Please add the Africans as a Culture Group!

[Lockesdonkey]

I will make this brief: I am an Egyptian by ancestry, an American by birth, but my mother grew up in Zambia (long story) and I have Ethiopian and Sudanese ancestors. Considering that we are all African anyway, and my connection just happens to be closer, and the fact that there were great African empires, well why not add them! So, without further ado, my list:

Zulu: Identical to Civ3, except with Abrie JF Killian's city names.

Mali
You could run this one or Songhay; it doesn't matter except for leader name. I can't name any Songhay leaders off the top of my head, so I'll use Mali
Mali:
Commercial and Religious
King Mansa Musa
Agression: low
Preferred Gov.: Monarchy (No, duh)
Sunned gov.: This one's tough at first, but then merchants don't exactly like Marx. So the shunned should be Communism
Favored Religion: Islam

Ethiopia (Abyssinia)
This one was suggested earlier, but I'll add some stuff:
Militaristic and Commercial (please note: most african civs concentrated on trade, so most will have commercial)
Negus Ezama (the one who converted to Christianity and then kicked Nubia's ass)
Agression: high (but not very high)
Preferred gov: Monarchy (again, duh)
Shunned gov: Communism (again, but makes sense considering trade emphasis)
Preferred Religion: Christianity

Hausa
I dont know this one that well, but they were the big traders in Central Africa.
Industrious and Commercial
Find your own damn leader
Agression: low
Preferred gov: was collection of city-states, so Feudalism or Republic
Shunned gov.: ummm... see above
Preferred Religion: Islam
Alternately, this one could be Kanem and Bornu, in which case leader would be King Umme Jilme and agression medium

Ashanti
Industrious and Agricultural
Find your own damn leader
Agression: medium
Preferred gov:Monarchy or Feudalism
Shunned gov: Facism
Preferred Religion: I don't know.
Capital should be Kumasi.

 

[mitsho]

agree completely IF they stay with culture groups.
But in general, more African civs are really really a must. I don't think the Zulu can represent all African civs as the Iroquois do with North America (and imo they are enough for the main game). But Africa really needs some improvement.

mfG mitsho

 

[Carver]

Agree completely, and I like your civ suggestions.

 

[Admiral8Q]

What about Benin? I suggest this because I've actually lived there before

Dahomey/Benin

Leader: Kérékou

Characteristics: Scientific & Commercial

(In the 1800s the French sashayed in and gained control of the coast, making the kingdom of Dahomey part of French West Africa. Named the 'Latin Quarter of West Africa', Dahomey became famous over the next century for its educated elite, employed as regional advisors. This education process backfired on the French; the locals became vocal and began agitating for equality. They even published a newspaper critical of the French.)

Special Unit: Warrior Women (Amazons)
Although warfare is typically conducted by men, in various places and at various times women have fought bravely and well, and in the West African kingdom of Dahomey during the 19th century, they formed the elite corps of a successful army. Many European visitors to Dahomey commented favorably on their military bearing, finding them more impressive in discipline and maneuver than male Dahomean soldiers.

Aggression Level: *----

Favorite Government: Communism

After World War II the people of Dahomey modernised rapidly, forming trade unions and political parties. In 1960, and without much fuss, Dahomey attained independence from France. Due to their education, many Dahomeyans were running administrations throughout French Africa. Following independence, these officials were deported en masse, forming an unstable presence at home. In 1963 this boiled over into a successful military coup. For the next nine years Benin became the Bolivia of Africa. There were five coups, nine changes in government and five different constitutions. With typical wry humour, the locals refer to this time as le folklore. Despite all of this upheaval, the famous civil nature of the Fon people triumphed. No leader was ever killed, and when the army deposed General Soglo in 1967 they politely knocked on his door and told him, 'You're through'.
The pleasantries didn't last long. In 1972 Lt Col Mathieu Kérékou seized control, renamed the radio station 'the voice of the revolution' and fuelled anti-white sentiment. Marxism became the official ideology of the newly named Benin in 1974. Private industry continued to flourish.

Shunned Government: Despotism
Not sure on this one.

Culture Group: African?

