Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

[TylertheDestroyer]

Exactly this! And to add, V and VI have both been on big sales many times. VII is still selling at shiny, new AAA price (though it did have a minor -15% sale earlier this month). So, a lot of potential players are probably priced out, too. Let's see what happens when VII gets some good sales later this year.

I find the daily tracking... amusing, I suppose. Of course, player counts are going to go down after launch. People move on to other games. They come back for patches (as you all saw), and then they move on again until the next big patch or DLC. So what?

All of the doom and gloom about the studio shutting down is just weird.

This argument doesn't make sense because V and VI had amazing launches. They didn't have to go on bargain bin sales to be succesful, they already had already easily outsold their predessecors' launch figures and those sales were typically to encourage people ot buy DLC.

Again VII launched with half the peak player count of its immediate preddesecor, has overwhelmingly negative user reception, and now has less players than a 15 year old title in the same series. What's even weirder than the reasonable doom and gloom after watching such a flop is trying to pretend that everything is sunshine and rainbows at Firaxis when they've pretty much already admitted that they need to go back to the drawing boards and listen to the community because the feedback at release was so negative. You don't have to do that when you release a succesful game people actually like.

 

[stealth_nsk]

This argument doesn't make sense because V and VI had amazing launches.

Civ5 was in much worse state on release than Civ7.

They didn't have to go on bargain bin sales to be succesful, they already had already easily outsold their predessecors' launch figures and those sales were typically to encourage people ot buy DLC.

Civ6 went on sale in 3 months after release, Civ7 - in 5 months.

 

[TylertheDestroyer]

Civ5 was in much worse state on release than Civ7.

In your opinion, according to both critics and most users it wasn't. V easily outsold its predessecor because many were hyped for the conversion to 1upt despite the early hiccups and faults with AI. V's playerbase didn't plummet to less players than Civ III and it was quickly able to improve itelf to a point where now its regarded as a highlight of the series..... VII couldn't outsell VI at launch and now has less players than V and has overwhelmingly negative user reviews.

The opposition to VII's design choices are much more visercal than the loud minority that whined about the move to 1UPT. We're talking about a flop, something you cannot say about V

Civ6 went on sale in 3 months after release, Civ7 - in 5 months.

I have no idea what you think we are supposed to infer from you pointing out that Civ had a 10% discount after 5 months... again I remind you, Civ 6 easily outsold its predessecor at launch. The "sale" (read: slight discount) didn't change that

 

[GeneralZift]

Moderator Action: *SNIP*...trolling removed. -lymond

Compare Civ7 which has more backing and money behind it, which is the newest 4X game so far, with some Humankind, Millenia and Old World and Ara.
This is like comparing a new Street Fighter release to knock-off titles from a couple years back.

Those games are somewhat derivative and they work off taking players off of Civ7 onto themselves.
Most if not all fans of HK, Millenia etc. etc. are CIV fans first and foremost.
(Not to discourage the very good effort that they are doing in innovating in the genre!)

Of course Civ7 will be doing higher numbers.
This doesn't mean that it is doing well relative to the series, or relative to predecessors in equivalent time, or that it has a healthy long-term plan (if it does, we are not wary to it, it will be in the Dev's hands)

I don't think the studio will shut down, and I don't necessarily think the game will fail 100%, but I think there is reason to be worried - the longer you go without fixing your game, the more people become genuinely discouraged with the 'idea' of Civ7 - it loses traction as a trend, people don't want to spend money on the DLC, and suddenly the lack of players snowballs into the lack of money which snowballs into the lack of content which snowballs into the death of the game!

I'm sure the developers are aware, and they're working on it, which is good.
I just think that the idea 'There is no problem and this is normal' is just wishful thinking...

 

[stealth_nsk]

In your opinion, according to both critics and most users it wasn't.

I was on this forum and remember how it was.

The opposition to VII's design choices are much more visercal than the loud minority that whined about the move to 1UPT

1UPT was welcome. The problem was in the amount of bugs and how untested the game was overall

I have no idea what you think we are supposed to infer from you pointing out that Civ had a 10% discount after 5 months... again I remind you, Civ 6 easily outsold its predessecor at launch. The "sale" (read: slight discount) didn't change that

I'm just stating facts. You said Civ6 didn't need sales and discounts to be successful, but it got a lot sales on Christmas discounts.

