Plans for V28

[Sgtslick]

Thats quite a list Thunderbrd! 'Round Stuns' that sounds really cool, so like the equivalent of a 'bash' in dota or wc3? If you've ever played those games hehe

 

[Thunderbrd]

Round Stuns would be an alternative Critical effect that's still available even if the Crit option is off. Basically, it would be an ability that has a very small random chance every round your unit injures its opponent of stunning the opponent unit (making it incapable of attacking back the next # of combat rounds = to the strength of the stun which would usually be 1).

Largely the result of units that fight with highly specialized skills like martial arts, or perhaps even explosives. It's also a setup for Electrical damage which would naturally have this effect potential.

This wouldn't be all that different in effect to First Strikes as First Strike rounds carry out the same way (only the first striker can actually make the attack during first strike rounds) but while FS rounds take place at the beginning of battle only, Round Stuns would take place as a result of a lucky attack DURING battle. There'd be some ways to resist the effect as well.

Working it into odds will be... perhaps impossible actually. Well, nothing's impossible where odds calculations are concerned but for ME, who lacks a Master's Degree in math, I'd be hard pressed to work that out. But that IS a task on the second list that I didn't show... go into hardcore depth with odds so that I can make sure its as accurate as it can possibly be. So I WILL be trying to get all factors from the combat mod into the odds properly. Not a light weight task, that's for sure.

 

[LumenAngel]

Atompunk is next in line. I am not sure when since there are lots to do for them. Biopunk and Cyberpunk will be after the Transhuman and Galactic stuff in is in place since those are related to those eras. We don't plan on a Nanopunk or Teslapunk. Stonpunk is already with the Megafauna Domestication and there certainly won't be an elfpunk unless someone makes a modmod for it.

Cyberpunk novels often take place in a nearer future than atompun novels...
In fact, atompunk is still "alive" while cyberpunk is more and more some "nowpunk".

And for me, stonepunk is really different from Megafauna. Make Neanderthal not obsoloete will be something more like a stonepunk. Stonepunk would be with Stonesword, Stone factory, Marble Palace, Stone tank... The only part of Megafauna "Stonepunk" is Mammouth trainer. Megafauna in stonepunk is more ralted with sabretooth tiger and dinosaur.
(i was sure there was a Nanopunk tech, my bad...)

 

[crazyewok]

Cyberpunk novels often take place in a nearer future than atompun novels...
In fact, atompunk is still "alive" while cyberpunk is more and more some "nowpunk".

And for me, stonepunk is really different from Megafauna. Make Neanderthal not obsoloete will be something more like a stonepunk. Stonepunk would be with Stonesword, Stone factory, Marble Palace, Stone tank... The only part of Megafauna "Stonepunk" is Mammouth trainer. Megafauna in stonepunk is more ralted with sabretooth tiger and dinosaur.
(i was sure there was a Nanopunk tech, my bad...)

I take it there will be a option to turn these off as I like my history to be realistic I dont mint alt time lines and stuff for future as well its the future but I dont particaly want to play stonepunk and other fanasty stuff.

 

[Nimek]

Because DH mention about some changes in resources during v28 cycle i post link to my idea

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=477963

Maybe some of this ideas someone will want to implement

Good luck

 

[Faustmouse]

I just saw AstralPhasers Let's play videos and I wonder if you could fix Terrain Damage and realistic Culture Spread in the V28 cycle? Both are for sure very cool options, but you can't really use them right now...

 

[Koshling]

I just saw AstralPhasers Let's play videos and I wonder if you could fix Terrain Damage and realistic Culture Spread in the V28 cycle? Both are for sure very cool options, but you can't really use them right now...

There have been a number of fixes for terrain damage in V27, and as it happens I'm working on another one as I write this, so terrain damage should already be much better in V27 than it was in V26.

I personally haven't really had any issues with realistic culture spread going wrong in my games (apart from when it announces a 'spread' that doesn't actually do anything, which I think should change to guarantee you always get the 'easiest' single tile to spread to at a minimum on each culture level change). If you (or anyone) knows of other things that are wrong with realistic spread then we need save games from the turn before the expansion that goes wrong so we can debug them. Given such save games I am very willing to work on this...

