Piracy at Poor Country

[aneeshm]

You are getting very defensive, so you know you are wrong.

I'd request you try not to be a condescending psychoanalyst .

The blame is EQUALLY shared, one is not less then the other it is 50/50 and in that you are trying to JUSTIFY your actions and by saying it "I can't get it here yet so, but I can buy an ILLEGAL early PIRATED copy ... instead if waiting for a LEGAL copy and I'm not as much to blame because I didn't make it." Please, there is your self justification in your actions, get mad and argue all you want it stealing any way you slice it.

And again the condescending psychoanalysis . Can't you debate on the merits of the argument instead of making assertions ? And quit capitalising emotive words - you should not need to resort to such tactics if your argument stands on its own merits .

Why are you trying to insinuate that I am personally involved ? Why are you implying that I am pirating or buying pirated things ? Why are you , in short , accusing me of being a thief ?

I myself buy originals , but I am capable of sympathising with those in a position where there are no originals to buy , having , in the past , been in that position myself !

Your insinuations constitute a personal attack , which , in my eyes , considerably lessens the value of your arguments .

And as far as not shipping to your country there are many place that will ship WORLDWIDE, you are on earth right? Even eBay.

You have absolutely NO idea of the crappy infrastructure those of us in the third world have to deal with , do you ? Reliable shipping systems are not in place in countries like India or Indonesia , specially if you live in a small place like Indore .

I'll ask you one question ... answer or not.

Would you go out and pay US$49.95 for an LEGAL copy of Civ IV in your country when it was sold there?

If you answer YES then wait for a legal copy and stop feeding the pirates, be honest.
If you answer NO then your part of the problem and no better than the pirates.

Of course I would pay ( and FYI , yes , I have got an original copy of Civ IV ) .


As I told you , I consider piracy acceptable if and only if there is no legal channel of obtaining a game , and no forseeable chance of any legal channel opening in the future ( by future I mean the effective future - about three to four years ( which , in the gaming world , is functionally a generation ) ) , AND if you buy the game in the original when it comes out ( which may , and usually does , take years ) .




I've realised that there is no point really debating this , because there is no way somebody like you , who have never seem the realities of the places people like us live in , can understand the functional problems we have to face in trying to obtain original games . Even those of us who can afford it , like me , for instance , have to resort to piracy when there is no other option left ( but then you should , like me , buy the original when it comes out ) . But if you want to contiune making posts which display your ( excusable ) ignorance of the situation of the ground , then I am more than willing .

 

[Gladi]

Man your fast I thought the Internet was much bigger than a few minutes look see. Frankly I don't care what you believe, point is illegal is illegal. Google that.

So? Nobody is arguing legality. I am not righteous champion of poor down-trodden masses when I pirate the game. I never said that. But you are the one going around saying that I am heartless, hating, thieving swine when I pirate the game.

 

[mdwh]

(and pirated SW is stealing)

Steal·ing
n.
1. The act of taking feloniously the personal property of another without his consent and knowledge; theft; larceny.
2. That which is stolen; stolen property; -- chiefly used in the plural.

theft (thĕft)
n.
1. The act or an instance of stealing; larceny.
2. Obsolete. Something stolen.

lar·ce·ny (lär'sə-n&#275
n., pl. -nies.
The unlawful taking and removing of another's personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the owner; theft.

I guess it isn't stealing after all.

That doesn't make it legal - but why are people so obsessed with saying one crime equals another different crime?

 

[superisis]

Since I only play 1-3 games a year, I buy my copies... but most of my friends just download them off the net.

 

[Leatherneck]

Why are you trying to insinuate that I am personally involved ? Why are you implying that I am pirating or buying pirated things ? Why are you , in short , accusing me of being a thief ?

I myself buy originals , but I am capable of sympathising with those in a position where there are no originals to buy , having , in the past , been in that position myself !

You said ...

I cannot order it from another country - the don't ship it there . That's the damn point - there is no legal way to obtain it , even if you can afford ten times the retail price !

That would imply you can't get a legal copy and can only get illegal copies. Which is it?

