Play Civ2 scenarios online?

[Morten Blaabjerg]

There are a number of sites, where one may play Civilization II online, for instance :
https://playclassic.games/game/play-sid-meiers-civilization-ii-online/play/

For obvious reasons these sites do not allow one to play scenarios, other than the two provided by the basic game. But it seems, that online play is an excellent way to make old Civ2 scenarios accesible to most people today, where they can be played without regard to platforms or local context. It would be an obvious way, for instance, to create scenarios and use these for educational purposes, where you will have no problems regarding that not all students have the game etc.

I've made a couple of these scenarios myself, and would love to make them accessible in this way, and blow some new life into this game.

Writing this to see if any others of the old guard (or a younger guard) would have any interest in this idea and/or would be willing to help set it up, and/or determine what type of technical setup/man hours would be needed in order to accomplish this.

The scenarios are mostly created for the MGE version of Civ2. It will need to be determined if this edition will be executable online (but since the basic version can I can't see why MGE would not).

They consists in part of a .scn file which is placed in the root folder or in the "scenario" folder, or in a subfolder in the "scenario" folder with the same name as the .scn file. This subfolder may contain customized graphics files, rules.txt, events.txt and other customized files for the scario. When the scenario.scn file is loaded so are the customized files. The only exceptions are the scenarios where other files than standard files have been customized, such as customized menu art in the .dll files of the game.

I can see two workable approaches :

1. Where there is one executable version of MGE, which is launched, and this version has access to all scenarios, which are placed in the "scenario" folder".

2. There's an independent executable version of MGE for each scenario, where those of the game files that are customized for the given scenario are simply replaced by the customized ones, and the .scn files is placed in the game root folder. Each scenario runs as if it is a separate version of Civ2. The advantages of this approach is that it is more easy to use HTML to index different scenarios and point players in precisely the right direction and make additional instructions unnessecary. There will simply be one .scn file to select for each installment.

Would be awesome if we could simply create a package, that could be put on one's own server, so that scenarios could be made accessible where they are relevant.

NOTE : I am well aware all of the above may constitute if best a huge legal minefield, but also doubt that anyone nurtures continued commercial interests in Civ2 and therefore I doubt there would be massive resistance against something like this, particularly with the added benefit of making resources accessible for educational purposes.

 

[Patine]

There are a number of sites, where one may play Civilization II online, for instance :
https://playclassic.games/game/play-sid-meiers-civilization-ii-online/play/

For obvious reasons these sites do not allow one to play scenarios, other than the two provided by the basic game. But it seems, that online play is an excellent way to make old Civ2 scenarios accesible to most people today, where they can be played without regard to platforms or local context. It would be an obvious way, for instance, to create scenarios and use these for educational purposes, where you will have no problems regarding that not all students have the game etc.

I've made a couple of these scenarios myself, and would love to make them accessible in this way, and blow some new life into this game.

Writing this to see if any others of the old guard (or a younger guard) would have any interest in this idea and/or would be willing to help set it up, and/or determine what type of technical setup/man hours would be needed in order to accomplish this.

The scenarios are mostly created for the MGE version of Civ2. It will need to be determined if this edition will be executable online (but since the basic version can I can't see why MGE would not).

They consists in part of a .scn file which is placed in the root folder or in the "scenario" folder, or in a subfolder in the "scenario" folder with the same name as the .scn file. This subfolder may contain customized graphics files, rules.txt, events.txt and other customized files for the scario. When the scenario.scn file is loaded so are the customized files. The only exceptions are the scenarios where other files than standard files have been customized, such as customized menu art in the .dll files of the game.

I can see two workable approaches :

1. Where there is one executable version of MGE, which is launched, and this version has access to all scenarios, which are placed in the "scenario" folder".

2. There's an independent executable version of MGE for each scenario, where those of the game files that are customized for the given scenario are simply replaced by the customized ones, and the .scn files is placed in the game root folder. Each scenario runs as if it is a separate version of Civ2. The advantages of this approach is that it is more easy to use HTML to index different scenarios and point players in precisely the right direction and make additional instructions unnessecary. There will simply be one .scn file to select for each installment.

Would be awesome if we could simply create a package, that could be put on one's own server, so that scenarios could be made accessible where they are relevant.