 

[Faustmouse]

I am just refering to AStralPhasers Episode 3 I think, where he isn't using V26 but the SVN. I will try it on my one once V27 is out. Great to hear there are some improvements!

And about the realistic culture spread, I am just wonderin that there are so few tiles expanding on each culture level. Maybe you just get used to it, or maybe I just don't like it I will turn it off at first.

 

[Koshling]

I am just refering to AStralPhasers Episode 3 I think, where he isn't using V26 but the SVN. I will try it on my one once V27 is out. Great to hear there are some improvements!

And about the realistic culture spread, I am just wonderin that there are so few tiles expanding on each culture level. Maybe you just get used to it, or maybe I just don't like it I will turn it off at first.

With realistic spread turned on you get more spread events (they occur more frequently) but they are smaller, and some of them don't actually spread at all (which I think is an issue, albeit one mostly of expectations).

 

[strategyonly]

Because DH mention about some changes in resources during v28 cycle i post link to my idea

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=477963

Maybe some of this ideas someone will want to implement

Good luck

Why don't you do like you did for the RAAT modmod, for this, modmod's are a great place to start NEW stuff, thats how i got started with RoM in the beginning, just adding stuff "I" wanted, in modular format(s).

Infact "we" encourage EVERYONE to make the changes THEY would rather see, and make it a modular format modmod, never know, like CivPlayer8 (Civics) and DoomDoom (LH's/Flags/Btn's), etc it got into C2C.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There have been a number of fixes for terrain damage in V27, and as it happens I'm working on another one as I write this, so terrain damage should already be much better in V27 than it was in V26.

I personally haven't really had any issues with realistic culture spread going wrong in my games (apart from when it announces a 'spread' that doesn't actually do anything, which I think should change to guarantee you always get the 'easiest' single tile to spread to at a minimum on each culture level change). If you (or anyone) knows of other things that are wrong with realistic spread then we need save games from the turn before the expansion that goes wrong so we can debug them. Given such save games I am very willing to work on this...

I posted a list of problems with Realistic Cultural Spread and how we could fix in the discussion thread them but was ignored. Basically RCS is broken because

1. It does not play nice with some BUG options.
2. It is "realistic" in all eras except the prehistoric
3. It is not realistic like Civ 5 but unrealistic like Civ 4
4. It is more limited in extent than the default.

1) Problem: If you have the BUG options on for pending and actual expand on RCS gives false messages because of point 3. Solution: If you only want to fix the "play nice with BUG" problem then it can be fixed by disabling those BUG options when RCS is on. Alternately we could disable the messaging from the BUG code if RCS is on and have RCS send the message instead.

2) Problem: Cultural expansion in the prehistoric is more about getting resources than land you wont be able to work until the ancient because you don't have the population. I gave up on using RCS because of the number of times I haven't been able to get that stone/obsidian resource essential in the prehistoric era because RCS insists on giving me useless empty plots suitable for farms which I neither have the population or technology to use. Solution: - cant supply one but I would suggest that the spread algorithm be different pre-agriculture or sedentary lifestyle.

3) Problem: Cultural expansion should be more like a property and checked every turn not based on arbitrary cultural levels of the city.

4) Problem: RCS is limited to 3 tiers/plots from the city. This is much less that the 7 in the "normal" system and has a tendency to leave one plot gaps in your territory.

Because DH mention about some changes in resources during v28 cycle i post link to my idea

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=477963

Maybe some of this ideas someone will want to implement

Good luck

I am looking at your suggestions Nimek but I am also looking for solutions to many of the problems

• Some resources still have their default and and have not been integrated to the resource-manufactured resource methods we have. This contributes to the excess problem
• When can resources be traded between cities realistically. Currently Pawpaw grown in the tropics is available as fresh fruit in the arctic regions with the most primitive trade network
• resources that are not in the work area of a city only provide the raw material which is next to useless in C2C. I want to see if we can have economic improvements that provide the processed resource instead. this will mean that you and the AI will then need to decide if a fort or economic improvement is what is required there.

Why don't you do like you did for the RAAT modmod, for this, modmod's are a great place to start NEW stuff, thats how i got started with RoM in the beginning, just adding stuff "I" wanted, in modular format(s).