You have absolutely NO idea of the crappy infrastructure those of us in the third world have to deal with , do you ? Reliable shipping systems are not in place in countries like India or Indonesia , specially if you live in a small place like Indore .

Really? You know all the places I've been, all the places I've lived? Interesting.
I better nation is brought about by the people raising up against the status and demanding a better way of life. If the status is what it is then who is to blame?

Of course I would pay ( and FYI , yes , I have got an original copy of Civ IV ) .

Bullcrap.

As I told you , I consider piracy acceptable if and only if there is no legal channel of obtaining a game , and no forseeable chance of any legal channel opening in the future ( by future I mean the effective future - about three to four years ( which , in the gaming world , is functionally a generation ) ) , AND if you buy the game in the original when it comes out ( which may , and usually does , take years ) .

Bullcrap again.

I've realised that there is no point really debating this , because there is no way somebody like you , who have never seem the realities of the places people like us live in , can understand the functional problems we have to face in trying to obtain original games . Even those of us who can afford it , like me , for instance , have to resort to piracy when there is no other option left ( but then you should , like me , buy the original when it comes out ) . But if you want to contiune making posts which display your ( excusable ) ignorance of the situation of the ground , then I am more than willing .

So that makes it ok? Again you are trying to justify it. It's a game, it not require to survive, it's not food or medicine, it's a silly little game. I've been to the 3rd world and many "depressed" countries FYI. And if you see the problem in your system then do something about it. Quit wasting you time argueing on internet forums and get out there and become the one that made your country a better place for your people. If you are not part of the solution your part of the problem.
Have a great day.

 

[Gladi]

So that makes it ok? Again you are trying to justify it. It's a game, it not require to survive, it's not food or medicine, it's a silly little game. I've been to the 3rd world and many "depressed" countries FYI. And if you see the problem in your system then do something about it. Quit wasting you time argueing on internet forums and get out there and become the one that made your country a better place for your people. If you are not part of the solution your part of the problem.
Have a great day.

And how is it not okay? WHo is hurt? Where is the victim?

 

[Gladi]

Edit: weird it saidto me I did not post...? Double post

 

[Leatherneck]

Steal·ing
n.
1. The act of taking feloniously the personal property of another without his consent and knowledge; theft; larceny.
2. That which is stolen; stolen property; -- chiefly used in the plural.

theft (thĕft)
n.
1. The act or an instance of stealing; larceny.
2. Obsolete. Something stolen.

lar·ce·ny (lär'sə-n&#275
n., pl. -nies.
The unlawful taking and removing of another's personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the owner; theft.

I guess it isn't stealing after all.

That doesn't make it legal - but why are people so obsessed with saying one crime equals another different crime?

I guess it is after all, you posted it and both are larecny.

I can't speak for India as the case my be, Selling stolen property and receiving stole property are the same class crime in the eye of the law and thus one does equal the other. If it was piracy and say murder then it's apples and oranges and one does not equal the other.

 

[Leatherneck]

And how is it not okay? WHo is hurt? Where is the victim?

The victim is all the people pony up $50 for the real deal. What if everyone bought a illegal copy of the game how long do you think they'd keep making new games. So in that case if you play you'd be hurt and currently all of us legal copy buying people are hurt in addition to the stock holder of the company as they see lower returns. And that's how it's not ok ...like that has to be explained.

Warlords is coming out soon, you going to run down to your local store and steal one? If not why not .. whos going to be hurt, wheres the victim, hows it not ok?

 

[Gladi]

The victim is all the people pony up $50 for the real deal. What if everyone bought a illegal copy of the game how long do you think they'd keep making new games. So in that case if you play you'd be hurt and currently all of us legal copy buying people are hurt in addition to the stock holder of the company as they see lower returns. And that's how it's not ok ...like that has to be explained.

Warlords is coming out soon, you going to run down to your local store and steal one? If not why not .. whos going to be hurt, wheres the victim, hows it not ok?

The local shop will miss a product it already payd for- so they will be hurt.