 

[Kwami]

I still have to digest the fact that a completely Digital game is being sold for about 80$ for the basic edition ... Steam or not Steam, digital was supposed to keep the costs of physical away...
Which comes to mind... how did they manage to break even with Civ I > II > III > IV . All of which had a physical box, floppies, CD, or DVD, and a big, hefty manual....???
And it never sold for more than 49$.... I once got Civ IV deluxe edition with all three expansions, manuals, all for 29$....

Well, inflation is a real thing. So, $80 today is worth as much as $48.44 was in 2005. The price of the game has stayed just about the same. The physical overhead is gone, but the Steam tax is something like 30%. And a game like Civilization has a much higher production cost than it did 20 years ago, too.

 

[Kwami]

I just think that the idea 'There is no problem and this is normal' is just wishful thinking...

I don't think anyone is arguing that, though. I just think that the level of doom around here isn't justified. The game is doing OK. Not great, but OK. It has a lot of great stuff to offer and it has room to grow. Future patches and DLC, plus sales, will probably bring in a lot of players. I don't think that's wishful thinking.

 

[Kwami]

1UPT was welcome. The problem was in the amount of bugs and how untested the game was overall

And how boring it was. The AI was so bad that you pretty much couldn't lose. But also, there just wasn't much to do. Civ V was a very simple game.

 

[GeneralZift]

I don't think anyone is arguing that, though. I just think that the level of doom around here isn't justified. The game is doing OK. Not great, but OK. It has a lot of great stuff to offer and it has room to grow. Future patches and DLC, plus sales, will probably bring in a lot of players. I don't think that's wishful thinking.

I mean like I said, if it continues on current trends, the game WILL die, so it's not that it's Doom --- Its people highlighting what you and I already agree on - the patches and DLC need to bring people back. If they don't, it's the end, because the base game is not good.

 

[GeneralZift]

I'm just stating facts. You said Civ6 didn't need sales and discounts to be successful, but it got a lot sales on Christmas discounts.

I remember this, and Civ6 was awful up until they started putting out the full expansions.
In fact I feel so much as to say I didn't enjoy Civ6 until they after they put out Gathering Storm (which had a lot of hype around it for bringing back the diplomacy stuff)
And lots of people constantly talked about how much better Civ5 was as a full experience prior to that.

 

[TylertheDestroyer]

I was on this forum and remember how it was.

I was also on the forum lurked and remember how it was. a vocal minority whinig did not change that V was a resounding commercial success and that V brought a whole new playerbase to the series specficially because of tactical combat/1upt. Where as VII drove players away with its changes

1UPT was welcome. The problem was in the amount of bugs and how untested the game was overall


I'm just stating facts. You said Civ6 didn't need sales and discounts to be successful, but it got a lot sales on Christmas discounts.

Yes the game released in a poor state lacking religion and with a broken AI unable to handle 1UPT. Most who purchased it could see the vision though which is why it outsold and easily outperformed its predessecor and why many were willing to wait for patches (which happened quickly) and expansions to ultimately fix and improve the game..... where as VII couldn't outsell VI and has less players than V currently

Are you starting to see the difference in levels of flop being discussed?

I'm just stating facts. You said Civ6 didn't need sales and discounts to be successful, but it got a lot sales on Christmas discounts.

No you're not stating facts you're coping. VI easily outsold V at launch and had a playerbase nearly double V's AT LAUNCH. it didn't need the slight discount you're bringing up to bring in a peak of 160k players.. VI was already a resounding success commercially before the slight 10% discount, it didn't need bargain bin sales to find success like VII apparently does

 

[Kwami]

NOT in Italy.

Firaxis, 2K, and Steam are all US companies. We were talking about the USD cost of games, which has been steady or even decreased over time. What does Italy have to do with it?

If pricing is off in Italy, then send Firaxis a message and let them know. When Civ VI launched, some of the non-US pricing was weird and to compensate, Firaxis/2K changed the prices and gave us all bonus civilizations in the DLC collection for free!