City Production Emphasis: Science, Trade

A summary:
History - The African kingdom of Dahomey originated in Benin. By the 17th century, the kingdom, ruled by an oba, stretched beyond the borders of present-day Benin, covered a large part of West-Africa. The kingdom was prosperous and established slave trading relations with the Europeans (mostly Portuguese and Dutch) who first arrived in the late 15th century. By the 18th century, Dahomey started to fall apart, enabling the French to take over the area in 1892. In 1899, the land became part of the French West Africa colony, still as Dahomey. In 1958, it was granted autonomy as the Republic of Dahomey, and full independence followed in 1960. A turbulent period followed independence, and there were several coups and regime changes before control was seized by Mathieu Kérékou. He established a Marxist government, and the country was renamed to the People's Republic of Benin. By the late 1980s, Kérékou abandoned Marxism and decided to re-establish democracy. He was defeated in 1991 elections, but proved victorious again in the 1996 vote.

 

[dexters]

Good suggestions. More civs, more culture groups, more unique civ/culture specific buldings are always welcome in my books.

 

[Admiral8Q]

Interesting, the Warrior Women of Dahomey were refered to by the French as Amazons!

When France invaded Dahomey in the early 1890s, their superior
weapons won the war, but all those French officers and men who wrote about their bloody battles against Dahomey declared not only that these women warriors were superior to male Dahomean soldiers, but also that they were the equals of the French. Robert B. Edgerton describes the history of these "Amazons" (as they became known) and their recruitment, training, and battle experience.

 

[Abrie JF Kilian]

I’m glad that people are enthusiastic to broaden the African representation.

Thanks for the support. I Appreciate it.

Just a few questions to Lockesdonkey:

1) Why have the Zulus in Civ3 without the true Zulu city names? It is a bit ridiculous to play the Zulus, but every time when you build a Zulu city, you know that it’s not true. It’s almost like adding New York to the English city name list. I just don’t make sense.
2) The Afrikaners have added greatly to South Africa’s impressive infrastructure, making it the African country with some of the most spectacular development on all spheres. Recently in the Pan African Parliament it was said that South Africa should not represent Africa on the UN Security Council for the simple fact that its development was greatly thanked to the so called Europeans (Afrikaners – which is not a European culture but a African culture). Why not support this vibrant young culture? It will add to the white African representation, which makes up a 25% of South Africa population.

Yours Sincerely

PS. Dont high-jack this discussion!

 

[Philips beard]

Bah! Who wants to play those african tribes anyway? Perhaps they are good to have there for colonization scenarios?

 

[Lockesdonkey]

1) Why have the Zulus in Civ3 without the true Zulu city names? It is a bit ridiculous to play the Zulus, but every time when you build a Zulu city, you know that it’s not true. It’s almost like adding New York to the English city name list. I just don’t make sense.

I meant to say that we should use your list of city names.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Sorry, double post.

Bah! Who wants to play those african tribes anyway? Perhaps they are good to have there for colonization scenarios?

Idiot! Songhay and Mali were the source of the gold that funded the Renaissance, you twit! They are vital nations to world history.

http://www.cross-x.com/vb/showthread.php?t=948070 Go to post #19, and don't be shocked if you see swearing; it's a debate website where we are almost all high-school and college students, and all Americans. So swearing and posting while drunk or stoned are par for the course. So are fierce intellectual left-right debates. Do not take this as an invitation to join, though. We don't like non-debaters on our site.

 

[Philips beard]

Sorry, double post.



Idiot! Songhay and Mali were the source of the gold that funded the Renaissance, you twit! They are vital nations to world history.

Hehe, well, can't see the great impact on todays society! Well my point is that if there is just going to be 16 CIVs, two african is more then enough!
Egypt is a must, the second one may be discussed, Mali, Chartago, Ethiopia, Mali, Nubia or the Zulus i guess!

 

[mitsho]

@abrie JF Killian I was always in favor of having the Boers/Afrikaners (Boers sounds more logical to me) as a civ in. But the thing is that they are just too similar to the Dutch. meaning, you can't have both of them in such a small game.
There would be a solution if we take a step away from the civilizations only and allow subgroups (minor civs in addition to barbarians). But that's a completely different question/subject.

