Please Ban the Hammer Stacking Technique

[Kaitzilla]

I'm starting this thread to officially ask the powers-that-be to add "Hammer Stacking" to the list of banned/exploit items for HOF games.

It is a very gamey way to ignore hard coded overflow limits and effortlessly build up Hammer totals to complete any late-game Wonder or Space Part in 1 turn. (once the required tech is completed)
This allows Space Race games to be completed many turns earlier than would otherwise be possible without extreme planning/effort using forests and whips.

The technique is outlined here:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-10-year-veteran.574724/page-29#post-14718921
Further refining of the technique revealed that the hammer overflow limit could be exceeded every single turn by building a unit and then pillaging the required resource so the unit couldn't be built.
Very quickly, a player can reach the absurd result of having 1000 overflow from the previous turn.

Spoiler :

Others on the forums also appear to support to removing this.

All kidding aside, I think this new trick (holding hammers things you don't have the resource for) is broken. I expect it to be banned and I support the ban.
I will go ahead with my original plan to complete all space parts before or on the turn after I get the last tech, Ecology.
That might require a couple forests which I'm not sure I'll have on this map. We'll see.

I wholeheartedly hope it will be. Otherwise people who play normally can forget about competing against those who take advantage of such exploits. Kinda like trying to win by culture and getting destroyed by spy culture games. Yes, I know those have been separated in the HoF now, I merely use it as another impossible-to-compete-with case.

And a PM:

Certainly, the game has intentionally-programmed Overflow Hammer limits, i.e. as you discovered, the higher of the COMPLETED build item's cost in Base Hammers (aka Final Hammers divided by the multipliers) or the amount of base Hammers that the City can output in a single turn, whichever is bigger.

This Overflow Hammer limit was put in place intentionally, and even removes Forest Chops, so we can proceed with the belief that it was intentionally designed to be a hard cap on Hammer Overflow.

Meanwhile, the "not spending" of Hammers on a build item that does not get completed feels more like the game "being nice to newbies or inattentive players," say, when one switches out of Organized Religion while forgetting about the fact that certain Cities won't have the corresponding Monasteries and thus won't be able to complete their Missionaries.

Where the behaviour turns into what I would dare to call an exploit is when a player intentionally chooses a build item that the player knows will no longer be selected at the end of the turn, for the explicit purpose of stacking Unspent Hammers and/or Overflow Hammers in order to get around the game's designed Overflow Hammer limits.

So in conclusion, please ban "exceeding the overflow cap by purposely building units that can't be completed".
It hurts legit Space Race records.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

How would you word the ban?

 

[Kaitzilla]

How would you word the ban?

The GOTM forums have instituted a ban here:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/list-of-allowed-disallowed-exploits-strategies.152399/

I would word it to say:
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php?show=disallowed

Hammer Overflow Cap Exploit
It is possible to exceed a city's maximum production overflow through repeated use of building units that are unable to be completed.
This effectively allows Spaceship parts to be built before their technology is researched, and it is banned as an exploit.

 

[lymond]

tip of hat

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

How does one detect such an exploit?

Although this exploit should no doubt be banned, I'm against banning any exploit that can't be automatically detected.

The only exceptions are undetectable exploits that that give the player an insurmountable advantage.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I've added the wording on this to the banned list. In general I agree with you STW that we should only ban things that can be automatically detected however it is clearly the consensus that this exploit gives an unsurmountable advantage.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I agree with Kaitzilla's wording. I was just expressing my distaste for banning exploits that can't be automatically detected.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I've added the wording on this to the banned list. In general I agree with you STW that we should only ban things that can be automatically detected however it is clearly the consensus that this exploit gives an unsurmountable advantage.

Thanks NobleZarkon!

 

[Dynamic]

The same method works in Civ5 too... I just check it.

 

[Kaitzilla]

The same method works in Civ5 too... I just check it.

I can't believe it showed up in more than one game.
Can it speed up victories a bit in Civ 5 too?

 

[Dynamic]

Yes, it allows speed up the late Wonders or SS Parts as well. But in Civ5 this method requires more conditions for use. I didn't know about it before your article and I doubt anybody knows. But I picked up the conditions for verification and mathematically it works. In Civ5 there are 3 main ideologies (part of civic system). For 2 of them (Freedom and Order) this method isn't significant because there is ability (civic) for speeding up SS Parts by Gold or Great People. For third (Autocracy) it could be useful. But I doubt somebody will play Autocracy for SS games (at least in HOF). So it's just interesting fact about inheritance in game development.