Can't be done because Hydro has forceoverwrite tag on buildings so nothing modular can be done. I was looking into that in the last few days and the only way I can do it is to create anew mod where I put all Hydro's buildings into core and remove the force over writes.

 

[JosEPh_II]

On RCS I agree 100% with DH. I'm trying to use it in a test game and it's soo very arbitrary in where it goes. And God help you if your Capital city has more than 2 hills. I accepted the initial start placement for my "Band" and out of the 9 initial tiles 3 were water (unusable for sometime) the city tile was on a hill and of the remaining tiles all but 2 were also hills. I had 2 other cities founded before my Capital even expanded up the river 1 tile. Which means it was at least 20+ turns past Tribalism (which I completed research on @20,500BC). By the time I got Tengrii @14,650BC I had half of a Fat X for my Capitals tiles, it looked like a fat L. My 2nd city has 1 tile attached to the lower right corner of the original 9 by this time.

And I'm building everything that you can build in the Preh era for Culture. The culture on those builds are not enough, way too weak, if RCS is used.

JosEPh

 

[Faustmouse]

Yeah, the non-expanding of the RCS is quite annoying. Maybe you should lower the culture needed to expand to each level, add more level and make the expansion smaller on each level, at least in the early stages.

Another things I wanted to ask:
1) Is the AI aware that it need to build Ex 4 Tabletmakers to be able to build the Library-Wonder? So that it decides: "ok I really want this wonder, so I need 4 more Tabletmakers... Those 4 cities would be the fastes to build them, so I will just do this!"

2) Is there a way now to get rid of rouges in your city? If not, maybe you should prevent them from entering cities for V27. If this has been discussed already I am sorry, it just bugs me that there is no way to defeat them unless you use siege weapons and this random attack BUG-Option.

 

[Koshling]

Yeah, the non-expanding of the RCS is quite annoying. Maybe you should lower the culture needed to expand to each level, add more level and make the expansion smaller on each level, at least in the early stages.

Ok, I have a concrete approach to rewriting realistic culture spread in mind, which I'll do once V27 is out. The characteristics of it will be:

• Every spread point WILL cause at least one tile spread
• Spread rate will be somewhat tech dependent. In particular it will not be possible to spread THROUGH (to will be possible) mountains until you have mountaineering, or THROUGH (but again to is possible) ocean until Navigation. Once you get those techs it will tend to release very significant culture flows in 'catch-up' areas, so these will have extra strategic benefit
• At each spread event a pool of points will be allocated proportional to the square of the spread level. Tiles adjacent to the current spread borders will be claimed in lowest cost order, until the spread pool is exhausted, with the first tile always taken regardless of whether that is over the points pool size or not
• The 'cost' of spreading to a tile will be based on:
  • Its distance from the city
  • Its terrain type (as with current RCS)
  • Whether it involves crossing a river (as with current RCS)
  • Whether it contains a revealed bonus (that will significantly reduce the cost to reflect the effort a culture would make to 'capture' a bonus it knows about). This reduction won't be so much that your stone-on-hill-across-a-river will b preferred to an immediately available grassland with no river, but won't be far behind (I'll also make the reduction percentage a tunable global define so we can fiddle easily)

The effect should be guaranteed spreading (to at least some degree), following terrain channels (the 'realistic' bit), a degree of 'reaching out' for attractive tiles (revealed bonuses), and the ability to spread further more quickly if channeled into narrow regions (i.e. - some compensation for that mountain range near you, by squishing the spread wider in the other directions)

Another things I wanted to ask:
1) Is the AI aware that it need to build Ex 4 Tabletmakers to be able to build the Library-Wonder? So that it decides: "ok I really want this wonder, so I need 4 more Tabletmakers... Those 4 cities would be the fastes to build them, so I will just do this!"

It is not. This may be worthwhile to add, but I'm not sure it's really acting as much of an impediment since, in most cases, the buildings are quite attractive anyway so it anyway builds them most everywhere. If you are aware of specific examples where the AI seems to definitely be suffering from this let me know (with save game) and I'll look into adding some smarts for it.