NOTE : I am well aware all of the above may constitute if best a huge legal minefield, but also doubt that anyone nurtures continued commercial interests in Civ2 and therefore I doubt there would be massive resistance against something like this, particularly with the added benefit of making resources accessible for educational purposes.

PBEM's are far preferred here over direct online play because most members are mature, working people - not students, as a rule - and have busy lives, and are scattered across a wide variety of time zones, especially for the small core number of members here. The PBEM format tends to work better for the schedules and lifestyles of most here. If you had a scenario to propose setting up a PBEM for, by all means, start a proposal thread. But I can't guarantee much committed interest in direct, online play, from my own experience here. Just a friendly heads up.

 

[McMonkey]

There was a Russian chap here recently called Buck2000 (I think that's correct) who was really into online gaming Civ2. I'm the same as Patine in that I like to dip into a PBEM game when I have time but cannot really commit to proper online simultaneous games.

 

[techumseh]

I played a scenario on-line once, but it was years ago. It was 'The Thirty Year's War' by Jesus Munoz. We played for a few hours, but people quit because the game was pretty slow. I think you'd need to modify scenarios for on-line play so things move pretty quickly. I think simultaneous turns was a thing too, but memory fails.

 

[Buck2005]

Hello! You have a very interesting offer. My thoughts about your proposal:


1). Firstly, you should understand that the circle of people who are interested in playing civ2 (in any form) is very limited. In addition, even this seemingly narrow circle, where everyone should know each other, is segregated to a large extent and divided into slightly related interest groups. Therefore, you should not expect a quick response to any of your suggestions from interested people. Nevertheless, I am sure that there will definitely be any. For a year and a half while I was looking more or less regularly through this sub-forum on the game of civ2, I was surprised to find that it was like an iceberg.

Having come here for the first time after a long break, I was sure that it was useless to find active players in civ2 here. It turned out not so. I met here with a fairly large number of players. And we play this good old game more or less regularly. I am sure that you will also be able to find like-minded people on this site. The overwhelming number of active participants in this sub-forum, whose opinion you have already heard, or will hear more, are the tip of this iceberg. Their work certainly deserves respect, and their opinions are quite authoritative. However, they are not very representative. This is an extremely close and cohesive group of people united by a common interest (creating scenario) over the years.
This is both their plus and minus. The pros are obvious. Minus - they are somewhat "cut off from reality."

2). Regarding your "game in the scenario" offer. I really have a lot of experience with online games in civ2. In addition, I am the administrator of a small group of civ2 lovers in my country. .I regularly communicate with a variety of people who are interested in this game to one degree or another. People come, go. I have accumulated a sufficient amount of feedback from people (both from my own country and from people I was able to meet on this site), and I have a clear idea of how this version of the game of civilization is still interesting for people. Therefore, I am not afraid to say that I express now the opinion of these people (vox populi, so to speak ...))

Over the past 10 years, outside of this LS subgroup, I have not met a single person who was truly interested in scenarios. Therefore, I think that it is the scenarios that will be unattractive to a wide (if one may say so with respect to civ2) audience of players. Personally, I myself am very loyal to the scenarios. Some of them are as beautiful as works of art. However, from a practical point of view, they are little adapted for playing in the normal mode, and completely incompatible with the online game mode.

As it was correctly said above, one move will take a very long time (even in the mode of simultaneous moves). I think this is the key point that completely kills the desire to play the scenarioin the format of online games. Personally, my patience limit is 5-7 minutes (at a late stage of the game). Other people with whom I had to play, the patience limit is even less ...) The overwhelming number of scenarios for MGE and for TOTPP will require much more time on your first turn, not to mention the subsequent ones.

The mismatch of time zones, "the employment of mature people" - in my opinion these are not very serious arguments. I think the difference between an adult and a student is the ability to manage your time. In my experience, this is a very old version of Civilization, played by people of the appropriate age, and with the appropriate time management skills. For me personally (and the players I played with) it was never a problem to allocate an average of 4-6 (maximum 8) hours every 3-4 months to play. For my only experience of playing in the PBEM format, I spent a disproportionately longer amount of time on the game than on the format of an online game (if you add up several years).

