[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[nzcamel]

Yup a unique luxury would've been fun! I wish they had gone a bit more in the direction of Mali and Maori for Phoenicia's design.

They do share the Mali ability of their unique protecting traders.

Have they changed the Eurepa for Writing or not? Because if not that's just the one for meeting another civ which you get pretty much every game without really trying so that's a pretty useless bonus if so

Very good point. Should have been the whole tech, not just the boost.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Okay, so if you move your capital to a new continent, all future coastal cities on that continent will be 100% loyal, correct? Am I reading this right? This actually improves the usefulness of moving your capital. Of course the cities on your old continent could be hurting. But it gives them flexibility if you happen to start on a continent split and one is larger than the other.

Yeah, I have to remember that "continents" gamewise isn't the same as continents in RL.

 

[Leathaface]

I wonder how viable it is to like build a city on a different continent next to some other civ's city and then immediately make it your capital in order to try to get enough loyalty pressure on the opponent's city to just peacefully grab it for yourself. Could make it a kind of passive aggression a bit like how Gandhi can with forward settling

The video showed that happening, Carthage settled next to an Ottoman city and moved their capital to the new city, Ottoman city loyalty flipped. The new city needed a Cothon though.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

How often do you really think you'll be moving your capital?

You could play an interesting game where you forward-settle civs near the coast with several cities, build up those cities, loyalty flip the other civ, then move your capital to a different continent and do it again.

 

[frubox]

I wonder how viable it is to like build a city on a different continent next to some other civ's city and then immediately make it your capital in order to try to get enough loyalty pressure on the opponent's city to just peacefully grab it for yourself. Could make it a kind of passive aggression a bit like how Gandhi can with forward settling

This. I did not think about it first, but "Loyalty Bombing" other civs sounds unique and fun. Capital + Amani and you might have something there. I am already re-evaluating the civ, somewhat.

 

[ChocolateShake]

They do share the Mali ability of their unique protecting traders.

Yup that'll be quite nice, I think Phoenicia overall will be a lot of fun, lots of subtleties and they'll be extremely powerful on the seas.

 

[Jewman]

My first thought was: wow they look amazing, super thematic and I am so glad to have Dido back.
Second thought was: they don't actually look all that good tho, especially if you still need shipbuilding to get these settlers out. Their bonuses aren't really that exciting compared to all the other civs revealed.

Then my third thought:
I remembered fourthings:
1. cheaper settlers are good
2. cheaper districts that generate gold are also good
3. harbors will be stronger with change to commerce city-state bonuses
4. the bulk of your expansion should actually occur POST building your government plaza building that gives settler prod bonus + free worker. Which also gives you 2 trade routes if you're Dido ( gov district + building) + all the cothons you will be building will also be building lighthouses + sea trade will be more beneficial in GS.

So in summary: these bonuses may seem a litttttttle underwhelming at first glance but i think they will add up to a strong civ.

 

[Lord Lakely]

The Expansion potential for this Civ is through the roof. Cheaper settlers from a cheaper harbour? Combined with the Ancestrall Hall's discount and Colonization? 4 Free trade routes, basically? Yikes. That's some insane city spamming. And then no loyalty penalties for Coastal cities, jesus.

Moving your Capital is a nice flavour ability. Without it, the Civ wouldn't really feel like Phoenicia for me. Love the Purple colour.

Otherwise, I'm fairly underwhelmed. Phoenicia is good at REX'ing and trade, but that's sort of it. The overall design doesn't speak to me, I think it's a bit safe for a new Civ, though i will almost certainly love playing as them.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

Okay, so if you move your capital to a new continent, all future coastal cities on that continent will be 100% loyal, correct? Am I reading this right? This actually improves the usefulness of moving your capital. Of course the cities on your old continent could be hurting. But it gives them flexibility if you happen to start on a continent split and one is larger than the other.