 

[AD1730]

NOT in Italy. Italy lost 50% of purchase value, all of it card industries has closed. Electricity bill doubled in just the past 10 years, Gas has quadrupled.
The average Italian has a car from the 90's, euro 0. Out of 60 mil people, 6 million lives BELOW the poverty line.
Our cars would sell for 4.000 Euro, then magically with the Euro the same crappy car costed 8.000 Euro, as much as a Volkswagen Golf.
Everyone started buying BMW and Golf. Fiat was bought by the French and Americans.
Out of 27 Eu countries only three do not have a minimum pay. Italy is one of those three. Which means even public jobs, will be taken by Moldovan or Romanian guys, that pay taxes abroad,
and pay their emplyers 2-5 eur/hour. No food, no Insurances.
inflation is real, yes, but it's the inverse squared here.
We are not Germany. WE have been sold to the bankers.
80$ today is close to 100$ back in 1998 and I'm not joking.
We did earn MORE in 1998 with the Lira than today with the Euro.
A 100K Lira I would do in two days of work. Today I need three days to make 50Eur, same job. (2K Lira=1Eur)
The same can happen to the Czech, but unlike us, they have people that pay taxes, and who steal go to prison.
Italy never put no-one in prison. They sold the Autobahns to some firms, the Genoa bridge collapsed because they didn't pay for maintenance, we have the
higher cost for 200Km road we pay 20 Eur.... and those freaks that killed 50 mens with the bridge collapse, it's been 4 years that the judge still haven't fined them or put anyone in jail...
And in the meantime, we still have to pay the robbery. PS: All of the roads in Italy has been payed by taxpayer money and resold to private firms in 2000, just 2 years after entering Euro,
bc the Italian State was collapsing...
Germany, all roads are free... Electricty still costs half of Italy, despite the war, and the minimum wage is 15 Eur. France is 11. Italy 4 Eur is considered the norm... but 2 Eur is also...
Running a small theatre electricity bills doubled from 10.000 a month to 20.000. Wonder how many Theaters closed down in the last 20 years? 90%... only those helped by the state survived.
Of course there are exceptions, like Amazon, or Coca-Cola, or Porsche... these big firms do not pay taxes in Italy, and if you get employed by them ( Or Ferrero Nutella, or Ferrari)
yes you are lucky. So it's not completely negative... it's just the average guy... inflation has worked in reverse...

And frankly I don't see countries like the USA really that much better... seeing how much it's for an Asthma inhaler over there... or a 6 packs of eggs...
I mean this inflation lie is a milestone of stupidity for the masses...
1 liter of water is still one liter of water, and it's still free. It hasn't become 0.98 liters...
In Italy Public water is free by our constitution...
How many public fountains do the average American city have per 1000 citizens?
Every park here has at least two fountains, one for human, one for dogs.
If there are no parks, there will be a fountain 100% near a church, and there are churches in every corner in Italy.

Idk where you live, but it's basically or China, Singapore, Switzerland, or Norway-Sweden >Germany-France where maybe inflation is true... in that
people now earns double what they did in 1998. The rest of the world has only got worst...

It's not a universal constant...
Every day, the elders will come down to the public fountain, and full six-liters pack of water.

Even in the UK, jobs have vanished thanks to the EU. The UK has basically collapsed thanks to the EU.
Italians don't go to the UK for vacation anymore. They don't go to the UK to study anymore.
And with the Brexit they made things worst. Before there was no import-export taxes from Italy to UK, now there are!!
A 10 Eur job in the UK is now worth 5 Eur, everything exploded in costs, the pay has remained stagnant.
Germany now pays MORE than UK for basic jobs.
Back in 1998 Germany pays were in line with France, Belgium, Netherlands... But the UK was two steps ahead...
Now the Pound is worth as much as the EUR... when before it was worth double the German Mark, and triple the italian Lira...
And the inverse is also true... UK citizens stopped coming to Italy for vacation... Now everybody was going to Spain...
Maybe bc Spain King didn't sell the entire country like the Italian politicians... but it's true...
Spain now has better pay and lower cost of living than Italy, which was the 9th economy in the world at the time...