3). I think if you are really interested in maximizing the civ2 player’s audience who prefer the online game format, you’ll no longer want to popularize the “scenario format” but popularize the “modified game” format. You can simultaneously use the advantages of the original civ2 campaign (this is interesting to the overwhelming number of civ2 fans, in my experience), and use the richest arsenal of great improvements for the game gained by the collective creativity of the local sub-group of the Scenario League. This will help at least in part to unite the two unrelated worlds of civ2 lovers.

4). Creating a special server for civ2 is definitely a good idea. Personally, I would be very interested in such a service. Currently, the format of online games in civ2 has a number of technical problems. There are a number of platforms with which we play civ2. Tungle and Evolve recently ceased operations. These were convenient and problem-free platforms for old versions of Windows (8th inclusive). 10 windows was incompatible with them. Hamachi - works fine on Windows 8 and 10, but does not work on 7. Evolve has now moved to the player.me service. Creating a single universal service specifically for civ2, which takes into account the particular features of this particular game, was very desirable.

But the reality is that it is unlikely that we will be able to interest major players in the game industry to create such a service (given the negligible possible return from monetization). Perhaps sooner or later there will be enthusiasts (even on this site) who will be interested in creating such a service. But it is unlikely that we will be able to find them among fans of scenarios (for the above reasons).

So, to summarize, I want to once again offer you first of all to be patient. The site civfanatics.com (the site as a whole, of course, and not its private sub-forums) is really Rome, where all roads for civilization fans, including the 2nd version, lead. Sooner or later you will find like-minded people here. )

 

[JPetroski]

The overwhelming number of active participants in this sub-forum, whose opinion you have already heard, or will hear more, are the tip of this iceberg. Their work certainly deserves respect, and their opinions are quite authoritative. However, they are not very representative.

I'm amazed at how many people are in the Civ2 general forum and how few are here. I find it bizarre but I guess I just take different things out of this game than many others. I am curious why so few from the general forum post here, and wonder if any lurk.

With that said, I wasn't reading @Morten Blaabjerg 's post as his necessarily wanting to increase the number of people playing the base game of Civ2. He was specifically discussing ways to increase the number of people who would play scenarios (as he had designed a few, and presumably wants people to play with them). Hence while I agree with a lot of your post @Buck2005, and find it well-written and a pretty accurate take on what's going on here, I also don't think it really helps Morten's dilemma, which is a dilemma I also ponder: how to get more people to play our scenarios (which would give more of us incentive to design them).

I do tend to agree with everyone here that online scenarios probably aren't going to work for most games. There's a few where it could work out (empire builders where you start with only a handful of units) but the first turn of my & Prof. Garfield's latest multiplayer scenario, Over the Reich, for example, could easily take over an hour, as can most of the popular multiplayer games (First Strike, Imperialism, etc.). And, case in point, Prof. Garfield and I went to a great deal of trouble to try and minimize how much time each turn (barring the first few) would take.

I would like to explore different ways to rebuild and expand this community. Even adding another 20 regulars would be huge. Lua is just too good of an opportunity to pass up and I feel like there's so much life left here. There's a few problems though:

1. Publicity, of which we have very little;
2. The scarcity of copies of the game; and
3. The difficulty that some people have in getting the game to install on modern machines.

There always seems to be a hero who comes through for #3, but points 1 and 2 are tough.

As to 1, I'd love to see lua and ToTPP featured on one of the podcasts advertised on the main site and it might be time to approach the people who put these together. I'd love to join @TheNamelessOne @Prof. Garfield, @Grishnach, @tootall_2012 and @Knighttime for a session on this talking about what we've been able to achieve with some scenarios and the new possibilities that have been opened. I'd also love to see more people talk about this in the "What video games are you playing" thread in off topic. I post an update once in awhile there.

As to 2, we need to figure out if this is abandonware and if not, if we can secure written permission to distribute it anyway. We don't have a financial interest in this game and it's impossible at this point for the content owners to derive any financial benefit from it either (there is no way they're still collecting royalties as no actual shops that would disperse them still stock this), but they might be convinced that it couldn't hurt to drive additional interest in Civilization as a whole. I'd love, for example, to head over to hitechcreations.com and market Over the Reich to my friends over there who have a keen interest in aviation. There is, simply put, no other game like it on the market. The only other strategic bombing games available (Defense of the Reich and Gary Grigsby's Bombing the Reich) are exceptionally complex in comparison, taking hours to days to plan each turn (of which there are 700 in the grand campaign). I really think I could get more people to come here for it and play other scenarios because of it, but I'm leery of advertising ways of acquiring the game on that website, less I be "skuzzified" (their moderator).