All cities on the same continent as the capital are 100% loyal, regardless of being landlocked or coastal. However, the capital can only be moved to a city with a cothon in it via running a project.

Edit: Just coastal cities for the 100% loyalty, whoops...but no requirement of a cothon to get that loyalty.

 

[bite]

I have updated the Features Thread with all the Phoenicia information

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Geez, how cheap will settlers be with Cothon+ancestral hall+card?

 

[CivLuvah]

Besides Canada, for me this is the least-impressive civ I have seen so far from all the new civs. Granted I love the design of the cothon, and I like its abilities, but I was hoping for more bonuses with regards to maritime trade. I remember there's another new civ that has maritime trade abilities but I can't quite put my finger on it. Can someone remind me?

The ability to relocate your capital is something I was hoping they'd give every civ.

Second that. Any... modders out there?

During the last livestream, the devs said in Twitch chat that we should check back next week for something very interesting (or something along those lines), regarding the music. My theory is that they put the Ottoman theme in this video to not reveal whatever it is that's "interesting"...

Yeah, I remember that. Where should we look out for this? Twitter? YouTube? Twitch?

 

[Xandinho]

I found the look of Dido a little too simple, it just seems like a rework of Gorgo's drawing.

 

[ferretbacon]

Meh, I find them underwhelming. But I did guess Dido's LUA name and that the civ would play with loyalty mechanics.

If anyone had gotten unique luxuries (like V's Indonesia), I'd have wanted it to be Phoenicia.

Also, they were wrong about the number of unique units. As we can see, Phoenicia does indeed have one.

 

[Onii-chan]

The video showed that happening, Carthage settled next to an Ottoman city and moved their capital to the new city, Ottoman city loyalty flipped. The new city needed a Cothon though.

Yeah I saw that they did it, was just curious if it'll turn out to be a consistent and reliable strategy or just a fun gimmick that's merely situational and not that practically beneficial compared to just attacking normally

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There's much more of a focus on keeping cities loyal than I though and not as much on trade, but looks interesting, especially changing your capital as a strategy.
I still wished that the Cothon would have been an inland harbor that you could move your ships into, like a coastal city center, but maybe it would have been to hard to implement.

 

[iammaxhailme]

The capital thing sems to be way too niche to use much, tbh. Not one of my favorite reveals, for sure.

 

[acluewithout]

How are people underwhelmed?

Cities on the same continent as your capital have 100% loyalty.

Dido can move her capital.

So, Dido can forward settle the entire game and on different continents.

This is a really powerful Mechanic. I mean, her settlers get extra movement too? You could forward settle as part of a military invasion. Chop out at Harbour or Reyna it (remember, it’s half price). Move your Cap. Now you have the perfect base of operations and it won’t loyalty flip. Nor will any coastal cities you capture. Plus - all your Naval units heal instantly.

This is such an interesting Mechanic.

On top of that, Dido can also just nail the OCC if you want to go that route, given she gets four trade routes from her GP and can pump out districts in that city. You know - including Neighbourhoods.

And half price Harbour district is still a half price Harbour district.

Really interesting design. Really, really interesting.

I'm disappointed there's no bonus to maritime trade (beyond the small bireme buff), the very foundation of Phoenician civilisation. I also don't see the point of moving ones capital. They should have just made Dido's capital Carthage and made her ability the Colonies, with the generic civ getting trade route bonuses.

The bireme looks good though, and then Cothon is a beautiful-looking district. Dido herself has good leader art too.

There is - extra trade routes. Extra trade routes are awesome. And it looks like she can stop Sea routes being pillaged too.

It’s like Bizarro ancient era England. You know. Because of the Harbour. And trade routes.

 

[Sagax]

The real intent behind moving Phoenicia’s capital:

So that Domination players can say “Carthago delenda est” and have to wipe out the Phoenicia AI entirely. It’s....kinda ironic.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Having said that, Phoenicia is probably the strongest of the new Civs. And it's not even close.