And if you don't want to pay 50$ (if only games were so cheap here) pirate it. Maybe the industry will die, that is a solution too. But first would you be so kind and provide proof of how piracy contributes to price, at last?

 

[El_Machinae]

And how is it not okay? WHo is hurt? Where is the victim?

You.

Take the 10 hours a week you'll spend on the game, and study or work instead!

Truely, instead of stealing the game, how about make yourself into a person who can afford to buy the game? That way, everyone wins. You get a higher quality of life, your local community gets a valuable employee, and the company gets a customer.

 

[Gladi]

You.

Take the 10 hours a week you'll spend on the game, and study or work instead!

Truely, instead of stealing the game, how about make yourself into a person who can afford to buy the game? That way, everyone wins. You get a higher quality of life, your local community gets a valuable employee, and the company gets a customer.

Sigh. I am studying, S-t-u-d-e-n-t. In few years I will end. F-e-w y-e-a-r-s. I will enter workforce, hopefully I will get job. Money. B-u-c-k-s. G-r-e-e-n-s
Yes I am rude, but I am getting tired of repeating this ad nauseum. Or you can say I am already sick of it.

 

[El_Machinae]

Study more. Or work now.

Why should you profit from the efforts of others without compensating them? Especially when they performed these efforts with an expectation of compensation?

 

[Gladi]

Study more. Or work now.

Why should you profit from the efforts of others without compensating them? Especially when they performed these efforts with an expectation of compensation?

Yes it is not "good". But how are you sure I will never compensate them? Once I get working? SO they expectations were wrong, I am sorry. Now what?

(and I was told in no uncertain terms that I have "job" to finish with uni diploma and if I want to flip burgers in my spare time I can pack my things.)

 

[Leatherneck]

Sigh. I am studying, S-t-u-d-e-n-t. In few years I will end. F-e-w y-e-a-r-s. I will enter workforce, hopefully I will get job. Money. B-u-c-k-s. G-r-e-e-n-s
Yes I am rude, but I am getting tired of repeating this ad nauseum. Or you can say I am already sick of it.

Ok you enter the workforce and you invent or make something and you want sell it to the public in hopes of making more money, bucks, greenbacks, doe, quid, jack etc etc. to have a better life, to feed your family, to provide them with medical, to save for retirement, maybe to give to the poor.
And you market it to sell, and it's GREAT. but you're out shopping and you see 100's, 1000's , 1,000,000's of your product, invention being sold ... BUT WAIT there all bootlegs, rip offs, pirated copies. And you see those bucks disappear before you eyes, because you are not making a one cent off of those and all of your work was for in a way, free and someone else is profiting off your labor and you get nothing but your name in the credits.

But it doesn't matter because you are ok with it, you don't mind loosing all that money because pirating doesn't cost the creator anything. Right?

 

[Gladi]

Ok you enter the workforce and you invent or make something and you want sell it to the public in hopes of making more money, bucks, greenbacks, doe, quid, jack etc etc. to have a better life, to feed your family, to provide them with medical, to save for retirement, maybe to give to the poor.
And you market it to sell, and it's GREAT. but you're out shopping and you see 100's, 1000's , 1,000,000's of your product, invention being sold ... BUT WAIT there all bootlegs, rip offs, pirated copies. And you see those bucks disappear before you eyes, because you are not making a one cent off of those and all of your work was for in a way, free and someone else is profiting off your labor and you get nothing but your name in the credits.

But it doesn't matter because you are ok with it, you don't mind loosing all that money because pirating doesn't cost the creator anything. Right?

Right . 10char

 

[aneeshm]

You said ...

That would imply you can't get a legal copy and can only get illegal copies. Which is it?

Correct . There are places in the world where only illegal copies are available .

Really? You know all the places I've been, all the places I've lived? Interesting.
I better nation is brought about by the people raising up against the status and demanding a better way of life. If the status is what it is then who is to blame?

Nice bit of wishful thinking there . People rising up against the status takes time , you know , in democratic countries like India and Indonesia . You have to deal with systemic corruption on a nationwide scale to get anything done .

Bullcrap.