I'm not sure if anyone who pursued the source code petition still has any contacts with the company that we could approach. A simple letter allowing the distribution so long as no monetary gain is derived from it would allow us to simply host a copy of the entire game including ToTPP here or the Scenario League and directing people there legally. That's what I'd really like to see happen and what I think it would take to truly revitalize this community and draw in new blood/bring back old timers who have long ago lost their disc.

 

[Buck2005]

With that said, I wasn't reading @Morten Blaabjerg 's post as his necessarily wanting to increase the number of people playing the base game of Civ2. He was specifically discussing ways to increase the number of people who would play scenarios (as he had designed a few, and presumably wants people to play with them).

The author of the title post very clearly said that he was interested in "how to play scenarios in the format of online games." ) Nevertheless, like the others who spoke out, I express skepticism in the rationality of this idea. But I do not dissuade him from the realization of his desire. On the contrary, I hope that he will find those who want to play in the scenarios online game. I also propose to consider alternatives. For example, "modified game". I would be curious to take a look at his scenarios, which he mentioned at the beginning.

You wonder why there are so few who want to play in the scenarios. Honestly, I have now written a large text, where I tried to express my opinion on this matter. But then I remembered that I had been practically repressed once before, even to a ban for such a brazen trick ....) Therefore, I erased everything just in case. So, just in case, I will warn random readers of this topic, not related to the LS group. Be carefull. Here not all opinions are allowed, but only correct ones. )

In short, I think your community is very short of competent marketing and an assessment of its potential audience. Although the international community of civ2 lovers is very limited, it is nevertheless quite large. It is very difficult for me to find a lover of a modified game (although there are such). However, I have no problem finding partner players in the original civ2 campaign. Personally, I have long been convinced that the overwhelming majority of civ2 fans prefer the original campaign. Frankly, for me it is very strange, since in my opinion there are a lot of flaws in it.

It probably has some hidden virtues that make people choose between civ2 and new versions of civilization (and even other strategy games). Therefore, if you want to expand the audience of game lovers in the scenarios, try to "look through the eyes" of an outsider. Understand that it is interesting to him in this version of civilization. Personally, I do not impose on you, and do not offer my services. Just advice from the side. )

 

[JPetroski]

Buck it wasn't your opinion it was your delivery which left a lot to be desired, probably in large part a language/custom barrier/misubderstanding, though I'm questioning that now. There is no such thing as a "correct" opinion and it's a little dissapointing to see your apparent lack of accountability here to be perfectly frank as demonstrated by your saying "Here not all opinions are allowed. Only correct ones."

A benefit of the doubt was extended to you by several people including myself on the thought that you might not realize how your post in that thread came across, but I can promise you as a native English speaker that a reasonably prudent person could have been expected to react just as people here did. This was explained to you and McMonkey went so far as to give you quite an olive branch, vouch for you, convince a number of us that it was a misunderstanding , and have a fun match.

This is a welcoming community full of different opinions that are valued and it's dissapointing to see you "warn" others about us because we reacted exactly as one would expect us to from your post in that thread.

Regardless, I'd like to understand if there is something I can do to make my current scenarios more accessible to a wider audience (perhaps a better way to reduce the learning curve?) and would welcome your (or any random reader's) opinion on that.

 

[JPetroski]

And to expand a bit on my questioning:

If your answer to why more people don't like scenarios is because they simply prefer the style of the base game (start with 1-2 settlers and a full undiscovered tech tree and no cities, and build into an empire), then that's fine - there's nothing to be done about such a person and no reason for us to discuss that person further. In the same light, I don't play fantasy scenarios because they just don't do much for me. Some of the best scenarios ever built are fantasy scenarios but I don't touch them and that's fine. There's little point in asking me why I don't play more of them and there's little point in asking someone who just wants the base game experience why they don't play scenarios. To each their own.

What I'm really curious about is if your answer is broader than that...

