Playing last night....[nukes]

[CornMaster]

...and the grand Alliance of the Aztecs, Americans, and Greeks were about to wipe the Mali off the earth. In an attempt to shock and Awe them...5 nukes were dropped, (several at one time) and everyone was blocked.

I was thinking about a mod before, but now I'm sure it's a good idea.....basically the Manhattan Project should not be a global wonder. Instead a Nuclear Program should be a small wonder. When the US built the bomb...they didn't give the plans to everyone else.

SDI also comes too early and is FAR too effective. I say reduce it's effectiveness to 50% and move it farther down the tech tree..like Future tech or something.

Nuclear weapons were not used much in the real world because of their excellent role as a deterrent, not because people became impervious to them. I'm also toying with making SDI require the Nuclear Program to be built first. Although...I'll probably leave Bomb Shelters as they are...maybe lower their effectiveness a little too...

Does anyone else think this is a good idea?

 

[enchanter100]

I do, nukes are useless in my opinion as they are now.

 

[gotmatt]

I was thinking about a mod before, but now I'm sure it's a good idea.....basically the Manhattan Project should not be a global wonder. Instead a Nuclear Program should be a small wonder. When the US built the bomb...they didn't give the plans to everyone else.

the USSR stole the nukes from the US... speculation as to how has ranged the political spectrum from Ex-Nazi double agents to communist moles in the state department. if the US did not discover nukes,the USSR would not have as soon either. and if Hitler didn't start the whole process rolling the US and USSR would not have had the idea to try!!

it's strange, but i do agree with all the other stuff, however sientists in the modern age are more free with their research. maybe it should depend on civics??

if you have a more autocratic system in place (no free speech or emancipation, nationhood and police state civisc... maybe even theocracy). than you aren't going to "share" the bomb... but if you have the "free world" traits, then other civs should get it too...

 

[automator]

I just wish SDI were a world wonder. Thought it was a few games back. I was making a killing in the game, going for a domination win, but Germany and Spain made a late game alliance and started building a ship. I could've started a ship then and still won (I had the space elevator and they had no aluminum), but I'm tired of space wins.

So I had SDI and was building about four nukes per turn. Sent four attack forces to Germany and Spain (two each). Dropped nukes, two for each city I was to attack, then one in each nearby city.

All but one were fizzled by the SDI. Crap.

 

[SPQR300]

SDI should be moved much much later. And the Manhattan project should be a national wonder, for the first person it would cost 1500hammer, then 1000, then 700 etc... Oh and a free first nuke should come with researching it. Bomb shelters make absolutely no sense in the game this way. They are too cheap, and too efficient, so they are a must-have once someone has buildt the MP. They should be ~300hammer, and should only protect the population and the armies stationed inside a little bit (50% for example). Then it would be a real decision to the player to build them or not, a real gameplay element, not only a must have building.

 

[gotmatt]

SDI should be moved much much later. And the Manhattan project should be a national wonder, for the first person it would cost 1500hammer, then 1000, then 700 etc... Oh and a free first nuke should come with researching it. Bomb shelters make absolutely no sense in the game this way. They are too cheap, and too efficient, so they are a must-have once someone has buildt the MP. They should be ~300hammer, and should only protect the population and the armies stationed inside a little bit (50% for example). Then it would be a real decision to the player to build them or not, a real gameplay element, not only a must have building.

what about a 30% chance of nuclear waste or radiation for constructing it in the first place? there seriously had to have been a chance for some REALLY bad consequences when the US was testing in the Nevada/New Mexico deserts.

 

[CornMaster]

What I originally wanted, was the Manhattan Project to be a world wonder...but when someone builds it, then a National Wonder is enabled for everyone else. The world wonder builder would get a free nuke, and the national wonders would cost less to show the knowledge spread. However, that may be too complicated to code, and it would also penalize all the civs that were building Manhattan before the one built it. So that's why I altered my plans a little.

Just need to figure out how to write a mod now...

 

[Ogrelord]

Yea i want to play a rogue nation where i only have 3 cities which people are starving. I have no ressources. I have sacrifice the population so i can have my 3 nukes. Forget the United Nations, i don't want to fallow their civics, burn the no-nuclear proliferation treaty. Now i dare the leading nations to attack me, they are going down if i go down.

In civ4, there is a little Kim Jong Il in all of us

 

[Sir 37mm]

My own idea for a ‘true nuke’ mod… would be to combine bomb shelters & air raid shelters but have them as a series of buildings each more expensive than the previous.

Simple bomb shelters: -25% damage, perhaps five hundred shields (epic)
Multiple bomb shelters: additional -25% damage, perhaps one thousand shields
Complex bomb shelters: additional -25% damage, perhaps two thousand shields

Or/and perhaps a ‘survival’ civic which could give you defensive bonuses, a quicker ability to clean up nuclear waste etc... but at high cost

This way if you wanted to you could make your nation pretty resistant to nuclear attacks but it’d be costly to your economy rather than some cheap upgrade.

Obviously SDI should be allowed only later (and even then it’s interception chance reduced).

 

[gmanne]

The effect and consequences of global nuclear warfare should be shocking and appalling. (And fun!) At present, most players hardly give them a second thought because the 'counters' are far too strong. Diplomacy is hardly affected either. I can remember when the following, 'Our words are backed by Nuclear Weapons!', was a genuine threat! And, as we all know, the AI actually used the things.

Civ 4 needs a few tweaks, this is certainly one of them

 

[Zekrazey1]

The problem with all the 'nukes are weak and need to be improved' arguments is that they fail to consider the ability of players to make it a priority to acquire and use them. If at some point you go "hey look, nukes, I'll guess I'll build some"', then most likely they'll be ineffective. With a bit of planning it's possible to create a large enough window of opportunity in which they'll do significant damage.

 

[Dairuka]

Nuclear Weapons are invaluable on higher difficulty levels. Especially if you're in the middle of a Space Race, and the people who're in the lead weren't smart enough to build the SDI on the side.

You can just pelt their major cities with the occasional nuke to completely destroy any and all production.

Certainly more effective than wasting production and money on a spy that may never work.

 

[HawkeyeGS]

While the window is very small you can 'blow' the window open significantly. Having a nuke droped on you will take your mind off research or building SDIs (not to mention extending your dynasty another generation). Well it will make you think about it a lot more really but there will be significantly less hope of you building it if you are being nuked once every 3 turns. So like Zekrazey1 said with a bit of planning they are devestating.

With all that said there is a serious need for tweaking in the area. I mean read the civlopedia and it says quite clearly that bomb shelters would be of no use in the event of a nuclear exhange. The SDI needs to be a lot later and a lot less effective. The non-poliferation resolution (along with the others) needs to be optional. Also there needs to be different WMDs like the only 2 nukes used were from planes not ICBMs.