Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

And it made me think, i got annoyed at people bashing the show and wanting it cancelled. Me criticising civ 7 must annoy fans in a similar way, although i have always tried to make it clear it is down to taste.

Sure, but it's an unfortunate reality that comes with discussion, especially online. If someone feels too strongly and is letting the discussion get to them emotionally, sometimes it is best to walk away. Much easier to do online than in person.
 
I will say that I have started being more critical of Civ7 after having been initially much more positive - I am still playing it to death and enjoying it, but the things I enjoy aren't the 1/3 new (like ages or civ switching), it's the 1/3 improved (like no builders and army commanders). I guess I love them in spite of their flaws, and I still believe they can change for the better...

... Buuut it feels to me noticeable that the tenor of responses feels harsher if you are being critical - which makes sense to some degree, this is civ fanatics not civ haters... But still feels bad when it's coming from a place of wanting the game we love to succeed. I guess there are people who just want the game to flop out of spite, and it's hard to tell who is whom... but I think most of 7's critics are being honest and saying what they think needs to change for the game to succeed. I feel like I have to put a disclaimer that I do love the game every time I'm critical to avoid being rounded on.
 
To me the negativity i see in various social media sites has started to feel a bit like watching the world news every day, it can get depressing so i read less of it.

Yes there's been some changes that many people don't like but give it time and things usually get better.
 
Fwiw, I do think that having an expansion that includes "classic" civ aspects is worth the company's while. Yes it will cost considerable money, and success isn't guaranteed, but maybe the alternative is even more costly in the long run.
 
Fwiw, I do think that having an expansion that includes "classic" civ aspects is worth the company's while. Yes it will cost considerable money, and success isn't guaranteed, but maybe the alternative is even more costly in the long run.
Maybe there should be an extensive discussion on here how exactly that would look. I think it is realistic that we see a single-age mode in which all techs and civs are copied into antiquity, but this comes with many problems that need to be solved (resource generation and unlock/lock of mechanics and buildings, for example). If the CFC community could get behind 2 or 3 possible ways to tackle a classic mode in its entirety, that might be informative for a future rework. Not at all an easy task, especially as everybody has different preferences, but it might be more interesting and worthwhile than hoping that FXS will do it one day in their way and it will somehow be awesome from the start.
 
Maybe there should be an extensive discussion on here how exactly that would look. I think it is realistic that we see a single-age mode in which all techs and civs are copied into antiquity, but this comes with many problems that need to be solved (resource generation and unlock/lock of mechanics and buildings, for example). If the CFC community could get behind 2 or 3 possible ways to tackle a classic mode in its entirety, that might be informative for a future rework. Not at all an easy task, especially as everybody has different preferences, but it might be more interesting and worthwhile than hoping that FXS will do it one day in their way and it will somehow be awesome from the start.
Tbh I personally am not of the view that CFC can do that, nor that it would help if it tried ^^
 
Maybe there should be an extensive discussion on here how exactly that would look. I think it is realistic that we see a single-age mode in which all techs and civs are copied into antiquity, but this comes with many problems that need to be solved (resource generation and unlock/lock of mechanics and buildings, for example). If the CFC community could get behind 2 or 3 possible ways to tackle a classic mode in its entirety, that might be informative for a future rework. Not at all an easy task, especially as everybody has different preferences, but it might be more interesting and worthwhile than hoping that FXS will do it one day in their way and it will somehow be awesome from the start.
Some time ago I was thinking, how to solve problems, which Civ7 solved, while avoiding controversial features. The result was far from perfect and it definetely was impossible to make it at Civ7 expansion. I really think Civ7 will stay as it is, but as a mental exercise:

To solve the problem with late vs. early civ bonuses, the game need to move away from unique units and buildings (there still could be civilization specific visuals) toward unique bonuses. Unique improvements could stay as long as they are available from early game. By unique bonuses I mean something which affects, for example, all melee units regardless of their epoch.