Are scenarios too overwhelming to people?
Do they struggle with installation instructions?
Would they benefit from tutorials within them?
Is there a better way to reach them? Are these random new folks I see in the general forums even aware that they exist and are an option?

I'm not trying to understand how to change someone's opinion on the subject, I'm trying to understand if they're currently in a place where they've even had an opportunity to form one, or if there's something I can do, as a designer, to make my work more accessible to someone stumbling in off the street who never tried a scenario before, but doesn't necessarily have a defined preference against them.

That kind of stuff.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

As to 2, we need to figure out if this is abandonware and if not, if we can secure written permission to distribute it anyway. We don't have a financial interest in this game and it's impossible at this point for the content owners to derive any financial benefit from it either (there is no way they're still collecting royalties as no actual shops that would disperse them still stock this), but they might be convinced that it couldn't hurt to drive additional interest in Civilization as a whole. I'd love, for example, to head over to hitechcreations.com and market Over the Reich to my friends over there who have a keen interest in aviation. There is, simply put, no other game like it on the market. The only other strategic bombing games available (Defense of the Reich and Gary Grigsby's Bombing the Reich) are exceptionally complex in comparison, taking hours to days to plan each turn (of which there are 700 in the grand campaign). I really think I could get more people to come here for it and play other scenarios because of it, but I'm leery of advertising ways of acquiring the game on that website, less I be "skuzzified" (their moderator).

I'm not sure if anyone who pursued the source code petition still has any contacts with the company that we could approach. A simple letter allowing the distribution so long as no monetary gain is derived from it would allow us to simply host a copy of the entire game including ToTPP here or the Scenario League and directing people there legally. That's what I'd really like to see happen and what I think it would take to truly revitalize this community and draw in new blood/bring back old timers who have long ago lost their disc.

As far as I can tell, 2K games owns the rights to Civ II. They were the ones that released Civilization Chronicles, and they currently run civilization.com, which has Civ II listed (though it doesn't seem like you can actually purchase it.)

My advice would be (if you have a twitter account) to ask the official Civ twitter page https://twitter.com/CivGame if they are currently selling Test of Time. As far as I understand, these companies usually have people whose job it is to monitor and respond to social media. If they are selling Test of Time, then we know where to point people. If not, that gives an opening to ask who to contact if we want to negotiate the right to distribute the game or make a bulk purchase of licenses.

I haven't read the rest of this thread that closely, but it might not even be possible to have lua event scenarios played online (although perhaps that is something that should be tried).

 

[Buck2005]

I still do not understand what outrageous you found in my past topic. I presume (perhaps incorrectly) that your community reacted very aggressively to my last post because of my expressive manner of speaking. I apologize once again (as I apologized then) if I offended someone there. I have always emphasized (including throughout the entire past "story" from its beginning to its end), that I highly appreciate your work on creating scripts. Nevertheless, all the thoughts that I expressed, I find relevant until now. Despite familiarity with TOTPP (for which many thank McMonke).

Take one of my theses from the last time. - Scenarios in civ2 objectively lose the competition to similar modern games in the strategy genre. It seems to me, creating over the years my own magnificent scenarios (I really consider many of them to be excellent work), your community has completely forgotten what the essence of the game of civilization itself is. Why do people play civilization and not other games. When you delve too deeply into the historical period that interests you, you stop competing with civ2, civ3, 4, 5 and 6 for a potential player. You are creating a new game (albeit on the civ2 platform) and this new game is entering into competition with other games in the “strategy” genre.

I downloaded from the modern-day Napoleon scenario. As a lover of civ2, I agree with the assessment of the local majority that this is a masterpiece compared to the stark scenarios of both the MGE era and the TOTPP era. Now open the game Europe Universalis IV. You don't even have to play it. Just download the same period of the Napoleonic Wars, and look a bit in the gameplay, and game mechanics. Everything that you or I consider to be the advantage of the Napoleon civ2 scenario has long been implemented there (back in the 3rd version of the game: leader bonuses, diplomacy, etc. ). Moreover, it is implemented at a fundamentally higher and thoughtful level. Literally everything.