Really ? Are you accusing me of pirating Civ IV ? For the love of god - good money had been forked over the buy the special edition which I own - and you call that bullcrap ? Bullcrap yourself .

Bullcrap again.

Nice to see you displaying your magnificent debating skills .

So that makes it ok? Again you are trying to justify it. It's a game, it not require to survive, it's not food or medicine, it's a silly little game. I've been to the 3rd world and many "depressed" countries FYI. And if you see the problem in your system then do something about it. Quit wasting you time argueing on internet forums and get out there and become the one that made your country a better place for your people. If you are not part of the solution your part of the problem.
Have a great day.

You haven't got it still - I've never tried to justify piracy . We're only nitpicking over assigning percentages of the blame . As I said before , my stance is that both - the dealer and the person who buys the game - are to blame , but in assigning the blame , you have to take circumstances into account , which force me to conclude that more of the blame falls on the dealer and less on the purchaser . Both , however , are acting in an unjustifiable manner . Got your answer ?

And by the way - there is no need for you to tell me what to do - no need to play the condescending elder . That sort of behaviour is not appreciated .

 

[Paradigne]

Steal·ing
n.
1. The act of taking feloniously the personal property of another without his consent and knowledge; theft; larceny.
2. That which is stolen; stolen property; -- chiefly used in the plural.

theft (thĕft)
n.
1. The act or an instance of stealing; larceny.
2. Obsolete. Something stolen.

lar·ce·ny (lär'sə-n&#275
n., pl. -nies.
The unlawful taking and removing of another's personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the owner; theft.

I guess it isn't stealing after all.

That doesn't make it legal - but why are people so obsessed with saying one crime equals another different crime?

Curious why you didn't take it one step farther??

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=software%20theft

Software theft was estimated for 1994 to have cost $15 billion
in worldwide lost revenues to software publishers. It is a
serious offence under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act
1988, which states that "The owner of the copyright has the
exclusive right to copy the work.".

It is estimated that European software houses alone lose $6
billion per year through the unlawful copying and distribution
of software, with much of this loss being through business
users rather than "basement hackers". One Italian pirating
operation employed over 100 staff and had a turnover of $10m.

It is illegal to: 1. Copy or distribute software or its
documentation without the permission or licence of the
copyright owner. 2. Run purchased software on two or more
computers simultaneously unless the licence specifically
allows it. 3. Knowingly or unknowingly allow, encourage or
pressure employees to make or use illegal copies sources
within the organisation. 4. Infringe laws against
unauthorised software copying because a superior, colleague or
friend compels or requests it. 5. Loan software in order that
a copy be made of it.

 

[Leatherneck]

And by the way - there is no need for you to tell me what to do - no need to play the condescending elder . That sort of behaviour is not appreciated .

You're right, enjoy you oppressed life (or not) and do nothing about it (or do). I really don't care what your choice might be. Forbid you should listen to anyone that been around longer than you, what could they possibly know.

Have a great day ... or don't. Who cares?

 

[Gladi]

Curious why you didn't take it one step farther??

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=software%20theft

Software theft was estimated for 1994 to have cost $15 billion
in worldwide lost revenues to software publishers. It is a
serious offence under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act
1988, which states that "The owner of the copyright has the
exclusive right to copy the work.".

It is estimated that European software houses alone lose $6
billion per year through the unlawful copying and distribution
of software, with much of this loss being through business
users rather than "basement hackers". One Italian pirating
operation employed over 100 staff and had a turnover of $10m.

It is illegal to: 1. Copy or distribute software or its
documentation without the permission or licence of the
copyright owner. 2. Run purchased software on two or more
computers simultaneously unless the licence specifically
allows it. 3. Knowingly or unknowingly allow, encourage or
pressure employees to make or use illegal copies sources
within the organisation. 4. Infringe laws against
unauthorised software copying because a superior, colleague or
friend compels or requests it. 5. Loan software in order that
a copy be made of it.

Yawn. And the "loss" is pure speculation. It jsut counts value of pirated software. Not actual loss of sales due to piracy. AFAIK, though if you could find info proving me wrong do so please .

Bye Leatherneck and have many a bright day.