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[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. Seek

    Seek Chieftain Supporter

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    The loyalty bonus only applies to self-founded cities.
     
  2. Hakan-i Cihan

    Hakan-i Cihan Chieftain

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    I just realized that but stil some science bonus after all.
     
  3. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    Sarah says in the video Biremes have a much stronger combat bonus, and she emphasized much. Do we know how much is much? I didn't catch the combat strength in the video.
     
  4. Laxley

    Laxley Chieftain

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    I had assumed that domination would count the *original* capital too, but Sarah says "move her original capital" and in the footage Carthage gains the Original Capital star symbol and not the New Capital star.
     
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  5. Kaan Boztepe

    Kaan Boztepe Chieftain

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    settlers are dirt cheap , extra trade routes also ok.
    how long does the project to move take? to make sense it doesnt need to take long and also do the capital building bonuses move with you?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  6. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Chieftain

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    Now that my mourning of the Carthagian Elephants is done, some thoughts on Phoenicia:

    Mediterranean Colonies: This full loyalty thing is pretty decent actually, it opens up Phoenicia’s settling options a good bit. You can forward settle the heck out of your neighbors without much consequence. The Writing boost, however, is pretty trivial in my opinion; that’s a really easy eureka to get, so it doesn’t amount to much.

    Founder of Carthage: This is something I wish every Civ had, but as a unique, it’s a little underwhelming. Outside of alleviating some loyalty pressure on another continent if you slip into a dark age, it seems mostly gimmicky. The bonus production and trade routes, however, seems really, really good. It’s only for one city, since it’s tied to the Gov. Plaza, but the bonus is so good that I don’t particularly mind.

    Bireme: Not a war elephant, so it’s the worst unit in the game. :sleep:
    Ok, but in all honesty I don’t think this unit will be all that significant. Classical era naval dominance really doesn’t matter, as we all know with Norway, so even if it’s significantly stronger, I don’t know if I particularly care. The naval trade route protection however might be more useful than Mali’s land counterpart, since naval barbs are a bit more unpredictable. Still fairly gimmicky.

    Cothon: I love that we have two uniques of the same district, it opens things way up for a possible third expansion. The district itself is a bit bland, but potentially powerful. Churning out naval units like no one’s business could be great, and that is a very heavy bonus to apply to settler production. However, harbors are not high on my production queue, and it seems like shipbuilding might be necessary to get the most out of Phoenicia’s settlers, so realistically, this might not be all that strong. It could, however, be amazing.

    Overall, I’m a bit underwhelmed by Phoenicia. They’re not as wacky or unique a Civ as I expected, and most of the things that make them unique seem like largely gimmicks. Still, there is a lot of upside for some of their strengths in game, and they could be really good for domination and science with that production bonus.

    Current power rankings: Maori > Hungary > Inca > Sweden > Ottomans > Phoenicia > Canada > Mali
     
  7. Seek

    Seek Chieftain Supporter

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    30 vs 25 for the galley
     
  8. bite

    bite Unoffical Civilization Geographer Moderator

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    Well I called the loyalty change, but wow, that is a big shift
     
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  9. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

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    To me, the logical ability spam for them:
    -Grab an early government plaza in your original cap, plus building the Ancestral Hall
    -Tech out to harbors, and build a Cothon there for virtually free (+50% bonus to building plus half price unique)
    -Use governor slots to get Magnus to tier 2 for no penalty to settlers
    -Use policy slot to build settlers at +150% bonus
    -Settle along the coastlines, and move your capital to contain loyalty pressure

    The real questions here are whether you can get this done fast enough to make a difference.
     
  10. Leathaface

    Leathaface Warlord

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    Actually @Hakan-i Cihan screenshots the Cothon gives you 1 Science and 2 gold per citizen, that is pretty powerful.


    I feel Hungary is stronger, they get 50% production towards districts and it's buildings in most (if not all) of their cities.

    You can only build the Government Plaza in one city, so you should only get the 50% bonus production towards districts in 1 city only? Unless being able to move your capital somehow changes this.

    Can you not build a lighthouse in a Cothon?
     
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  11. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    Doesn't matter. Build a massive navy to go along with it and the coast will be yours.
     
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  12. pgm123

    pgm123 Warlord

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    I was not aware. I had been avoiding mods that had UDs. Time to start downloading again.

    Exactly. A civ isn't interesting if it already fits the way you've been playing. If you roll Phoenicia, it should change how you play. The Harbor is a good district, minus Great Admirals being kind of poor. But if navies are generally better, maybe GAs are decent.

    It depends on your map. If you're on an island or archipelago map, you have to rush to shipbuilding to meet other civs. That can be a pain. I might go sailing->pottery->writing with Phoenicia to get the campus down quickly.
     
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  13. VermelhoRed

    VermelhoRed Chieftain

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    Very interesting set of abilities...

    One thing I can't help but think would be better would be if they split the water tiles in "seas" like they did with land and continents, then their ability could have been 100% loyalty for all cities with districts bordering the same "sea" as the capital. Would fit better, historically.
     
  14. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    It's mutually exclusive with the Market though.
     
  15. Metecury

    Metecury Chieftain

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    They definitively updated the look of all units. Can't wait to see what they came up with for the different culture groups.


    I like this civ, the writing boost is obviously just for flavor but the rest is good. You can settle anywhere on your main continent and then colonize easily new continents by switching capitals. The city with the government plaza will be quite the power house.
     
  16. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Warlord

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    I think that maybe the game should only allow you to move your capital once or twice per game. Being able to constantly move your capital over and over again all the time to gain an advantage seems very gamey to me.
     
  17. Kibikus

    Kibikus Chieftain

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    Unless they've changed the loyalty mechanisms, all her abilities tied to that are underwhelming. I've never found loyalty to really be an issue in my games.

    Faster expansion is great, but city spots get snatched very quickly in this game, especially on Deity. And it's not like Phoenicia can go out and settle a one tile island in the middle of the ocean, and have it be useful, like Indonesia for example. I don't think Biremes will be strong enough to conquer other civs' coastal cities early on.

    Still, it'll probably be a good civ to roleplay on an island plates or archipelago map.
     
  18. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Warlord

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    Decent if not as interesting as some of the other new civs
    Not the worst but not the best
    I don't suppose this would've been doable but if would've nice if their loyalty bonus had been for all cities on the coast of a particular body of water rather than just one continent
     
  19. Leucarum

    Leucarum Chieftain

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    I wonder if they decided to make a loyalty flipping civ as the Mapuche hadn't quite worked as they intended? I like the loyalty mechanic so it would be nice to see it taken advantage of. How much of a boost does your capital actually give to loyalty? Trying to work out how viable a play style it would be...

    Played that way these guys might want to spread their envoys around a lot of city states to get big boosts to yields in whichever capital they choose rather than becoming suzerains of a few... Keep an eye on who is in a dark age and thus best to forward settle... Amani and Dido are new BFFs...
     
  20. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    I'm going to reserve final judgement for the final look. I feel there's something missing.
     

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