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Please explain the "NC Start"

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Alatar1313, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    not sure what game you're playing, but my AIs never have 300g on turn 10. They are usually able to get that much by turn 30-40 (given their uses of it), but that's it. Even then, they don't always hit Philosophy early now.
     
  2. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    143:c5gold: and 5:c5gold:/turn is the usual turn 10 sale.

    I rush to Philosophy, since there's usually only one AI that has it at the time I want to start signing RAs. NC first helps there quite a bit.
     
  3. MouseyPounds

    MouseyPounds Prince

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    Hammer decay is 2% per turn after 10 turns for units and 1% per turn after 50 turns for buildings, according to the XML. I haven't tested it in recent patches, though.
     
  4. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    I'll have to check this out.

    Keeping in mind that they left a tonne of Civ4 crapola in the XMLs that aren't being used.
     
  5. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Pô Chi Min

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    If you put hammers in wonders, you never lose them(except if you got beat by AI for world ones, but you get the same amount of money). For units and buildings, it's like Mouseypounds said.

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=400695
     
  6. Robert Smith

    Robert Smith Prince

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    Y can sell 6 open border for 300 (50 each) :)
     
  7. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    #1: Before the patch, NC first exclusively meant NC before any cities. With one of the liberty policies granting a free settler, it now also includes plans that use that free settler, then NC then more settlers.

    #2: Late 30s to early 40s is what I experence

    #3: Going this way I like using the starting warrior as the only scout for a while and building a monument first. I like smaller maps though.

    Next build is a worker, then library which I prefer to cash rush if possible and then NC
    I'm trying to time the free settler policy to arrive right after I build the NC and am building a settler as well so my 2nd & 3rd cities are built about the same time.

    Also I manually move and lock workers into hammer productive tiles as the worker improves them.

    For policies going this path I like Tradition then Liberty then the policy that increases wonder speed (it will help the NC). I then pick the free settler & free worker policies and try to have the tech for Temples before the next policy comes so that I then pick Legalism and get a free Temple in the capital. Then in whatever order seems most benifital at the time the landed elite, monarchy, golden age (under Liberty), and free great people policies.

     
  8. Alatar1313

    Alatar1313 Chieftain

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    Thanks for all the info everyone has provided so far!

    A couple more questions:

    1. Do you bother with Oracle or Great Library in capitol or any other city? I've been trying to pick up one of the two but it's a lot of turns that my capitol isn't producing settlers. On the other hand, if I build like three settlers, some AI seems to get it before I do.

    2. What's the recommended use for the Great Person from Meritocracy? I've been either getting a scientist to drop an academy in my capitol to get multiplied by the NC and university or an engineer to rush Oracle or Library.
     
  9. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Personally, I wouldn't bother building wonders until after your done building your first wave of settlers. (Which on smaller maps may be your only wave).

    If your playing Egypt and also have Marble; a lot of wonders will be worthwhile.
    If neither is the case, not many wonders will be useful.

    There's lots of things you can do with that free great person. In my last game I used mine on a Great Merchant; many because a City State ally was demanding one.

     
  10. walkerjks

    walkerjks Prince

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    GE seems to be the clear choice if you have a late wonder that is critical for the type of victory you are going for. As a result of using it on a late wonder, I usually skip Meritocracy until the last SP choice before I need it.
     
  11. Schalke 04

    Schalke 04 Knappe

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    What about a GS to make an Academy?

    I haven't tested it, but I think having an Academy very early in a NC Capital could be worth it.
     
  12. gtsecc

    gtsecc Chieftain

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    Can anyone post what turns they are getting each Tech and Policy?
     
  13. Robert Smith

    Robert Smith Prince

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  14. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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  15. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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    Can anyone tell me if Aristocracy affects the build speed of the NC and other national wonders?
     
  16. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Yes it does. (I Played as Egypt shortly after the patch came out)

    In fact if playing Egypt with Marble and Aristocracy, there is a 60% increased production building the National College. (20% each from all three sources)

     
  17. grandad1982

    grandad1982 Deity

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  18. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    @ Martin

    How do you have a luxury for sale on turn 10? You must be settling right on the luxury and it would have to be a mine (gold, silver, gems) and then research Mining first? Doesn't this often place your capitol on a sub-optimal spot that could really hurt later? I guess this is a Diety strategy where you need all the help you can get to start?
     
  19. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    Yes, you need a luxury that can be mined for a turn 10 resale.

    As far as suboptimal location/burning a turn: I really don't care. If you loan the 5:c5gold: per turn back out, that's 143+112=255:c5gold: that you wouldn't otherwise have. For perspective, that's half of El Dorado, which is considered horribly imbalanced.

    It's the difference between Friends and Ally status with a Cultural, which makes a big difference that early. Alternately, it enables you to buy Friends with a Cultural and still usually have enough cash for a Library if you're going NC first. Finally, it permits purchasing a Granary in the starts where a Granary is crazy.

    If you put all the pieces together correctly, you can have Scholasticism as early as turn 60 in an OCC. That's a huge shot in the arm for early research, and it lets you tear up the Classical era and acquire the Medieval techs that are crucial to your game in a hurry. In the last Arabia OCC I played, I had Currency around turn 60 and Education on turn 70 without having to bother with blocking for Research Agreements.
     
  20. walkerjks

    walkerjks Prince

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    Are you bulbing Theology to open up Patronage that early?

    Thinking out loud - research mining, than to Theology. Buy a library (borrow if necessary) to speed up NC. Don't go crazy with SPs early as you want the Patronage ones to be cheap. As soon as you have the timing down so you can open Medieval and get a SP together, friend or ally (borrow if necessary) with a cultural CS. Setup some RAs along the way.

    Now your science is rolling in, your culture is healthy, and you're poised to take full advantage of whatever cultural CS alliances you can scrounge up, which will simply accelerate your culture and science gain.

    Is that close?
     

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