Play the World first Screenshots!

[Isak]

Originally posted by Frimlin
Not sure why you choose Commerical for the Vikings though, but I can see expansionistic. But then, there aren't many to choose from - I don't see them as being very strongly religious, though that's still very relevant to them. I definitely don't see them as Scientific. The only one that sounds right to me is Militaristic.. just because they were very much like that!

I think the Viking PR department has gotten a good hold on you Frimlin
Some of the Vikings were raiders, mainly the Danes, but they were never especially skilled warriors. Like I mentioned in my previous post, most Vikings preferred to surprise the enemy rather than meet them in open confrontation - when their bad reputation started setting in, they found they could easily scare off (especially English) villagers with a bit of makeup and an angry look (it was more sophisticated than that, I admit).
But this raiding business was nothing compared to the tremendous amount of trading the Vikings dealt in - The city Birka in Sweden is believed to have been the largest Trading Station in europe, during the viking age - but of course, there are not a whole lot of romantic sagas written about going from port to port handing over fur in exchange for copper, so I guess it's easy to make the false assumption that vikings were not traders.

And btw, the Vikings were very religious - with their own pantheon, as I'm sure you already know.

 

[Thunderfall]

Originally posted by preastro
Hello! I'm so happy that I can be a new resistor today~ Actually here is very night time, but I couldn't get a sleep because of the news about "Play the world". Especially, it's amazing that Korean is included in the package.

hehe... I am sure Spanish and Scandinavians civers are just as happy as you.

The question still remains: How will Hwacha start a Golden Age?

 

[ChrTh]

Easy, TF: Lethal Damage


Some notes from the last few pages:
I got the Brady Bunch reference, but it was called 'Taboo', not Talisman...you ever just be walking around and suddenly you'd hear in your mind the little music they played when the Taboo was doing bad stuff...I always imagined that was how Spidey-sense worked (everything seems fine....wait, Taboo music!...a ha, I see a Tarantula!)

The reason I chose Hawaiian over Maori or just plain Polynesian was because I was aware of a female leader (and Firaxis is gung ho on getting as many lady leaders in the game) for the Hawaiians, and that way they could also be in the North American group, rather than the Asian group, which is getting crowded.


BTW,
Wouldn't it be great in Civ IV if Firaxis was to design a different Civ Leader for each level of play? Using the Romans, for example, you would have Julius Caesar on Deity Level, Trajan on Emperor Level, Constantine on Monarch Level, Hadrian on Regent Level, Nero (or Commodus) on Warlord Level, and Caligula on Chieftain Level. For the Americans, it could go Lincoln-Washington-Roosevelt(either one)-Jefferson-Polk-Buchanon. English could be Victoria-Elizabeth I-William I-Richard III-Henry VIII-George III, and so on.

 

[Isak]

Originally posted by Thunderfall
The question still remains: How will Hwacha start a Golden Age?

Sorry to repeat myself, but isn't it possible with Lethal Land Bombardment flagged?

Or doesn't that count as killing a civ? It's easy to test of course, so anyone at home in front of Civ3, feel free to do so

Edit: Oh darn, ChrTh beat me to it - but since it was my second attempt to point it out, I hope it's ok

 

[Stuie]

In arguing the Viking UU, remember that they just might add a new ability or two, one of which could be "Seafaring" or "Maritime" or some such. That would fit well with the Vikings and Carthaginians, maybe even Spain, giving them the advantage they should enjoy at sea, and allowing for a land based UU.

 

[Ordep]

The reason for Korea being in the game is simple: to sell more games. Korea is a huge market for computer games, especially multiplayer internet games (being the most connected country in the world), so Firaxis wants to gobble up that market.

Not being a Viking historian, I don't know much about their military tatics, but making berzerkers swordsmen with the ability to attack directly from a ship would fit with the marine raider steriotype. I'd also like them to add in a naval civ attribute (or something like it) that gives the civ maybe +1 sea movement, 1/2 price harbors, and galleys that don't sink in sea squares. Seems to fit well with 3 of the known new civs (Spain, Carthage, and the Vikings) perhaps for Korea (don't know enough about Korean history, sorry) and would fit any polynesian civ that was added.

Doing some quick math. . . With the extra attribute, and if you give 3 attributes to each civ: 34 unique combinations. One extra attribute, 2 attributes each: 21 unique combinations. 2 extra attributes, 2 each: 28 combinations.

I vote for giving 3 to each civ: it will allow them to add "seafaring" or whatever to deserving old civs (English, Greek, etc.), it givs a little more flexability so that they won't be forced into giving civs attributs they don't deserve just to make them unique, and it givs modders some unused unique combinations for making their own civs.

