Player's Guide to Complex Traits

[JosEPh_II]

Yeah and if 90% of them are prophets you will have a problem.


Wow. I admit my wife and I started playing mods a little later than some and we really played the hell out of vanilla BtS beforehand but Corps were nearly everything to our game play at that time. They are even more powerful in C2C. There are a lot of things you need to do just right to make corps work out well but when you do, nothing is more powerful in the game. Hands down. I suppose the game is usually decided by then with the AI we have right now though.

Another reason we have Options heh!

Why be forced to play something you don't like. Now if the AI can't handle Corps (as you suggest), then moreso the point of not using them in the game. Just like I see no point in using Rev to destroy the AI or your own Empire from within. We have the Espionage portion of the game for that. But even SgtSlick warned that it (Esp) is warped. I'll give him credit for that.

Guess my view of Good game play is more restrictive than others. Or I'm just more picky.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Now if the AI can't handle Corps (as you suggest)

They can handle corps alright... they can't compete to that far into the game usually is the thing. Corps are an Industrial/Modern and after thing and I have yet to play a game that isn't decided by then because the AI sucks in general. Mind you, I'm hearing of games that are now going that far so maybe there's enough improvement that it's starting to be an issue again, and I know we'll probably soon have the improvements needed to see it really start to go longer.

Why be forced to play something you don't like. Now if the AI can't handle Corps (as you suggest), then moreso the point of not using them in the game. Just like I see no point in using Rev to destroy the AI or your own Empire from within. We have the Espionage portion of the game for that. But even SgtSlick warned that it (Esp) is warped. I'll give him credit for that.

Guess my view of Good game play is more restrictive than others. Or I'm just more picky.

Are you advocating for the previously suggested 'No Corporations' Option again?

I know that's a project request that I'll probably end up fulfilling at some point, though I know my wife is interested in doing a lot of further devel work with corps and I'm personally wanting to make a few adjustments to the system as a whole and I also know that there are some resource issues that need to be addressed that are making corps both too penalizing and too powerful, though not like that's really a bad thing since the penalties are mostly in gold and by then that's probably somewhat welcome.

Espionage warped? I think there's a few spots in that system that are in need of some redesign for the sake of balance, sure. It might be a bit too powerful as it stands. Maybe. It's still rarely the most important thing for players so it's obviously not TOO out of balance.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Are you advocating for the previously suggested 'No Corporations' Option again?

I don't remember if I ever advocated that or not? I would say that maybe someone else asked for it and I agreed though.

But since they are never a factor in my games I had not thought about it. Especially since I rarely anymore get a game into the early Ren., much less Industrial era and on before I have to start a new one, it's been an out of sight out of mind sort of thing.

Once I have the Preh Era Civics settled and then I can get the Ancient and Classical Era Civics fully functional and cohesive, I'll be getting into mid Era games more frequently. Right now the Ancient and Classical Civics still allow gold to accumulate somewhat fast (but not as fast as it was).

I have a test game in early Med Era that I'm getting right at 2700 Gold/turn and running a treasury between 40 and 50 K. It would be higher but I've been buying lower level techs from the tech Leaders so I'm not running 2 full eras behind in research without Tech D or any other Research boost option being On. No boosts for anyone, just AI vs player on Emperor Handicap. I do have to maintain a big army though to keep from being invaded. So there is that cost for me. 8 Empire game on a large C2C_World map start everywhere settings with low seas. Pangea break On.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I do have to maintain a big army though to keep from being invaded.

That's kind of an interesting quirk of the current AI issues that's maybe a problem maybe not. Interesting is all I can call it really. It makes the game harder that's for sure.

 

[JosEPh_II]

That's kind of an interesting quirk of the current AI issues that's maybe a problem maybe not. Interesting is all I can call it really. It makes the game harder that's for sure.

