Plan of action needed - help

[tomasjj]

Ok, need some advice here.
Deity level.
I am purple, Iroquois.
Celts are the light green powerhouse.
Just had my golden age and built some cavs, markets/unis.

Techwise I am researching astronomy now.
AI hasn't got infantry yet, but I don't know for how long.

So, what now?

Alternatives:
- Do I try to ally some of the others against the runaway Celts? I doubt we will be strong enough, but we do have a decent choke on the west coast of the main Celt island.

- Do I start taking out the other Civs one by one? This seems a no-no, as the Celts will then just build up and escape into space before I get to move over there after taking the other civs out.

Anyone?

 

[vmxa]

Chances are you cannot do much without Mag. It is hard to tell, but if you have ocean tiles, you cannot risk sending boats full of troops. It is also hard to use caravels at this point as they cannot hold a 3 man army and it will take a bunch of ships.

It sounds like you are a bit late to try to get on the contient with the most civs. That would be my main idea, but time is working against you. Do any of the civs lack horses and hence calvs?

Using allies Vs the celts will be problematic as you probably have nothing to get them to go for it. If you did, not much good can be expected. The AI is crap at invading and the Celts are too strong for them.

It could get even uglier if the Celts manage to get a hold on their land. You can try to be opportunistic and join an on going war.

I would want to have a number of defensive armies to invade anyone at this level as they will send a ton of units. You could drop some pillaging armies on the celts, until they get flight. Then it is going to be very ugly.

After your GA ends, consider no research to a) steal b) build nothing but bombardment units and attackers. Once you get Nat, go to mobilization and launch an attack.

 

[tomasjj]

Chances are you cannot do much without Mag. It is hard to tell, but if you have ocean tiles, you cannot risk sending boats full of troops. It is also hard to use caravels at this point as they cannot hold a 3 man army and it will take a bunch of ships.

It sounds like you are a bit late to try to get on the contient with the most civs. That would be my main idea, but time is working against you. Do any of the civs lack horses and hence calvs?

Using allies Vs the celts will be problematic as you probably have nothing to get them to go for it. If you did, not much good can be expected. The AI is crap at invading and the Celts are too strong for them.

It could get even uglier if the Celts manage to get a hold on their land. You can try to be opportunistic and join an on going war.

I would want to have a number of defensive armies to invade anyone at this level as they will send a ton of units. You could drop some pillaging armies on the celts, until they get flight. Then it is going to be very ugly.

After your GA ends, consider no research to a) steal b) build nothing but bombardment units and attackers. Once you get Nat, go to mobilization and launch an attack.

Thanks a lot for that!

Yeah, I am probably a bit late in invading the other continent. I just wanted cavs first, and just got them. 3 turns ago. No galleons yet, and I think there are some ocean tiles to be crossed if I want to go to the continent with most civs. I was thinking Spain, who are light blue, could be the first target.
English only have knights and Spanish only have Crusaders. Chinese have rifles and Korea and Celts have Cavs.

That means Spanish lacks saltpeter. They could be a good victim, but it will take some time before I get galleons.

The point about joining an ongoing war is good. Currently, most civs are in fact at war with the celts, me included.

 

[Obormot]

Your main problem is that you have fallen behind in tech. On sid it is inevitable, but on deity you should be able to keep up with the AI.

But the game still should be winnable, i would advise researching to rails/factories/artillery as soon as you can and then kill the celts, then everybody else. You'll have to do everything on your own though, the civs from the other continent won't help you because they cannot fight overseas.

 

[tomasjj]

Thanks Obormot.
I can't hurt them now with Cavs, just give them some raids on the coast.
So the real attack will have to wait, just like you suggest.
I need Arty's.
Then they will have infantry. That calls for a resource depletion plan too.

Darn, I will get off the island faster next time.

 

[vmxa]

One thing that may be doable, BEFORE flight, is to drop off a couple of armies to pillage. Send them as 2 man armies and send the extra units to add after the land.

If they have bombers, forget it, they will chew them up.

 

[tomasjj]

A little update:
I tried an attack with Cavs and cannons, limited success. Managed to take 2 small towns on the coast and one on an island for peace. They were too strong, so there was nothing to be done.

Then I tried Obormot's plan. Went to replacable parts and filled some galleons with inf and arty. About 10 of them, landed on a mountain. The AI had a phat welcoming party there, and stacks of 20 inf just kept coming, luckily they only had 3-4 bombers. Only thing that came out of it were a couple of small towns to me and two leaders.
Surprisingly, when I played this far, the power balance on the western continent shifted. England/Spain and the Mongols were all taken out by the Chinese and Korea. China is now the powerhouse.

Alternatively, I could had taken the Mongol island (yellow) or tried to force myself on the continent with most civs. But I dont think it will have mattered. Too much procrastination on my part to win this one.