To solve the problem with game pacing, I thought the concept of legacy paths or similar quests is more important than the ages themselves. So similar big quests (build X wonders, etc.) should still pop up and contribute to victory.

Distant lands are a decent idea, but their effect on map generation is devastating. I'd keep continents concept from Civ6/7 and make continent-specific resources which you could grab either through settling/conquering on other continents or through intercontinental trade, which could more difficult than regular trade to discourage turtling on home continent.

Balanced land in Civ7 is actually ok to me. Randomness still come from resources and not having trash starts sound good even for SP.

For MP, I'd make some scenarios which are as close to normal game as possible, but limited in time, similar to Civ7 ages. Probably built them on top of legacy path mechanics and modify map generation for more balanced play. Thinking of this, current Civ7 ages taken separately (I assume they'll come that way in the next patch) should be very close to MP-focused scenarios in this hypothetical game.

Finally, to battle snowball effect, some additional game mechanics need to be introduced. But instead of resetting progress for all, I'd push it for those who are behind. I.e. once any player discover rifles, all melee units for all civs are automatically upgraded to early gunpowder. Something like this.
 
Wheel of time, i grew up reading the series- i was obsessed and read the book series at least 20 times.
S1 and S2 were a bit rough (covid and actor leaving) but S3 was fantastic and i am utterly gutted.

And it made me think, i got annoyed at people bashing the show and wanting it cancelled. Me criticising civ 7 must annoy fans in a similar way, although i have always tried to make it clear it is down to taste.
Funny, I was about to mention the WoT show here. I think it's definitely a victim of the crapstorm. I believe fans unwilling to give it a chance kicked up enough of a fuss to create a miasma of negativity surrounding the show. In the end, nobody gets what they want. Some bookcloaks are celebrating the cancellation, many of them still hoping it will be remade in a manner that they like - potentially, according to them, using AI (lmao). Like most, I think there won't be another TV adaptation in the next few decades, if ever. Again, nobody gets what they want except those who want nothing but the originals (i.e. the books).

I think this confluence of business interest and fan backlash culture will continue to plague modern media and kill many franchises. And I've predicted that it will happpen to the Civ series at some point.

Be careful what you (the royal "you") wish for.
 
Finally, to battle snowball effect, some additional game mechanics need to be introduced. But instead of resetting progress for all, I'd push it for those who are behind. I.e. once any player discover rifles, all melee units for all civs are automatically upgraded to early gunpowder.
That sounds like a really good way to make research completely irrelevant as a game element, so I don't think that's the way to go.

But I do agree that science spill-over should play a much larger role in the game than it does. I.e. if you are the first to research something, it should be very expensive, while other civs should get much larger bonus towards researching something you know if they have trade routes to you or fight against your more advanced units (particularly if they defeat one of your advanced units should have a chance to give them a eureka towards specific military techs). The 1-2 science pr. turn you got from trade routes in previous games was just laughable.
 
But I do agree that science spill-over should play a much larger role in the game than it does. I.e. if you are the first to research something, it should be very expensive, while other civs should get much larger bonus towards researching something you know if they have trade routes to you or fight against your more advanced units (particularly if they defeat one of your advanced units should have a chance to give them a eureka towards specific military techs). The 1-2 science pr. turn you got from trade routes in previous games was just laughable.
The mechanics you're describing is in Civ games for a long time. The more civilizations discover a particular tech in Civ6, the cheaper this tech is for the rest of the civilizations.

It doesn't help much by itself, though.
 
The problem with science snowballing is deeper. The research is based on the science points: the more you generate, the faster you unlock new tech.

To get more science points, you settle near good yield tiles, build libs/unis, settle more cities, improve tiles, build, repeat. I don't see a meaningful way to fix it using the current system.

I can have some ideas which may be terrible, but anyway:

1. Instead of unlocking tech by science points, they could have constant research speed. The player chooses what tech to research, and it is unlocked after x turns. Give or take some modifiers to vary research speed, but it would be roughly the same for all civs.

