This is my normal first priority for policies - it's a huge research boost. I think it's actually better for a non-NC start than for an NC start, though; you're going to have to wait for your cities to catch up at some point anyway and the NC will put you so far ahead in tech that you're just researching things you won't be able to use for a while. If you can't use the things you're researching because your cities haven't caught up, you're not really getting ahead.
Please explain the "NC Start"
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This is my normal first priority for policies - it's a huge research boost. I think it's actually better for a non-NC start than for an NC start, though; you're going to have to wait for your cities to catch up at some point anyway and the NC will put you so far ahead in tech that you're just researching things you won't be able to use for a while. If you can't use the things you're researching because your cities haven't caught up, you're not really getting ahead.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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Civil Service if you can bypass Calendar, otherwise Theology. I'll have a much more detailed post for you all soon (it covers all of the opening strategies I've worked out for .217 so far), but what you listed is the general idea. I don't really bother with early Research Agreements in that gameplan, though. NC first + early Scholasticism does such naughty things to the early tech tree that you don't need early RAs. You're better off buying Culturals and Maritimes until later, and you're not in a hurry to get to Renaissance for Rationalism so it's best to research horizontally, stay in Medieval and keep the RAs cheap.
I now have a turn 232 OCC Arabia Science win in a single session (no save/loads) using this approach. It was slower to Scholasticism (late 60's), but I managed to avoid some errors I made in the previous game.
Arabia's start bias is hot for OCC Science victories, by the way. Desert -> Solar Plant = win.
I'm looking forward to it. This is similar to my own thinking: Scholasticism > RAs early. Especially while the CSs you're buying come with new luxuries, allowing you to sell your own. I think I'm even valuing Cultural over Maritime for my first one or two -- never thought I'd say that, but Scholasticism is just so strong, I have to get there quickly.
It's sometimes possible to hit Theology in time for your third SP, without a bulb. But not always, and I don't have full details worked out. You have avoid culture huts; get the NC up very early (maybe Mining or AH before Writing, but that's about the limit); either waste your first two policies on Honor, or take Liberty-Collective Rule and crank one or two more settlers to get your SP costs raised in time. My other main approach right now is Patronage fourth, taking Tradition through Landed Elite. This gives you more time, so you can go through IW-Metal Casting if you need the defence. The value of Landed Elite varies a lot with the number of Maritimes available. And Patronage fourth, taking Liberty through Meritocracy should have possibilities, I just haven't explored them yet.
No doubt. I like the "what is the best general start" as well as the "what is the best start if you start with x, y, and z" type posts. These super-quick start posts are fascinating.
i'd like to hear this as well, i have generally been doing the same start every game, need to braoden my horizons.
i always go for landed elite right away, then down the liberty tree for the great person, and then for theocracy.
the only thing i change up is whether i go straight for NC or build 2 settlers first.
i always go for landed elite right away, then down the liberty tree for the great person, and then for theocracy.
the only thing i change up is whether i go straight for NC or build 2 settlers first.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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That varies sharply depending on your approach, but I agree that approaches exist where allies > RAs. I won't be making a value judgment over which approach is best, but what I've found is that certain approaches are much better with certain civs and strategies than others.
If you're playing an expansionist strategy that can keep you from hitting the third/fourth policy before Theology, odds are that you don't really want to run down the Patronage line. That isn't to say that Patronage is bad (it isn't), but rather that under the present rules alternative approaches will dominate Patronage given the present modifiers.
Once I've validated the Babylon-specific strategy to my satisfaction, I will post. The OCC/Arabia and Siam strategies have checked out to my satisfaction, but I want to double check my Babylon approach before I post everything. The Babylon approach has been strong, but I want to verify that it is robust to an average start, as I tend to reroll lousy starts. The Siam (Legalism exploitation) approach checked out in a blah start even though I was an idiot and had to wait an extra ten turns for free Wats (and had to hard build the Wat in the capital due to Incense and self-ownage).
eric_
Emperor
Sorry, but what do y'all mean by "loan" and "borrow" in ciV?
Trade your gold per turn for cash. You lose in total gold, but you get cash now, which is key for getting benefits now.
eric_
Emperor
Ah! I dig it. Can't believe I never thought to do that!
Firvulag
Chieftain
yeah, same. Thanks for clearing up that abbreviation for me also.
snarzberry
Emperor
Yeah, Arabia's start bias along with the bazaar make them the best OCC civ for me. For Science you get the desert for solar plant, as you say, and for culture you're more likely to get incense, and hence a monastery, than any other civ.
Additionally, for both victory types the start bias helps in putting you normally in an out of the way place on the board, often with hills and deserts separating you from the other civs. The most common way to lose a deity occ is to get rushed early by an aggressive neighbour.
I'd take Siam over them if the starting location is really good, but overall I think Arabia is better.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I'm curious. Why do you have this nick? Do you take some satisfaction in the fact that you got it past the American censors who would never have allowed it in their own language? Or is it because you just want to stick your finger out at the entire world?
I'm guessing the former.
P.S. I once ran across a vanity plate in Ontario on the 401 which said TABRNAK. That was awesome because that was about stickin' it to the man.
Hint: Civfanatics ain't the man.
Been 10 years i use this nickname. In almost all my online games i played and forums i participated. Here in Quebec it's just a common word and it's used by a majority of people. I like this word for many reasons. It represents a bit where i come from. We have dozen and dozen of swear words in our language and it's part of our history. No offense for anybody. In french canadians sites they are also accepted.
So the true answers is ''no'' for your 2 questions.
Here is a video from Elvis Gratton(aka Julien Poulin) saying the word Tabarnak in many ways before making the movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYiata4w6dk&playnext=1&list=PL7CE7109E0DD18B6F
It's definitely worth it, when it is an early GS (prototype: Babylon's free GS, that comes with writing). When the techs become more expensive a free tech is imo better.
Holy thread resurrection, Batman
Original thread is indeed outdated.
The replacements are the 2 & 3 city NC start; particularly using Liberty's free worker & settler.
Cash rush the Library in the newest city or two so all your cities have Library's when you get Philosophy.
And it's no longer a beeline from turn 1 to the NC tech either; it's several worker techs first; some of which depend upon your terrain.
Original thread is indeed outdated.
The replacements are the 2 & 3 city NC start; particularly using Liberty's free worker & settler.
Cash rush the Library in the newest city or two so all your cities have Library's when you get Philosophy.
And it's no longer a beeline from turn 1 to the NC tech either; it's several worker techs first; some of which depend upon your terrain.
Treso
Warlord
The NC still being an important science boost in the start of the game.
I usually get philosophy after I get Iron Working and some luxuries techs.
I usually get philosophy after I get Iron Working and some luxuries techs.
RedRover57
Emperor
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I actually prefer settling 4 cities before building the NC, if there is good land and room around your starting site. It's worth it to delay the NC a bit in order to get 4 productive cities up and running as soon as possible. That way you have the ability to build troops in cities other than your capital. You can normally build the NC around T70-80ish with this strategy, followed by the Hagia Sophia. After you research Education, build universities in all 4 cities and run 2 science specialists in each (you need the pop to do this, which is why it is good to get your cities going early) then you will start cranking out GS's like crazy (Hagia Sophia plus garden if you are on rivers will speed this up). Try to get the unis up before T120 and you will easily out-tech the AI even on Immortal. Save all of the GS you produce to bulb your way to Dynamite (artillery) before T180, even without the need for many RA's, and then conquering the backwards AI will be a joke.
Excepted for Hagia Sophia, this is a good guide for multiplayer too.
''and then conquering the backwards human will be a joke.''