It's not an Universal constant.
The only constant has been corruption.
Countries with no corruption, or laws that works ( US at least has laws that works) don't feel the hammer like the others.
The Major of Milan has just been found guilty of corruption, selling public spaces to private firms, to build skyscrapers, with public
money, public HOUSING being resold, pushing working people away from the city, driving rents up.
This is the only field (together with water) that the US is doing frankly worst than Italy. And the housing situation is sever in many European countries.
Ireland. Spain. Even Berlin is becoming a hotspot for the stupid-rich...
I rented a home in Berlin in 2006 for 200 Eur a month. 100Sq feet, with water, Electricity, and Internet. Near Mitte.
Good luck with that now.
PS: I had an "extra" job as a Translator and dubber for Movies (Tarantino Unglorious Bastards...) now it Google translate... or ChatGPT.
It was 50Eur for a full day transcript ( maybe even three days of work)... its gone... as in UK... certain jobs just don't exist anymore...


Digital download instead removed the barriers for many costs, no middleman, Steam 30% Tax is what a middleman would have took...
So it took the seller , shop owner, pay away, and replaced it.
Bt new the shop is instantly available to millions of people... really...
there's no reasons the price has gone up instead of going down....
the amount of surplus gains is unimaginable with the mind of 1998 entrepeneur...
The costs for logistics? Gone.
The costs for the inventory? Gone.
Packaging costs and theft, etc? Gone.

Do you really believe this?? I mean.. You could do this with the Dollar, or the English Pound, but in Europe we had Dracmas, Marks, Franks, Lira, Pesos... none exists anymore...
And certainly the Eur did not exist in 1990...
My parents could gift me a Nintendo SuperNES for 400Eur in 1990, Today it would be what 1600 Eur? Which parent would spend 1600Eur for a kid console today???

View attachment 737646


Italy, 1990: SuperNES was 399K Lire ( 200 EUR )

While the Game Boy had an average price of 150,000 lire, with the launch of the Super Nintendo, the price of the 8-bit NES dropped to 199,000 lire, while the shiny new Super Nintendo became the "flagship" machine, with a price tag ranging between 349,000 and 399,000 lire depending on the bundle offered. The flagship package included the Super Mario World cartridge, but bundles with other games, such as Super Mario All-Stars, were also released later.

In the USA it costed 199$, which is fine, considering 1$=0,5KLire... It's with the Euro that everything doubled... except we never got to earn like the average "Joe"....
Italy (and Greece) economies collapsed... instantly! Both countries were bought up by foreign investors, politicians included... (especially the economic... Draghi.. never heard of? The Master traitor?)

The Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) launched in the USA in 1991 with a price of $199. This price remained consistent with the launch of the SNES in Europe, which also occurred in 1991.

Question: Why should Americans subsidize Italian gamers? That's the consequence of what you are asking for.

 

[Brutus2]

Civ's biggest competition has always been itself. 5 only had to really compete with 4. 6 had to compete with 4 and 5. Now the player base is split between 4, 5, 6, and 7. The migration may have been quicker with earlier versions because the player base was not spread as thin. We now have subsets of the player based that have just locked into their favorite version and don't plan to ever switch. I just don't think 7's player counts being near or less than the previous games this early in it's life is that big of a deal.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Question: Why should Americans subsidize Italian gamers? That's the consequence of what you are asking for.

Edited: I deleted all the comments related to this inflation thing. back to the thread.... it was going too far...

 

[trev1972]

I noticed that the game did not go over 10k users on steam this weekend. There was a bump from the last patch but it doesnt seem to be a big or sustained one. This was despite the patch being a significant one.

I understand all the discussion about non steam sales, but i think without major changes and soon -this iteration is going to struggle to justify the expense of expansions.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I noticed that the game did not go over 10k users on steam this weekend. There was a bump from the last patch but it doesnt seem to be a big or sustained one. This was despite the patch being a significant one.

Many people are waiting for the next patch to start a new game.

 

[queenpea]

Many people are waiting for the next patch to start a new game.

Maybe? But there is a downward trend in player count, even if we have seen that descent slow down considerably.

 

[Nikolai II]

I play this game a lot, but I haven't played for over a week now due to the heatwave affecting Norway. It's just too hot.

 

[AD1730]

Maybe? But there is a downward trend in player count, even if we have seen that descent slow down considerably.

Based on the lack of interest in previous patches, I think it's fair to remove the "maybe" here.