's probably sensible - we've climbed mountains to get this far), the solution is ridiculously easy.

In 3 or 4 turns, Alex will talk to us again.

All it takes is a slight variation of the previous theme.

Last time, we were very close to affording three techs; this time we have more gpt, and we will get three. (our choices are RP's, Scientific Method, Refining, and Communism; my vote would have to be for the first three - although I think WW in the MA will force us to change Govts, we are just not set up for Communism, and it would cost us a fortune to make it so).

It would require proper mm of the tax-farms, and our major cities building wealth again, but if we can get it to 1100gpt, that should be enough for all three; if we're not quite there, it will certainly be close enough to make up the balance with lump sum gold - we currently have 26,000+ and counting.

So, it would be the same routine as last time - don't start any new builds that won't finish in time.

The only differences this time should be that we don't tie in an alliance against Mursilis - WW would return immediately, and that we must honour our agreement (ie don't try and plant a Spy on Alex) for long enough to deal with Mursilis.

With proper pre-planning, this would be 5-6 turns; while we are waiting for Alex to talk, we could short rush 3 or 4 Galleons (however many we think necessary) in the far NE of our territory (Seaside Villa and neighbouring towns). From there it is two moves to the Hittite island; if we send the two Cav Armies, and maybe 8 Elite Cavs to be certain, we could finish Mursilis, and be back home in six turns.

It will have cost us 6 - 7,000g to be rid of Mursilis, and pick up three more techs.

Then it would be back to the original plan:

Try to plant a Spy, if successful try a steal, keep stealing until we fail and Alex DOW's again.

It will mean another 6 or 7 turns of suffering bombardment without reply, but it will be the last time; next time we pull this stunt, we will get Flight.

With Flight we get Flak and Bombers; along with Infantry and Arty (which we will have soon) and our Armies, we will have everything we need to start building up an invasion force.

Phaedo/ CBob (whoever is up), does this make sense to you?
 
Got it! I wasn't worrying too much, just wanted to keep it in mind. I think my last post ended with the idea of rushing boats in the NE;)
 
Both.
I'm not going to play until I have a good night's sleep. If Cbob speaks up we can discuss it. I get the plan but I'm not going to play when I could make serious mistakes.
 
Couple of thoughts, Phaedo.

When we DOW Hittires we'll get our WW back for a couple of turns; I suggest you mm for happiness, and just let starvation happen if necessary - I doubt if you'll be able to use the slider without affecting our payments to Greece.

We should change the build in Entremont - as a tax farm there is really no need for a temple.
 
Bucephalus said:
Couple of thoughts, Phaedo.
We should change the build in Entremont - as a tax farm there is really no need for a temple.
Click to expand...

I was MMing a bit in preparation. I think I got the gpt up to 977 at last count. Changed all the builds to wealth or cannon. One of the things I learned from the Bede thing was that tax farms bigger than 6 end up with a net benefit even after all the corruption. Markets are the way to deal with their happiness issues as the multiplier won't be wasted (although the benefit is marginal). It looks like we have a couple of cities on rivers that have potential to get bigger than 6.

I'll play in a bit.
 
Entremont got a clown to prevent a riot. I changed the build to a market as it will pay for itself (and not much more) and keep them happy. It's ages from being built mind you so it can always be changed to a cannon. The city can support a pop 12 though

Start temples for short rushed galleons

Figure I might as well use the cannon for something so red-line 4 Greek boats next to Ice Shelf.

Breda needed a clown as well.

IBT Alex bombs the heck out of us. Only unit causalities though and those in rax towns.

T1 1455AD
Bomb some Greek ships
Rush the galleons (worked out to about 200g each)
Used the workers to work Murray's old land. There is a lot of work to do up there. MM a bit more and we are at 1005gpt
Just for the record, when we are setting up specialist farms, watering and railing grass should be our first priority then plains. All the mines need to be changed, desert should be left alone until everything else is done and hills and Mountains get ignored (not that anyone wasted workers on them)

IBT Bombing runs but it seems Murray has a navy that is keeping Alex a bit busy

T2 1460AD
Bomb some more boats
Worker moves and MMing
Found Norton's Fish Farm
realize that all our cavs are on Willie's old island. Send a mini fleet to trade them with rifles. We'll need arty there to really defend it but I'll leave at least 1 cav on case.