Moreover, I ignore the graphics. Since for me, overly overloaded and animated graphics are more likely a drawback of the game. For the player there is a choice: play the script, or play the EU. For me, honestly, it is not clear what criteria should influence the player so that he chooses your scenario. About your scenario "Over the Reich" I can not say anything. I saw him. Since I have never played similar WWII games, I have nothing to compare with. Although from the point of view of the civ2 fan, I see in her even greater progress in terms of gameplay development than in Napoleon. However, I assume that there are a huge number of games on this subject. I also do not understand the competitive advantages of your scenario over these games.

I carefully emphasize that I highly appreciate your work (and the work of your collaborator) in creating this scenario. However, I would be interested to hear your opinion, why I, as just a random player, who wants to play some game of the WWII era, will have to choose the civ2 platform, and not the other? What makes it different from other games? For myself, I see only one rational argument in favor of your scenario: yes, I’m an old gamer, and I’m not interested in any games other than civ2. And for me, as a civ2 fan, your scenarios, and the Napoleon scenario, will really be a breakthrough.

I can answer your questions in the second post only on the first question, and answer again the same as last time: yes, you have a very high entry threshold. I sent a link to the script (Napoleon, yours did not send, as I myself am not very interested in his subject matter) to some of my familiar lovers of civ2. He offered to evaluate the progress in the development of the game. They unanimously replied - "this is very difficult, although it was very well done, let's better play the normal game."

In the last post in the spring, I made a number of suggestions to you that I (as a regular civ2 user) would like to see in new scenarios. Perhaps my suggestions were too naive. First of all, stop competing with other games of the same genre, and focus on the advantages of the civ2 platform. But, as you reaffirm now - you really are not interested in this good old game (as you put it with "two setlers").

In general, I do not expect any positive feedback from you. Each time I am more convinced that we are a little "from different planets".
I agree with you, there is nothing wrong with that: how many people, so many tastes. If you find pleasure in creating your great scenarios, and playing them in your extremely narrow circle - I'm just happy for you. And I will also be happy for you if you manage to attract new people to play with them through advertising and other things. I really will be glad. But I think that this is not feasible in reality.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Hi guys, awesome to see there's still life in this forum! Was a very active regular a long while ago, both in the CivFanatics Scenario Creation Forum and in this one, which was hosted elsewhere at the time. I agree with what's been said - it's a knowledge base, that goes very deep, so what one sees is indeed the tip of the iceberg as far as scenario creation in Civ2 is concerned.

To clarify : I have no real interest in multiplayer games or pbems. That is not my concern here. My idea is, that if you can get vanilla civ2 to play online - with no prior installation of the game - so you would also be able to get scenarios which can be played online - with no prior installation of the game necessary. So everything can be run off the top of a webserver. I find what is prohibitive in using historical scenarios made for Civ2 for say - educational purposes - is that almost noone has the game installed and everyone has different platforms, which may or may not actually run the game. When you play the game off a server, you're past those obstacles.

Now, historical scenarios for Civ2 are probably of limited use to anyone these days, but I still have to see an engine as effective as Civ2 in sparking off interest in history and historical problems as Civ2, as well as making accessible the tools of creation to virtually anyone, since all it requires technically to create a historical scenario is a text editor and a graphics processor.

I myself have learned a lot, from scenarios such as - say - Kobayashi's Zweiter Weltkrieg - because it is a very well researched scenario, where each detail makes you intrigued and interested to learn more. I know I aspired to create something which could inspire along those lines with my own scenarios "Hammer of the North" about the viking raids, and "The Spanish Armada"... And I myself learned quite a great deal from those efforts, because of all the research involved, working with the effects of rule changes, with how the AI responded to those rule changes, and the work with creating an iconography which was effective, and sound effects to go along with it. And so on.

I was all ruined, IMHO with Civ3 and Civ4 etc. which are all great games, but scenario creation wise lifted the barrier of entry to a place where only technically interested people were/are able to create scenarios, because it simply required too much to create the graphics and alter the rules. What was awesome to me with Civ2 that not only could you change the rules, you could also completely change how the game looked and thus make your vision truly come out. With the later installments this became very much unfeasible unless you didn't have a dayjob.

So what Civ2 did and could back then still interests me and intrigues me, especially if it could be brought to a place, where a given scenario could be made accessible to a player with a single link, and no need for further installations etc. It would also make creating scenarios (say, for students, as an exercise in a history class/course) viable, if their creations could actually be played by other people, online, without the hazzle of obtaining and installing the game.

