Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

[Gorbles]

Its not a new game, not even close. You already have the engine, the combat mechanics, the units, the Civilizations, etc, etc

Removing Ages is more work than disabling civ switching, but it isnt a new game, not even close

Yes, it is basically new game, in terms of development effort. You can't just chop them out and expect the intended progression to remain the same. It would require an end-to-end reworking of unit progression (which has a knock-on effect to design), player strength scaling, AI routines, you name it.

There will likely be engine work required. There will likely be unit work required. There will likely be civilisation work required. I don't know how much, but then again neither do you, so.

Trying to nitpick Siptah's comment (bearing in mind they said "basically", not "exactly") by claiming "well actually, it's not a brand-new game" isn't the strong argument you seem to think it is. It would be a lot of effort. More effort than basically anything else. That's the point.

 

[stealth_nsk]

It is easier and cheaper to remove eras than to develop a new game. I wouldn't rule it out, but it is not going to happen now, if ever.

Its not a new game, not even close. You already have the engine, the combat mechanics, the units, the Civilizations, etc, etc

All civilization abilities will need to be reworked. Even engine will not work, because the current engine is designed for 2-building districts, which only work with overbuilding (otherwise buildings will eat too much space), which only works with age transition. And that's just scratching the surface

If you dive deeper into that has to be done to make game without age transition, yes that's effort comparable with making a new game.

 

[Kev1916]

A more cosmetic change than anything mechanically, humble pie for some, cheaper civlets ?

Death knell is ringing earlier than imagined or a fantastic climb down ?

 

[Gorbles]

A more cosmetic change than anything mechanically, humble pie for some, cheaper civlets ?

Death knell is ringing earlier than imagined or a fantastic climb down ?

It's really interesting how "listening to the players" is framed at times.

 

[sonicmyst]

A more cosmetic change than anything mechanically, humble pie for some, cheaper civlets ?

Death knell is ringing earlier than imagined or a fantastic climb down ?

At this point I do not know what else will please you.

 

[AD1730]

Optional civ switching is a step in the right direction and will help the storytelling player feel more connected to their civ. However, it doesn’t fix the game’s problem connecting with planners, whose issues largely flow from the ages mechanic. As someone who is more of a planner, optional civ switching is a welcome change, but doesn’t entice me to buy the game.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Optional civ switching is a step in the right direction and will help the storytelling player feel more connected to their civ. However, it doesn’t fix the game’s problem connecting with planners, whose issues largely flow from the ages mechanic. As someone who is more of a planner, optional civ switching is a welcome change, but doesn’t entice me to buy the game.

The age reset ruins things for the storytellers way more than just a civ switch does

You cannot seperate the two

 

[UWHabs]

Optional civ switching is a step in the right direction and will help the storytelling player feel more connected to their civ. However, it doesn’t fix the game’s problem connecting with planners, whose issues largely flow from the ages mechanic. As someone who is more of a planner, optional civ switching is a welcome change, but doesn’t entice me to buy the game.

As a planner, sure, the resets can be a pain sometimes, but at the same time, it's fun to have a little wrench thrown into the plans, and have another little planning session to set up the next era...

 

[stealth_nsk]

As a planner, sure, the resets can be a pain sometimes, but at the same time, it's fun to have a little wrench thrown into the plans, and have another little planning session to set up the next era...

I'm a planner and I totally embrace age transition. It's something which happens in a predictable way, so it's quite easy to incorporate into plans.

 

[marius_kaparius]

The age reset ruins things for the storytellers way more than just a civ switch does

You cannot seperate the two

Why does it ruin the storytelling? Why is something becoming something else not a story?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Why does it ruin the storytelling? Why is something becoming something else not a story?

Based on what I've seen on this forum, the problem for storytellers is the forced nature of this change.

 

[Gorbles]

The age reset ruins things for the storytellers way more than just a civ switch does

You cannot seperate the two

I'm also a storyteller kind of player, and yet you and I have very different opinions on transitions and history in layers. I'd ask that you please not speak for others.

While I think the mechanics are connected, improvements or changes to either one can be done in isolation so long as the impact on both is considered.

 

[aelf]

At this point I do not know what else will please you.

