Philadelphia plumbers have too much power

JtheJackal

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I've been follwoing this story in the Philadelphia Inquirer for a week or two and this was the result.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/14264558.htm

Phila. no-flush standoff unclogged, with a catch
A deal aids Comcast Center's bid to be the tallest green building. But plumbers will install unnecessary pipes.


By Inga Saffron

Inquirer Architecture Critic
A waterless-urinals agreement is in the can, and that means that the Comcast Center will be able to install the environmentally friendly basins in its new headquarters, a spokesman for Mayor Street announced last night.

Street brokered the complex deal between the developer, Liberty Property Trust, and Plumbers Union Local 690, with support from State Sen. Vincent J. Fumo after the potty standoff was made public in The Inquirer and became a cause celebre for the city's environmental groups.

The agreement clears the way for Liberty to install 116 no-flush urinals in the men's rooms at the 58-story Comcast Center, and increases the chances that the 975-foot skyscraper will earn the title of America's tallest green building.

Liberty, however, was forced to accept a long list of conditions to open the way for the green devices. Most significantly, it agreed to install standard water lines with the urinals, although they are unnecessary and will not be connected. The plumbers contend this is a backup measure, in case the urinals don't work.

While Liberty and the union have worked out the deal, it must still be approved in a meeting today by the Plumbing Advisory Board, an obscure but powerful body that reviews all plumbing-related changes to the city's building code. Liberty would receive a one-time-only variance.

Made up entirely of plumbers and plumbing contractors, the advisory board had blocked the introduction of the increasingly popular, no-flush basins, which require less work to install. But after Street and Fumo intervened, the board agreed to permit Liberty to use the urinals on a trial basis, said Robert D. Solvibile Sr., who runs the Department of Licenses and Inspections. He said he expected unanimous approval when the board considers the variance today.

Despite the restrictions imposed by the plumbers, Liberty vice president John Gattuso hailed the agreement as an advance for the green building movement. "We believe this ensures that Comcast Center will take its place as one of the preeminent high-rise buildings in the world," he said in a statement issued by Liberty.

But this hardly guarantees that new urinals will be flushless in Philadelphia. Solvibile said the plumbers union was allowing only an exemption for Liberty, and only because it was installing the backup water lines. The developer also agreed to a strict maintenance program that involves scrubbing the urinals daily, changing their chemical cartridges regularly, and submitting to twice-yearly inspections.

A permanent code change is a long way off. "This is going to take years to evaluate," said Solvibile.

That means that other developers might also have to raise a stink if they wanted to install water-saving urinals.

During discussions between Liberty and the union, Solvibile said, he became a convert to the technology. At the same time, he said, "there are lot of places I would never allow it: bars, restaurants, schools."

The Comcast tower, designed by Robert A.M. Stern Architects, includes a variety of energy- and water-saving technologies that could help it win a coveted certificate from the U.S. Green Building Council. No tower its size has achieved that distinction, although the 945-foot Bank of America Tower in New York is also going for the green.

Liberty estimates that the urinals will conserve about a million gallons of water a year and save the company about $10,000 in construction costs. Liberty would have saved even more if not for the backup lines.

But saving money isn't the issue, Gattuso said.

Not getting stuck behind New York on the toilets is.

City plumbers have been making a huge fuss over waterless urinals that are planned for Philadelphia's next tallest building currently under construction. The plumbers have been against the urinals because they would get less work in installing pipes. They have been trying unreasonably hard to prevent Philadelphia okaying the urinals. Now to save water and money the building will have to install "backup" pipes. It shouldn't be this hard to conserve.
 
Oh god, I give up on humanity.
 
wow.

a 'backup'..... I wish those morons would come here and visit an autobahn toilet. 90% of them use the 'green' urinals, and they all work fine. How can they be so dumb, dumb, dumb to go for an excuse that is so obviously a lie?
 
Lotta good the backup is going to do if they're not even connected. Be just as big a job to connect them if needed with them there as if they had to start from scratch.
 
The interest the plumbers have in blocking conservation is obvious.. sad, but not really surprising, that they do everything they can to preserve their business.
Seems to me the real problem is that they are in a position to actually block changes to the building code. They're supposed to be an Advisory board, for chrissake! So why can't the City Council, Mayor or whoever simply overrule them? Who says they have to take the 'advice'?

Just another example of special interest groups being allowed to block change - we have the same kind of BS in Germany... that's why reforms are always watered down and nothing really changes. :mad:
 
Dragonlord, it is indeed bad here, and I am not sure whether Ulla Schmidt isn't worse - she is not an interest group but still lies and deceives. :mad: At least, the plumbers protect THEIR OWN interests!
 
An update the day after this article says they mistakenly reported that the pipes were forced by the plumbers and that all Liberty Trust buildings have backup pipes like this. However, any Liberty Trust building built in Philadelphia in the next five years can't have waterless urinals. (That if they build any)

Luckily it isn't as bad as I thought, but still noone should havee cared that they were installing waterless urinals.
 
If this is the most rediculous building regulation in your town, you have the best gov in the world. Building regs the world over are daft, forcing people to fit water pipes to urinals is relitavly sensible in comparison to much leglislation.
 
What a waste, special interest strikes again.
 
Wow, I never knew this. Philly is a mess ;)

I remember back when the Republican National Convention was in town, my dad plugged a power cord in because he was trying to be helpful (he's a journalist, so they were allowed in while things were being set up). The problem was that it wasn't his job to do this (the Philadelphia Trade Union was in charge of setting it up and they had specific people to plug things in and pull things out), so everyone was pissed off at him.
 
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