2) Is there a way now to get rid of rouges in your city? If not, maybe you should prevent them from entering cities for V27. If this has been discussed already I am sorry, it just bugs me that there is no way to defeat them unless you use siege weapons and this random attack BUG-Option.

No. There is a whole other thread about this somewhere, which was pretty active a couple of weeks back. I agree that it does need tackling, and should really be something of a V28 priority

 

[wolfensoul9]

or THROUGH (but again to is possible) ocean until Navigation.

Oh god, please don't do that. Making it impossible to work ocean squares in a city's radius until the freaking Renaissance era is a bad, bad idea...

If you really must have it be tech dependent, make it require sailing or something much earlier...

 

[Koshling]

Oh god, please don't do that. Making it impossible to work ocean squares in a city's radius until the freaking Renaissance era is a bad, bad idea...

If you really must have it be tech dependent, make it require sailing or something much earlier...

It's NOT impossible to work ocean. Notre the statement 'THROUGH not to'. That means your culture WILL spread to the firs set of ocean (one off the coast) but not beyond that. Since there is always coast adjacent to you, then a first line of ocean (which as I state you can spread to), that means the first tiles you CANNOT spread to (until Navigation) are 3 away from your city, so you can't work them ANYWAY until much later in the game.

 

[wolfensoul9]

It's NOT impossible to work ocean. Notre the statement 'THROUGH not to'. That means your culture WILL spread to the firs set of ocean (one off the coast) but not beyond that. Since there is always coast adjacent to you, then a first line of ocean (which as I state you can spread to), that means the first tiles you CANNOT spread to (until Navigation) are 3 away from your city, so you can't work them ANYWAY until much later in the game.

Oh, okay, my bad. I didn't understand what you were meaning by "through" and "to". Sorry about that.

 

[Koshling]

Oh, okay, my bad. I didn't understand what you were meaning by "through" and "to". Sorry about that.

I forgot to mention - I also intend it to strongly discount flows along routes, so you'll be able to 'train' your culture spread by building routes where you want it to go to some extent (encourage at least). This will also tend to make nearby cities merge their cultural borders sooner assuming you route them together.

 

[Taxman66]

Koshling, would culture be able to spread through a mountain pass before mountaineering?

 

[Faustmouse]

Ok, I have a concrete approach to rewriting realistic culture spread in mind, which I'll do once V27 is out. The characteristics of it will be:

• Every spread point WILL cause at least one tile spread
• Spread rate will be somewhat tech dependent. In particular it will not be possible to spread THROUGH (to will be possible) mountains until you have mountaineering, or THROUGH (but again to is possible) ocean until Navigation. Once you get those techs it will tend to release very significant culture flows in 'catch-up' areas, so these will have extra strategic benefit
• At each spread event a pool of points will be allocated proportional to the square of the spread level. Tiles adjacent to the current spread borders will be claimed in lowest cost order, until the spread pool is exhausted, with the first tile always taken regardless of whether that is over the points pool size or not
• The 'cost' of spreading to a tile will be based on:
  • Its distance from the city
  • Its terrain type (as with current RCS)
  • Whether it involves crossing a river (as with current RCS)
  • Whether it contains a revealed bonus (that will significantly reduce the cost to reflect the effort a culture would make to 'capture' a bonus it knows about). This reduction won't be so much that your stone-on-hill-across-a-river will b preferred to an immediately available grassland with no river, but won't be far behind (I'll also make the reduction percentage a tunable global define so we can fiddle easily)

The effect should be guaranteed spreading (to at least some degree), following terrain channels (the 'realistic' bit), a degree of 'reaching out' for attractive tiles (revealed bonuses), and the ability to spread further more quickly if channeled into narrow regions (i.e. - some compensation for that mountain range near you, by squishing the spread wider in the other directions)

Sounds really good Maybe you could change the storyteller to be used on a plot rather than just cities to make culture even more likely to spread to this tile?

Edit: Another thing I just saw: Could you please make ressources EVERYONE have (like Wood or Milk) hide in the trading (and the foreign advisor) screen? It would be best if you could switch between hide and make visible, because in early eras you might need to trade them, but in classical or even earlier, almost all civs have the same manufactured ressources and it's just too crowded.