 

[vmxa]

Yeah, 10 will not get it done. They will probably soon be attacked by 40 or more units and even if they survive that turn, will be damaged.

You cannot land on a mountain as you must found a town. A hill is best and then rush a wall and then a barracks. If you can arrange to prevent them from reaching you before the two are up, you have chance.

I do not bring arties, unless I have nothing else that can come on that trip. Bombarment units cannot defend and that is a big problem, when facing lots of attackers.

So if you brought 10 inf and 10 aries, but had instead brought 19 inf and a settler, you fare much better. If they can handle it, is a function of how much they can hit you with in one turn.

The huge difference is that the wall give +25% and the barracks means all fortified units that survive are FULLY healed for the next round.

What happens with 10 and 10, well you probably saw it. Attackers kill a few, damage all. Now you have say 8 defends and most damaged, if not all. The arties do at best 7 hits per round.

Soon you have more losses and the remainders have to come up to fight time after time. Now if you had no arties, you loss the 1 ping, but you have almost twice as many defenders to share the load.

I just used 1 musket, 3 Sip armies and 22 Sips in a forted hill town. I had a wall and then a barracks. I had a mountian in all directions, so no one turn attacks. They all had to stop twice after I busted the roads on the only other mountian outside my border (6 tiles).

Three civs were on the landmass (AW) and they never managed to do much damage to me. I had enough Sips to kill many of the attackers and the armies handled the rest. Soon I had a second shipment and some cannons and more armies and some muskets.

Eventually I blunted all the attackers and now I am razing cities with 8 armies of Sips and I will not found another town tile I have cleared a fair amount of room. One civ had rifles, all had calvs.

You cannot always get such a great setup, where they are not able to get at you all at once. In fact, many of their troops had to wait, till the other civ got removed to move up.

If they have only a few bombers, you could pillage with a calv army and an infantry army to cover. You may be able to stay out of range much of the time. Alternatively a bunch of explores under armies could do a lot of damage.

 

[tomasjj]

Actually looking after, I had 12 galleons.
That should be 48 units.
I reckon about 20++ infs, 15-20 arty, 6 cavs and a settler.
I landed on a mountain next to an enemy town, a town I took the next turn.
Then I rushed walls and racs, just like you said.

They must have pounded me with about 80-100 units, but they couldn't take me out as the town was also on a hill. Strange thing, the instant when I got a leader they stopped the attacks for that turn. I founded infantry armies with the 2 leaders I got, and that took the blunt of the attack as I shelled the oncoming troops with arty inbetween attacks. The city was surrounded by hills and mountains, except one square. Here they kept sending cavs. I did counter with some cavs to take out some of their wonded when possible, but all in all, it was a lost cause.

I am still alive, but I don't think there is much to do now, at least not about China who is defo running away. The Celts, well maybe I can manage to take a couple or more towns, but he has metropolises all over and with deity bonuses that means too many enemy units for just infantry and arty.

So, you were saying that it was better to found my own town? Sure there is flip risks, but they will be there anyway since we are far from home and the enemy has more culture.

 

[vmxa]

Well it is usually going to cost you to capture a town and then you do have a flip risk. I have never had a beachhead flip and I have done scores of them at Sid.

First you will have many units in the town for quite awhile. Second you will then break out and raze the places close to you.

I don't really care about the pure numbers, it is the concept that matters. Unless you have overwhelming numbers, I want all troops, no bombardment.

I use 10 as that is what what you mentioned. If you have 20 inf and 16 cannons, I would rather have 28 inf and 8 calvs or even 36 inf.

The calvs can start to pick off stragglers after things slow down or can be made into an army. I want to make inf armies asap. If you lost 6 units taking that town, that could be the difference between survivial and being dead.

I tend to drop a few ships in the town and use one to seed the rush for each of the two structures. Send the rest back for refilling. 36 units of mostly infantry on a hill with a wall and a barracks, should hold.

By the time things are calm, you should have many leaders and hence armies. Inf armies attack wiht the same 12 attack as inf, they just do not have the 4 attacks and moves.

By the time you are ready to break out, you could have several calv armies in place anyway. Now you start to pillage and raze.

Trying to take the town for a beachhead can be a real risk. What if it has 16 units and they can restock before you can kill them all? Not going to do it that way, unless I have no choice.

That is what I just hit. I killed hundreds of units, before I razed the closest one. It had 17 units, all rifles. The next one over I failed on my first try as it had 16 and the rng was not kind. Well actually the difference was in the first one I could return some damaged armies back to heal as the town was ony one tile off my land. The second was three tile and two were not mine and no road.

Now I have to worry that it will be as full as before. I do not really know how many as I killed 16, but the place did not fall.