 

[Pangur Bán]

originally posted by Thunderfall
So far six out of those eight new Civs in the expansion pack are known. These six Civs are:
Mongols (UU: Keshik)
Carthaginians (from MP setup screen)
Spanish (UU: Conquistador)
Vikings (UU: Berserk)
Koreans (UU: Hwacha)
Celts (King Brennus)
The other two Civs are probably the Turks and the Mayas/Incas. Join the discussion

Why is it that you think the other 2 will be the Turks and Inca?

 

[Raul]

The Korean leader will probably be Admiral Yi Sun-Shin for any one that cares. He defeated the Japanese who were planning to invade China.

 

[preastro]

Hmm... Personally I think the leader of Korean can be "King Se-Jong" because he opened Korean's golden age. (Actually many leaders of Civ3 are the people who opened or made their civilization's golden age like Brennus with BC 390 Gaul...)

King Se-jong made and invented so many things for Korean. For instance, "Han-Guel (Korean writting-character)" is a result of his invention. Also he finally accomplished Korean's boundary that followed with two rivers (Ab-Rok river and Doo-maan river)...

 

[Level]

Could the new buttons above the unit info box last/next city, stack, last/next unit?
do thay get in the way of armys?
The diplomacy and map buttons are transparent, i don't think that is good

 

[slightlymarxist]

Originally posted by Thunderfall

hehe... I am sure Spanish and Scandinavians civers are just as happy as you.

The question still remains: How will Hwacha start a Golden Age?

Ooh happy happy happy Aagh! The pure unadultered joy of it all! [dance]

The Vikings (should be "Norse", but who am I): Expansionist & Commercial, for sure, if Firaxis want to keep things historically correct. But they probably won't, so we'll see a blonde-bearded Canute with horns on his helmet, wielding Berserker units and being Militarist.

I don't think they should be "Religious" as the trait is treated in the game because Norsica, while detailed and fascinating pantheon, is not the stuff of stable society. The effects of Religious is happier people, less anarchic, i.e. a pacified and obedient population... Vikings? Nah.

I think the Berserk will be a Swordsman with an extra attack point, pure and simple. Making it amphibious or reducing its Defence value is too radical I think, given the relative simplicity of other UU's in the game. And yes, the Berserk should be a Swordsman replacement (not a Warrior replacement). The Viking age counts as "Iron age" in Scandinavia, the Warrior unit is a representative of pre-metalworking militia.

On the Korean UU: Why is everyone assuming the Hwacha is an Artillery unit? It seems to me the "rockets on cartweel" construction shouldn't be able to fire a great distance. Artillery bombardment implies the ability to rain death from afar. Couldn't the Hwacha be a Musketman replacement, with an extra attack point? Simple as that...?

 

[Thunderfall]

Originally posted by slightlymarxist
I think the Berserk will be a Swordsman with an extra attack point, pure and simple. Making it amphibious or reducing its Defence value is too radical I think, given the relative simplicity of other UU's in the game. And yes, the Berserk should be a Swordsman replacement (not a Warrior replacement). The Viking age counts as "Iron age" in Scandinavia, the Warrior unit is a representative of pre-metalworking militia. [/B]

You know, Berserker is one of the units in the Might town in Heroes of Might and Magic IV.

"Berserkers attacks in a frenzy with no thought of defense. They are so riled up, in fact, that they cannot be control during combat. At the earliest opportunity, they will charge to the enemy. "

Here is the Berserker entry from the Quick Reference PDF poster:

 

[D.Shaffer]

Originally posted by preastro


Hmm... Personally I think the leader of Korean can be "King Se-Jong" because he opened Korean's golden age. (King Se-jong made and invented so many things for Korean. For instance, "Han-Guel (Korean writting-character)" is a result of his invention.

Heh, someone beat me to it. But only because I had to look the man's name up. As to why Korea?

A: The economic aspect. Lots of Korean gamers out there. (Someone already mentioned that)

B: Historical interest. Korea has LONG been a hot point in Asian history. It also has a dynamic history of its own.

C: Culturally, it's managed to maintain its own unique culture and 'national character' even though it's been sandwiched between two powerful, and oftentimes aggressive nations.

D: Korea (Especially under Se-Jong) invented MANY interesting things that you dont often hear about. Moveable type and printing before the west did. The first ironclad. One of the first purely phonetic alphabets.

And on to the million dollar question. What characteristics do you think the new cultures will have? I'm guessing Scientific and Religious for the Koreans.

 

[joycem10]

slightlymarxist wrote:

"On the Korean UU: Why is everyone assuming the Hwacha is an Artillery unit? It seems to me the "rockets on cartweel" construction shouldn't be able to fire a great distance. Artillery bombardment implies the ability to rain death from afar. Couldn't the Hwacha be a Musketman replacement, with an extra attack point? Simple as that...?"

the french musketeer is a musketman replacement with an extra attack point. i dont think Firaxis would have 2 UUs with the same stats.

the same thing goes for a berzerker being a swordsman with an extra attack point. the persian immortal is a swrodman replacement with an extra attack point. to truly differentiate the berzerker i believe anphibious attack is necessary.