Is this really just a hidden ploy by you to eventually make everyone use Size Matters? I would bet that it is, it fits you and your design agenda. So…. When, and not If, you force everyone into that way of playing you know I'll not go peaceably or quietly.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is this really just a hidden ploy by you to eventually make everyone use Size Matters? I would bet that it is, it fits you and your design agenda. So…. When, and not If, you force everyone into that way of playing you know I'll not go peaceably or quietly.

Actually there are still many mysteries to how the AI works in a lot of places and I think that once we debugged something earlier, we suddenly had a surge of things working more like they were intended, which meant that numbers that kept getting turned up because they were too low are now astronomically high because they matter again. Suffice it to say, no, this is not part of the plan. Very little in the AI is part of any plan I would want - even much I've done isn't quite working right.

 

[tmv]

Very little in the AI is part of any plan I would want - even much I've done isn't quite working right.

And this is what a conspiracy must look like from the other side.

 

[Thunderbrd]

And this is what a conspiracy must look like from the other side.

lol
Yeah, I'm not nearly so passive-aggressive that if I wanted to make something happen I wouldn't just do it or argue hard for it straight up. That said, on a mass public scale, there ARE things the masses won't accept in their ignorance and often needs to be done more delicately. I mean, it's not like we don't know that some major conspiracies HAVE taken place - like the CIA assisting in the import of Columbian drugs into the US so as to tax the US for a war we wouldn't have openly supported giving to by taking it from the black market.

 

[tmv]

That said, on a mass public scale, there ARE things the masses won't accept in their ignorance and often needs to be done more delicately.

Yes, but more often than not you shouldn't trust politicians - of all professions - with that kind of power. Otherwise, why was tea thrown into the water in the first place?

I mean, it's not like we don't know that some major conspiracies HAVE taken place - like the CIA assisting in the import of Columbian drugs into the US so as to tax the US for a war we wouldn't have openly supported giving to by taking it from the black market.

Yes, some have taken place. Again, the number of people "in the know" is the key (when the - alleged or actual - conspiracy is taking place, of course).

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes, but more often than not you shouldn't trust politicians - of all professions - with that kind of power. Otherwise, why was tea thrown into the water in the first place?

Agreed.

Yes, some have taken place. Again, the number of people "in the know" is the key (when the - alleged or actual - conspiracy is taking place, of course).

I don't buy that... there were a LOT of people 'in the know' on that matter and it went unexposed until a decade or two later. Secret societies can maintain tight oath-bound security with layers of need-to-know info for generations and have proven to be capable of that.

I mean, sure to some extent there's truth to that perspective. Your point about the Moon landing is a good one and I think that's a hilarious 'conspiracy'. But for a lot of modern 'conspiracies', it's actually pretty obvious its happening if you can tell the difference between what sources are accurate and which ones are throwing gaslighting into the mix. You have plenty of people talking about their experiences at Area 51, for example, but few are believed.

 

[tmv]

layers of need-to-know info

That's a key point. When I say "in the know", I mean "completely in the know".

You have plenty of people talking about their experiences at Area 51, for example, but few are believed.

It's actually not that easy to evaluate such witness accounts. How do you make sure that these accounts are independent from each other (ideally without one knowing about the other)? Only then can you avoid a lot of pitfalls. There are many ways in which even well-meaning people can end up making claims that are not their own (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments).

By the way, here are a few more: https://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_2562_12-weirdly-plausible-conspiracy-theories-we-just-made-up/

 

[Snofru1]

I´d suggest to have this thread being pinned before it gets far down the list again ...

 

[Thunderbrd]

May well need to talk to the management to request that...

 

[strategyonly]

that has to be approved by ME first, thx. . .

 

[Thunderbrd]

Sounds like you don't? Doesn't really matter, it's linked to in the Player's Guide as a whole anyhow. Though an occasional bump is nice.

 

[strategyonly]

well it actually does .. .do u want me to add u to the list also??

 

[Thunderbrd]

well it actually does .. .do u want me to add u to the list also??

Sure thanks!

 

[strategyonly]

ok ur added. . .

 

[Thunderbrd]

So do you feel this thread would be good to sticky?

 

[strategyonly]

it already is . . .