 

[JPetroski]

Well, a major reason some of us are I interested in distribution rights (or at least guaranteed benign neglect) is because this game doesn't really require an install any more complicated than "extract this folder over to your c or d drive". We could simply make a fully-patched game available for download, and have it include several scenarios that appeal to a wide audience.

I think you nailed it, Morten, as to what the appeal of this game is, however. All the games Buck, for example, mentioned that we are supposedly "competing" with are cnsiderably more difficult to mod. ANYONE can mod a civ2 scenario, and, as you said, bring it totally to life.

At the end of the day, the reason I'm after more players is to have a wider audience that might take a stab of building a new scenario that I get to play in the future.

 

[Buck2005]

OK. Judging by the ironic tone of your posts, clearly parodying my posts here, you are obviously not in the mood for constructive communication. Well, I think we really have nothing to talk to you about. )

Returning to the theme of Napoleon, it remains to recall Talleyrand’s famous phrase concerning the restoration of the “old order” in France: “they have not forgotten anything and have not learned anything”. Alexander I expressed the same idea in a conversation with Kolenkur at the Congress of Vienna: "The Bourbons did not improve and are irreparable."

It remains for me to also wish the gentlemen of the local Bourbons further creative success, and stop taking your time. Let everyone do what he is interested in. )

 

[JPetroski]

You asked what makes this game different from others and I replied that it was the ease of modding. I can see that if you're not interested in that, then that's that.

I could respond a little more later about other unique elements but I was rushing this morning.

No offense or parody intended. Sorry if that was how it's received.

 

[techumseh]

Hi guys, awesome to see there's still life in this forum! Was a very active regular a long while ago, both in the CivFanatics Scenario Creation Forum and in this one, which was hosted elsewhere at the time. I agree with what's been said - it's a knowledge base, that goes very deep, so what one sees is indeed the tip of the iceberg as far as scenario creation in Civ2 is concerned.

Morten, nice to hear from you after all this time. I was wondering if you got any farther on your African exploration scenario? I still have all the files. It looked great.

 

[Buck2005]

You asked what makes this game different from others and I replied that it was the ease of modding. .

This statement is correct only for graphic files. With regard to editing and modding text rules, as well as creating events (including LUA, including), civ2 is no different from other versions of civilization (except perhaps only the 1st), and other strategy games. I'm telling you, your community is clearly very distant from the rest of the game industry. And, obviously, you are not at all interested in how things are in modern games.

In my opinion, the main competitive advantage of civ2, which after 20 years still holds fans of this game, is the initial simplicity of the gameplay, the low threshold for entering the game. Modding is very good. But in moderation. For example, Paradox Studio in the wake of the success of its original game Europe Universalis has released a large number of clones on a variety of topics. For example, the game Europa Universalis: Rome is essentially a “scenario” in relation to the original game. That is, this is exactly what you are doing here. However, in general, this game has failed, and has not gained even 10 shares of fans of the original EU. More successful was the Hearts of Iron series, based on the WWII theme. But again, it has a significantly smaller audience compared to the original because of the extremely complex gameplay. This is not my subjective opinion, these are facts based on the number of sales of these games.

I think this example well illustrates the trend in the gaming industry - the farther you go from the original of your gaming platform - the smaller audience you get. The ultimate case is the story of your community. Your modding has reached a very high altitude. But you almost completely lost your audience. There is a commonplace expression “history is cyclical”. Try to take it on board. Start from the beginning - go back to the original. But, of course, on its high technical level, achieved thanks to the efforts of many people here. I think people will come back to you in this case.

Of course, I understand that you are not selling anything here. Nevertheless, in my opinion, one of the main motivators for engaging in mooding is moral satisfaction from the fact that your work is useful and interesting to other people. The moral feedback from the positive reviews of grateful users of your script is a “fee” for your large and well-done work. However, I see, and you yourself repeatedly mentioned that you do not understand the reasons why new people do not come to you.