 

[Ordep]

Originally posted by slightlymarxist


I think the Berserk will be a Swordsman with an extra attack point, pure and simple.

Swordsman with an extra attack point = Persian Immortal, correct? I don't think they'd make 2 UU's exactly the same.

 

[MrGone]

Immortals, I believe are 4/2/1. They also require Iron and Iron Working. With the extra attack point only and no requirements, maybe the Berserker would be available at the start of the game for the Vikings? That seems a bit unbalancing to me. Maybe they would require Iron Working but no resources required?

Edit: Never mind, just realized you said swordsman and I was thinking warrior.

 

[Novaya Havoc]

Originally posted by preastro

(Actually many leaders of Civ3 are the people who opened or made their civilization's golden age like Brennus with BC 390 Gaul...)

Yes, but definately not all. Lincoln, Cleopatra, Gandhi, Joan of Arc, Mao, and Bismarck are all disputable as to the "golden age."

Roosevelt, Ramsses II, Louis XIV, Frederick are all more "golden age" type of leaders for their representative Civs. Mao is disputable, and Gandhi -- while highly recognizable for India -- is definately not its greatest leader, nor anywhere near its golden age. The Indian empire is far older than Gandhi.

Catherine II, Elizabeth I, Alexander, Caesar, Tokugawa, Xerxes, Hammurabi, Shaka, and Montezuma, however, are all fitting representatives of their respective empires.

6-9. It isn't that different; not all leaders are placed with their nation's true "golden age."

-Ben

 

[slightlymarxist]

Hmm, right... I didn't think of duplicate UU's... Maybe it will be a Warrior with an extra attack point after all (no such thing yet I think?), or perhaps a Spearman with an attack rating of 2 (most Vikings carried spears actually, but this would sort of crimp the mirth with the Berserk image of a big dude with a huge axe)?

Viking Berserkers ("Bärsärk", means something like "bare torso" or "no shirt") were in fact real and devoted warrior-priests (sort of) to Oden (Odin), the God of Wisdom, Witchcraft and Berserkers. Before battle they stocked up on intoxicating fungus (mostly of the type "flugsvamp", dunno the English word, anyway it's pretty common in Scandinavia) and made sure that the "effects" of it kicked in just before battle. They would totally ignore pain, attack with furious anger and generally die very young (if not in battle then from prolonged exposure to the fungus).

The berserkers were quite few, feared and excentric lot though. Not the kind of people you'd see lined up in formation as part of an army.

 

[Isak]

Originally posted by slightlymarxist
The Vikings (should be "Norse", but who am I):

I fear that is one thing we will never make Firaxis change - but you are absolutely right.

Expansionist & Commercial, for sure, if Firaxis want to keep things historically correct. But they probably won't, so we'll see a blonde-bearded Canute with horns on his helmet, wielding Berserker units and being Militarist.

I guess there's no way to avoid that. Amazing that the Viking PR machine is still running so efficiently 1000 years after the Viking age ended....I guess I should be proud somehow...

I don't think they should be "Religious" as the trait is treated in the game because Norsica, while detailed and fascinating pantheon, is not the stuff of stable society. The effects of Religious is happier people, less anarchic, i.e. a pacified and obedient population... Vikings? Nah.

You're right - not much point in letting them build religious improvements at half cost. Most viking religion was practised (if that is even the correct word) withing the viking's own 4 walls.

Viking Berserkers ("Bärsärk", means something like "bare torso" or "no shirt") were in fact real and devoted warrior-priests (sort of) to Oden (Odin), the God of Wisdom, Witchcraft and Berserkers. Before battle they stocked up on intoxicating fungus (mostly of the type "flugsvamp", dunno the English word, anyway it's pretty common in Scandinavia) and made sure that the "effects" of it kicked in just before battle. They would totally ignore pain, attack with furious anger and generally die very young (if not in battle then from prolonged exposure to the fungus).

A very popular theory currently - I don't think it has been proven though. It seems odd that the Vikings were supposed to get high from eating this mushroom, when all you'll get from eating it today is really, really ill (not that I've tried though ). Anyway, I think the mushroom is called Amanita if anyone is interested.

 

[slightlymarxist]

Originally posted by Isak
A very popular theory currently - I don't think it has been proven though. It seems odd that the Vikings were supposed to get high from eating this mushroom, when all you'll get from eating it today is really, really ill (not that I've tried though ).

Yeah... Me neither...

I think they cooked it somehow, together with other stuff. Flugsvamp (Amanita?) IS hallucinogenic, though. That said, it's not very good for your stomach, that's right for sure... I'm not dead sure about the fungus thing actually, it's just something I've heard. Otherwise, I guess they could achieve frenzy with common ale as well...



Ever tried ole' Viking ale? Disgusting stuff, made of honey. Blech. Prefer German beer.

Edit: I think "mead" would be a better translation on second thought... "Honungsmjöd"...