IBT Alex effectively bombed citizens. That sucks. I'd rather take the unit causalities. We lost 2gpt

T3 1465AD
Get some cavs back to the homeland.
Improve more land.
MM for gold
Up to 1028gpt should have been 1030:(
Alex is willing to negotiate
He is up RPs, Refining, Sci Meth, Free Art. Commie, Ironclands and Fascism.
Get RP, Ref and SM for 1072gpt and 7g hard cash
Ships sail for Hittite land next turn.

IBT Zzzzz

T4 1470AD
The fast workers are so nice. Almost finished improving our land.
MM for gold

IBT See the huge Greek navy of destroyers and battle ships.

T5 1475AD
Finish improving the specialist farm land. I'll join the native workers to cities next turn to get them up to full productivity.
Declare on Murry and land our forces.
I'd like to upgrade some cannon to take a shot at the Greek Navy after we deal with Murray but I don't know how much the steals will cost so I wait.
Changed Osaka's army build to a palace pre-build for Hoover when the time comes. It's a shame we didn't put the MA in Kagoshima
Upgrade some cannon but don't go below 23000g

IBT Zzzzz

T6 1480AD
Take out the Hittites with no losses. They had a source of oil.
Lots of MMing and improving (up to 50gpt now)
I suppose it is time to start spy missions.
Tried to plant the spy and Al declared. I suppose I'll try again at the end of my set.
Upgraded the rest of the cannon.
Did a final tour of cities for cash.
21655 in the bank with 1174gpt

IBT Alex lands a force on old Hittite land.

T7 1485AD
Abandon the Hitties city (we'll be lucky to keep the southern one.
Pillage the roads around it to slow down Alex
Use Celt slaves to get all our specialist farms up to top productivity (1246gpt)
Up the lux slider to deal with WW. Still making 1166gpt

IBT Al is giving us a real whipping with those bombers.
He landed infantry on Willie's old island and some infantry and cav on our homeland. He also stole our military plans

T8 1490AD
Kill the invaders
Unsuccessfully attack the invaders on old Dutch lands.
Rush a couple of arty.
Make 3 pollution parties (1 clears some) The rest of the slaves work on railing the perimeter of our continent for movement purposes.

IBT More Units go to Willie's old lands.

T9 1495AD
Same worker turns.
Send some arty over to ex-Dutch lands.
Upgrade more rifles

IBT More of AL's units show up, Delft is attacked. Lose 1 infantry but fights off the attack.

T10 1500AD
Bomb units around Delft
I had to abandon the Hittite island. Couldn't hold off 6 infantry with all the air support Al has.
The southern Galleons are loaded with infantry to send to the Dutch Island. They will be enough to take out the forces that Al lands with the arty that is already there.
Get a spy in Athens.

Didn't try a steal. I thought there might be some discussion over what we want. Alex should be ready for peace next turn so perhaps we should wait to steal until after we get his next tier of techs and then bug him again so we don't have to pay him.

Economically we are doing well. He has a huge advanced navy that will be a pain. We will have to attack his mainland at some point. Combustion will give us what we need to make that happen.

Spoiler :

Rage1500.jpg

 

Attachments

Excellent set, Phaedo.

Abandoning those Hittite cities rather than have them captured, and not trying the steal, were absolutely the right decisions.

Well done. :clap:
 
I don't think there is anything to discuss regarding the next techs; assuming we get another three, Flight, Mass Production, Atomic Theory seem like no brainers.

Getting them would give us a chance to steal to parity with one (maybe two) successful steals, now we have a Spy in place.

Invading the other continent merely requires a period of peace; our war weary citizens would like that, too.

Am I up?
 
Actually, I have one issue; do we realy want to commit to a pre-build on Hoover's?

We have no guarantee that we'll get it, and I'd rather have the Armies in hand for when we go to Greece.

Edit: And if we do, can we not use the Pentagon as a pre-build in Kagoshima?
 
Can we still use the pentagon? I had to disband 2 armies on the old Hittite island. We only have 1 in the field. I think if it had been an option, I would have used it.

I'm easy on the pre-build. I just thought that we would be in line for it fairly quickly, Alex hasn't started it (I don't think he is working on any wonders) and that we had enough armies for the moment. I think it is just 3 turns of shields wasted so not a big deal. As you like.
 
It's wrong in every way:

a) It will be done in 10 turns - we don't even have Atomic Theory, much less Electronics.

b) Both Osaka and Tokyo make more shields - if we must have Hoover's, why not them?

c) Hoover's won't pillage Aluminium or Uranium - Armies will.

Yes, I realise now that you lost both Armies; I hate to be critical, but did it not occur to you to get them safely home before trying to plant the Spy?
 
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