I try, as best I can, as a civ2 fan to tell you my vision of this situation. But once again I rest on a tightly closed gate. Well, that's your business. Perhaps you really have enough satisfaction from the reviews by youss of an extremely small group of 10-15 active members. There is a Russian proverb (which in turn is a paraphrase of the Latin proverb): “the cuc koo praises the rooster for praising the cuc koo”. This proverb seems to me to very well show the current state of affairs of your community.

 

[Patine]

This statement is correct only for graphic files. With regard to editing and modding text rules, as well as creating events (including LUA, including), civ2 is no different from other versions of civilization (except perhaps only the 1st), and other strategy games. I'm telling you, your community is clearly very distant from the rest of the game industry. And, obviously, you are not at all interested in how things are in modern games.

In my opinion, the main competitive advantage of civ2, which after 20 years still holds fans of this game, is the initial simplicity of the gameplay, the low threshold for entering the game. Modding is very good. But in moderation. For example, Paradox Studio in the wake of the success of its original game Europe Universalis has released a large number of clones on a variety of topics. For example, the game Europa Universalis: Rome is essentially a “scenario” in relation to the original game. That is, this is exactly what you are doing here. However, in general, this game has failed, and has not gained even 10 shares of fans of the original EU. More successful was the Hearts of Iron series, based on the WWII theme. But again, it has a significantly smaller audience compared to the original because of the extremely complex gameplay. This is not my subjective opinion, these are facts based on the number of sales of these games.

I think this example well illustrates the trend in the gaming industry - the farther you go from the original of your gaming platform - the smaller audience you get. The ultimate case is the story of your community. Your modding has reached a very high altitude. But you almost completely lost your audience. There is a commonplace expression “history is cyclical”. Try to take it on board. Start from the beginning - go back to the original. But, of course, on its high technical level, achieved thanks to the efforts of many people here. I think people will come back to you in this case.

Of course, I understand that you are not selling anything here. Nevertheless, in my opinion, one of the main motivators for engaging in mooding is moral satisfaction from the fact that your work is useful and interesting to other people. The moral feedback from the positive reviews of grateful users of your script is a “fee” for your large and well-done work. However, I see, and you yourself repeatedly mentioned that you do not understand the reasons why new people do not come to you.

I try, as best I can, as a civ2 fan to tell you my vision of this situation. But once again I rest on a tightly closed gate. Well, that's your business. Perhaps you really have enough satisfaction from the reviews by youss of an extremely small group of 10-15 active members. There is a Russian proverb (which in turn is a paraphrase of the Latin proverb): “the cuc koo praises the rooster for praising the cuc koo”. This proverb seems to me to very well show the current state of affairs of your community.

Oh, now we're not only hostile, aggressive, and insular, we're primitive savages who don't understand modern ways of doing things? I know others have given you the benefit of the doubt, but the tenor of your posts has not changed once, "translation or cultural barriers" aside. I'm feeling like @McMonkey and @JPetrotski are showing saint-like patience, but which can't be expected of everyone. I, myself, am getting irritated.

 

[Patine]

@Morten Blaabjerg Was it you that made that pack of graphics that was up for download back on Apolyton in the "African Pack" that had the Colonial Era East and Central African units and terrains? I still have those as well. Plus, I noticed your high post count, and realized you couldn't be some newly-made account, but you must have created your first account on Apolyton before I started there (and I've been a member longer than @McMonkey and @Broken_Erika, at the very least). Anyways, it's a pleasure to meet you!

 

[Buck2005]

Oh, now we're not only hostile, aggressive, and insular, we're primitive savages who don't understand modern ways of doing things? I know others have given you the benefit of the doubt, but the tenor of your posts has not changed once, "translation or cultural barriers" aside. I'm feeling like @McMonkey and @JPetrotski are showing saint-like patience, but which can't be expected of everyone. I, myself, am getting irritated.

You are again fighting with an imaginary enemy. I endlessly emphasize that I consider your community to be a meeting of excellent specialists in civ2 field, as well as polite and correct people in communication (not all are true, but for the most part). However, sensible dialogue cannot consist only of excessively sweet-sugary manners. For example, in your post you completely ignore the substantive part about modern games (it would be interesting to hear your opinion, why civ2 is not very competitive in comparison with them). Instead, you, like the prehistoric Bourbons, lay clinging to the mythical "insults" that I supposedly inflicted on you with a previous post. Well, again, this is your choice. You do not need a dialogue, ok.