Playable Byzantines in RFC 600AD

[coko]

Well the Byzantines were pretty much Greek Romans...

 

[Úmarth]

Oh dear, here we go again.

 

[flyingchicken]

Greek Romans is a perfect description!

If the Byzantines are going to spawn in-game, I think the conditions should be as simple as "Rome controls Constantinople," "Greece is not independent/does not exist," and "Rome collapses" or "Rome is not under Roman control."

The collapse/lost capital part why? Because, if we abstract the years when the Rome was divided, the barbs would have taken the capital (which spells imminent doom and collapse for most anyone).

 

[onedreamer]

Byzantines were Greek Romans only until the fall of the WRE, since it was ROME to grant roman citizenship to the freemen of the Empire. The Byzantine Empire took clear steps in political, social and cultural matters that were different from the Roman Empire, and they kept calling themselves Roman only for a matter of prestige. It's the same concept of "monarchies" surviving to this day accross Europe. Call it cultural tradition, prestige, nostalgia, whatever.

Flyingchicken, your proposed conditions are pretty much like mine, but I haven't understood your last comment TBH.

 

[ijnavy]

I don't see a problem with adding to Byzantines full Empire on the 3000 BC start. Change Greece's and Egypt's last UHV and make them collapse right before the Byzantines spawn so that the cities can flip to them, or when the Byzantines spawn, Greece and Egypt automatically become their vassals.

 

[onedreamer]

do you realize that forcing 2 civs to collapse and changing their UHV to make room for one more is just .... hazardous ? It can be done much better in other ways.

 

[ijnavy]

or when the Byzantines spawn, Greece and Egypt automatically become their vassals.

I quoted myself. I don't see any other way to do it.

 

[onedreamer]

civs automatically becoming vassals is just as crappy as make them collapse, and it can't work if you are the player of those civs, as I already noted. We proposed how else it can work (much better), do you actually read replies ?

 

[ijnavy]

Actually I do read replies, but don't remember anyone suggesting to do it another way. I remember Edungeon saying that instead of making them a regular civ, you would never know where you would spawn (which is a good idea). If anyone has any other ideas, please post them.

 

[onedreamer]

check post #23

 

[ijnavy]

I think it wouldn't be hard at all to implement a Byzantine Civ. But given the peculiar historical conditions that led to the forming of such empire, I would program it so that it would only spawn if one of two cases:

1- Rome controls Byzantium.
2- Greece has collapsed.

Given these 2 conditions I don't see a problem with Byzantium. I don't know what it takes or how hard it is to script this, but given the amount of incredible changes Rhye has made to Civ4, I think it would be doable, no ?

Does this happen often? Wouldn't it be bad if you waited 15 minutes for the game to load, and then you did not spawn?

 

[onedreamer]

it would be 5 minutes. Yeah, it would be bad. You should probably just start with something else and then IF Byzantium appears, switch. Otherwise: 600 AD start.
The Roman AI can be programmed to be more likely to attack Greece (well, it already does but because of the many barbarians, it can't send many units to the front with Greece. Let's say Rome should be more able to sometimes defeat Greece then) which has 2 consequences: Greece likely to collapse and/or Byzantium likely to be Roman.

 

[ijnavy]

The Roman UHV could be changed instead of 2 cities in Carthage, 2 cities in Greece. Then, if Rome controls Constantinople (make the Greek AI build Constantinople with its second settler), Byzantium will spawn? Would the spawn area be Greece and Asia minor? There is a chance that they would not spawn, so you can either take that chance and start from the beginning, or you can switch from another civ.

 

[captain beaver]

Is anyone willing to actually do the coding work? It seems to me there has been thousands of "Make Byzantium playable" thread where people would debate for 5 pages about Is Byzantium:
a) Greek
b) Roman
c) Greco-Roman
d) all of the above
e) none of the above
We're already at 4 pages, not an ounce of work has been done and we're still debating theoritical points of view while the only relevant thing we want is: unlock the damn Byzantine in the 600ad start! At least, if this was civ 3, I could have done it myself...

 

[ijnavy]

It won't be easy. We need a couple of people who know python and probably Rhye's help. It's not as simple as unlocking them. You need to modify many many files. Who wants to help?

 

[flyingchicken]

^Pure BS. I did it easy. Just changed a singe character.

@captain beaver: If unlocked Byzantines is all we want, the following should be sufficient. A few errors, but after you click OK OK OK Byzantines are playable. No interior advisor, no stability (I think).

But hey, some people don't like stability either.

EDIT: Of course, if you want them to be a civ that's like all the others, well, you will need Rhye's help.

 

[ijnavy]

Why do you think that people didn't do this before? It's not that easy. I can't download it now, but did you put in the spawn date, the UHV, and the unique power? Don't we want the Byzantines to be a real civ? Everything has to be balanced to make the game playable with them. Lets try to make this the last thread to make the Byzantines a civ.

 

[flyingchicken]

What made you think I thought people hadn't done this before?

I'm just pointing out to Mr. captain beaver that "the only relevant thing we want is: unlock the damn Byzantine in the 600ad start!" is wrong.

 

[ijnavy]

What made you think I thought people hadn't done this before?

I meant that if it was so easy, it would of been done long ago.

I'm just pointing out to Mr. captain beaver that "the only relevant thing we want is: unlock the damn Byzantine in the 600ad start!" is wrong.

How about instead of arguing between ourselves, we can get some work done. Who here can mod in RFC?

 

[onedreamer]

The Roman UHV could be changed instead of 2 cities in Carthage, 2 cities in Greece. Then, if Rome controls Constantinople (make the Greek AI build Constantinople with its second settler), Byzantium will spawn? Would the spawn area be Greece and Asia minor? There is a chance that they would not spawn, so you can either take that chance and start from the beginning, or you can switch from another civ.

I wouldn't change the Roman UHV because it is clearly set to reproduce the Western Roman Empire, since the Roman Empire at its full extention (which was the original UHV) is practically impossible to achieve.

Greece was changed in the last version and now starts with 2 settlers. The second one almost always founds Byzantium.

As for the spawn area I'd do it all the way to Trabzon and Sur, but not Mesopotamia.