@philips_beard Are you serious? Because otherwise I see no reason to include those barbaric norsemen. Because they did nothing else than the Africans. And just remember, everything you learn in Europe is from a european point of view, everything you learn in Spain is in a spanish point of view, and so on. There is NO global point of view. And therefore, you have learnt nothing in School about Africa (let's put Egypt aside for the moment), but does that mean they have nothing accomplished? NO, I give you an advice: Take your history book and look at africa OR take a historical map of Africa and look at it OR go to www.wikipedia.com and so on. Believe me, it will be interesting.

(and this says someone who doesn't know much about Africa himself, ...)

mfG mitsho

PS: And btw. if you know it and still say it doesn't interest you, you probably are a normal European youth/teen or older person. And from the economical point of you I got to admit, it probably won't be very profitable for Firaxis to include many African civs, but nevertheless....

EDIT: Got to edit in to answer your next post: First, Egypt is in, but this is not an African civ, but a mediterranean. Secondly, the Zulus are in, because it's a civ-tradition. But there should still something be in that is more historical. Besides, what makes you think that there only will be 16 civs? civ3 has 31,

 

[Philips beard]

@abrie JF Killian I was always in favor of having the Boers/Afrikaners (Boers sounds more logical to me) as a civ in. But the thing is that they are just too similar to the Dutch. meaning, you can't have both of them in such a small game.
There would be a solution if we take a step away from the civilizations only and allow subgroups (minor civs in addition to barbarians). But that's a completely different question/subject.

@philips_beard Are you serious? Because otherwise I see no reason to include those barbaric norsemen. Because they did nothing else than the Africans. And just remember, everything you learn in Europe is from a european point of view, everything you learn in Spain is in a spanish point of view, and so on. There is NO global point of view. And therefore, you have learnt nothing in School about Africa (let's put Egypt aside for the moment), but does that mean they have nothing accomplished? NO, I give you an advice: Take your history book and look at africa OR take a historical map of Africa and look at it OR go to www.wikipedia.com and so on. Believe me, it will be interesting.

(and this says someone who doesn't know much about Africa himself, ...)

mfG mitsho

PS: And btw. if you know it and still say it doesn't interest you, you probably are a normal European youth/teen or older person. And from the economical point of you I got to admit, it probably won't be very profitable for Firaxis to include many African civs, but nevertheless....

EDIT: Got to edit in to answer your next post: First, Egypt is in, but this is not an African civ, but a mediterranean. Secondly, the Zulus are in, because it's a civ-tradition. But there should still something be in that is more historical. Besides, what makes you think that there only will be 16 civs? civ3 has 31,

I agree, if there is only 16 civs in the game, the Vikings must out!

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Hehe, well, can't see the great impact on todays society! Well my point is that if there is just going to be 16 CIVs, two african is more then enough!

Yes you can! The Renaissance occured in the way it did. The Italian cities and the monarchs with whom they traded got the gold from Africa. Technological advance money have been slower if the likes of Leonardo's patrons didn't have enough money to pay their inventors.

 

[Philips beard]

Yes you can! The Renaissance occured in the way it did. The Italian cities and the monarchs with whom they traded got the gold from Africa. Technological advance money have been slower if the likes of Leonardo's patrons didn't have enough money to pay their inventors.

I think this simplification is a huge underestimation of the strength of european culture, and it's will to change the world!

 

[mitsho]

@philips you don't have to cite me if I'm right in front of you. But well , I feel honoured. And now I should really work

 

[Lockesdonkey]

I think this simplification is a huge underestimation of the strength of european culture, and it's will to change the world!

Read the link, you moron!

 

[Admiral8Q]

Read the link, you moron!

You're the moron, don't you know that history didn't really start until 1492?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hey guys, lets just steady on there and NOT resort to name-calling. That is truly beneath ALL of us. For my part, I think that there SHOULD be an African Culture group, and that those African nations which are not represented as major civs, could still be in as minor civs-much as could be the case for European, American, Asian and Middleastern culture groups.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Admiral8Q]

Definately

I'm suprised there never was an African cultural base of Civs made