2. Gating. To unlock new tech, you must meet certain requirements. To unlock more naval units, you must have a dockyard. Or own a specific resource. I think this is going to be bad for the AI.

3. Or make the first nation to unlock tech to receive boni. For example, when the first nation unlocks a tank, it gets a tank. When another nation unlocks tank tech, the first nation gets a small bonus to its existing tech.

4. Or, just merge the weakest civs if lagging too much behind. Perhaps the easiest and best solution for the AI.

Dunno :confused:
 
Well, for actual game the only real way to make things work is to try and test. Any anti-snowballing measures risk making early game meaningless, so they require careful balance.

Any ideas on how to handle this are good to try.
 
I think the most effective anti-snowballing mechanic in 7 is the settlement limit! Maybe make the happiness penalty for exceeding it increase so it starts off at 5/city but jumps up more sharply?

Overbuilding also strikes me as an issue with a single age mod/version. How awkward is that to add to the game? When shold obsolescence trigger?

Is a mechanical discussion something which should be im a separate thread?

To solve the problem with late vs. early civ bonuses, the game need to move away from unique units and buildings (there still could be civilization specific visuals) toward unique bonuses. Unique improvements could stay as long as they are available from early game. By unique bonuses I mean something which affects, for example, all melee units regardless of their epoch.
I've wondered the same. E.g. let all roman army commanders found cities, and give them legatus graphics in anriquity. The main problem is civs with UU belonging to types that only unlock in modern ers like Prussia or Meiji.
 
If the CFC community could get behind 2 or 3 possible ways to tackle a classic mode in its entirety, that might be informative for a future rework
I've long been thinking of a thread with the title

We will save Civilization VII . . . Together

The "together" a reference to Captain America in Age of Ultron: "Then we'll do that together."

I have an idea for a way of crowd-sourcing a master-mod for the game that undoes what I think has been its most off-putting feature, a plan that would draw on the collective expertise of the members of this community (not, by the way, modding skills--at least not at the outset--rather historical knowledge, interest in game design and a little thing called imagination).

Let me get a read of how many people might be up for that, if any at all.

I'd provide the starting idea, and from that moment, I would be out of my depth. But I trust that the collective wisdom of posters on this site could carry the project forward.
 
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I've long been thinking of a thread with the title

We will save Civilization VII . . . Together

The "together" a reference to Captain America in Age of Ultron: "Then we'll do that together."

I have an idea for a way of crowd-sourcing a master-mod for the game that undoes what I think has been its most off-putting feature, a plan that would draw on the collective expertise of the members of this community.

Let me get a read of how many people might be up for that, if any at all.

I'd provide the starting idea, and from that moment, I would be out of my depth. But I trust that the collective wisdom of posters on this site could carry the project forward.
Obviously it's an idea that comes from an honest and good place, but imo there is no way that an independent forum (moreover the main forum) dedicated to a game could really change the game in so direct a manner. Various prominent and very natural conflicts of interest :)
 
Obviously it's an idea that comes from an honest and good place, but imo there is no way that an independent forum (moreover the main forum) dedicated to a game could really change the game in so direct a manner. Various prominent and very natural conflicts of interest :)
Hm. I agree that there won't be a solution and the wished-for effect. But the discussion might be very interesting for us and potentially FXS.
 
Doubters!

There will be ground-rules to manage the conflicts, plus my own masterful shepherding of the thread.

The idea was conceived by someone fully aware of forum dynamics.
 
Doubters!

There will be ground-rules to manage the conflicts, plus my own masterful shepherding of the thread.

The idea was conceived by someone fully aware of forum dynamics.
I think a good place to start is identifying the "problems" that existed with Civ 6 and previous titles. I believe disagreement between Firaxis and much of the fanbase on what needed to be "fixed" is what led us to this point.

Once we identify those problems, we can find solutions and weigh whether the costs of these solutions are worth bearing.
 
I think a good place to start
I provide the start (as I've indicated).

One of the ground rules is that participants have to assent to my starting proposition.
 
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