Nothing. Months ago on this very thread (and others similar to this), people were swearing up and down that all they needed was for players to be allowed to keep their civ. I predicted that they won't be satisfied because they've formed an opinion, and opinions are hard to change. They denied it.

And now here we are.

 

[UWHabs]

I'm also a storyteller kind of player, and yet you and I have very different opinions on transitions and history in layers. I'd ask that you please not speak for others.

While I think the mechanics are connected, improvements or changes to either one can be done in isolation so long as the impact on both is considered.

Yeah, what I do like about the transitions is that I basically have some choice in how to navigate them, based on how the game is going and how I feel. Do I stick to someone relevant to my civ or leader? Do I take a gameplay consideration? Does my land layout call for one civ more than another? How much story am I going for in the game? Which civs have I or haven't I played with recently?

 

[Leucarum]

The age reset ruins things for the storytellers way more than just a civ switch does

You cannot seperate the two

Well... Let's say Firaxis keep on introducing options to make the age transition smoother. Which it looks like they're doing. At what point does the age transition ship of Theseus itself out of existence?

With continuity mode the age transition is already just a block on going too far ahead on techs/civics and a loading screen... There's not that much more to remove.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Well... Let's say Firaxis keep on introducing options to make the age transition smoother. Which it looks like they're doing. At what point does the age transition ship of Theseus itself out of existence?

With continuity mode the age transition is already just a block on going too far ahead on techs/civics and a loading screen... There's not that much more to remove.

Just to list some things:
1. Age-specific gameplay elements. Things like religion are not designed to function outside of their age.
2. Age-specific civilization bonuses, also tied to age-specific gameplay features.
3. Overbuilding. The whole system of 2-building quarters is designed around the fact that ild buildings lose most of their appeal on age transition.
4. Tech/Civic masteries. They are designed for trees which don't have long term beelining goals, so people will have wide choice within the age. Not working with continuous techs as well.
5. Independent powers. Their current mechanics are made for one-direction progress with reset on age transition.
5. Resource allocation. Instead of gradual resource reveal from previous titles, Civ7 has full resource reset on ages.
6. Many more...

Actually the changes to make transition smoother so far are very cosmetic and don't touch anything of the age reset core.

 

[nakzox]

The good news for this thread is that any potential Civ-switching changes won't happen for a while, if they happen at all, so we still have a few more months of overanalyzing weekly reviews until then.

 

[stealth_nsk]

The good news for this thread is that any potential Civ-switching changes won't happen for a while, if they happen at all, so we still have a few more months of overanalyzing weekly reviews until then.

You sound like those changes would prevent anyone from overanalyzing the data.

 

[Crashdummy]

A more cosmetic change than anything mechanically, humble pie for some, cheaper civlets ?

Death knell is ringing earlier than imagined or a fantastic climb down ?

I agree its not optimal, but at least its something. I dont know if its enough, but its a good start. Maybe Ages wont feel as bad if we can actually build a Civilization to stand the Test of Time

I hate how immersion breaking Ages are, i think they were a terrible idea, but unfortunately they are here, and from the little information we have, they are intertwined very deeply in the game.Maybe they can smooth them so they have less impact.

I am trying to be positive with this, but i remain cautious too

 

[Crashdummy]

Just to list some things:
1. Age-specific gameplay elements. Things like religion are not designed to function outside of their age.
2. Age-specific civilization bonuses, also tied to age-specific gameplay features.
3. Overbuilding. The whole system of 2-building quarters is designed around the fact that ild buildings lose most of their appeal on age transition.
4. Tech/Civic masteries. They are designed for trees which don't have long term beelining goals, so people will have wide choice within the age. Not working with continuous techs as well.
5. Independent powers. Their current mechanics are made for one-direction progress with reset on age transition.
5. Resource allocation. Instead of gradual resource reveal from previous titles, Civ7 has full resource reset on ages.
6. Many more...

Actually the changes to make transition smoother so far are very cosmetic and don't touch anything of the age reset core.

A lot of this can happen with Ages like we used to have. You dont need Ages interrupting the game for that

The problem with Ages isnt their existence, we have had Ages for a long time. The problem is that they inteerrupt gameplay and make things change magically (like upgrading units)

Things like buildings becoming obsolete and overbuilding does not require such interruption, same with resources