Please Read: Welcome to the C-IV GOTM

A few times I had to replay the last turn following a crash. I tried my best to do exactly the same moves in exactly the same order. By the end of the game I was saving at the end of every turn (right before clicking the little red circle to advance to the next turn). I also changed the autosave to go every turn.

I think that current expectation is that we should notify the gamemaster (ainwood in this case) about crashes via private message. My computer had one in GOTM 14, but not the usual video freeze. The larger maps in the lage game can give some video systems trouble.

I have found that making my unit moves, save, review cities, save, then hit end turn has been very useful when crashes occur. And playing on low graphics on the large maps.

I used to replay bad outcomes in my games before I started GOTM. Now living with my decisions has become second nature. When you have to live with the consequences, each mistake is a bigger lesson, so you learn faster. I know I have.

dV
 
first post, and want to say thanks to ainwood, AlanH, Gyathaar, and the rest of the GOTM crew that do such a great job running things. the forums are great fun to read and learn from. the games themselves are challenging.

thanks for lightening up a bit in WOTM-5. i like the range of levels that the games cycle through and the different game classes. for those that complain about the easy ones give them a challenger start without a settler.

the best part is comparing results to some of the great players around - though it is usually quite humbling. to that end, on the results page, in addition to getting the browser view of the events for each submission, can a download file (csv, xml, any text-based format) option be added.
 
@ Jenarie: You said that 1-4 was not what happened in your game. Let me try a restatement of 1-4 and see if that fits.

1. For everything except a conquest loss by the human (so I am told, I have never suffered that fate) ... you or an AI meets the victory conditions during turn X (you during your play, or the AI during the interturn after your play, which is the AI's turn X).

2. You hit end turn to complete your part of turn X. The AI take their turns, the interturn events are executed, and victory conditions are evaluated. Let's say human wins. Technically, the win is in turn X

3. The screen advances to turn X+1. I think then that the victory movie automatically plays, you are taken to the replay screen, you are told if you were Augustus Caesar or Dan Quayle (or something between the two), I think then comes the statistics screen. After you move through all of that, you have the choice of exit or play on.

4. Selecting one more turn lets you into the X+1 turn that is displayed behind the dialogue box with the choice (continue or not). One more turn does not further advance the game, as it already advanced to X+1 before you get the choice. Then you save the X+1 turn. Then you exit, and the save on exit function in the HOF mod (if activated) makes a second save at turn X+1. (Edit: I got this wrong. The mod makes a final save at turn X+1 as soon as the victory is announced, which will be time stamped before the save you can make after the "just one more turn". Or at least it does that if save on exit feature is enabled. See my following post.).

I just rechecked my save and this doesn't seem to me to be what happened. I have the files but they were from WOTM5 which just had final spoiler go up but isn't closed yet. Can I upload the files yet or would that not be ok?

The way I see it:

Cultural Victory
1) I have almost enough culture to win but I'm not there yet. I do any moves and hit end turn in turn X.
2) Turn X+1 comes up with the flash screen that says I won a cultural victory. I can't do anything but it is definitely turn X+1 not the previous turn - I can see the changed year. Movie starts and finishes etc.
3) Turn X+1 comes up again and gives the "more turn" option. I press that and see that I am still in Turn X+1 which is the year I won. I never moved any troops - I have all my moves left etc since it is the beginning of the new turn.

I guess it all happens between turns in a way so it depends on order of operations. Who goes first in the game? The AI or the human? I always thought the AI did but I could be wrong. The turn in which I won though is listed as X+1 not X so from what I can tell we hit "more turn" and save in the same turn in which we won not the turn after. I'm wondering if that is only cultural which would be why others see it differently then I do most often? Sadly I've never won a game that wasn't cultural I can't seem to make myself attack people. :)

Anyway, if I get the ok to upload the file - if not now then after WOTM5 closes - then hopefully it will make sense. It isn't a big deal - I know what to submit now which was the main thing - but I'm somewhat curious. :)
 
I have the files but they were from WOTM5 which just had final spoiler go up but isn't closed yet. Can I upload the files yet or would that not be ok?
I'd hold off until the game closes, or a mod says its OK.

I just rechecked my save and this doesn't seem to me to be what happened.

The way I see it:

Cultural Victory
1) I have almost enough culture to win but I'm not there yet. I do any moves and hit end turn in turn X.
2) Turn X+1 comes up with the flash screen that says I won a cultural victory. I can't do anything but it is definitely turn X+1 not the previous turn - I can see the changed year. Movie starts and finishes etc.
3) Turn X+1 comes up again and gives the "more turn" option. I press that and see that I am still in Turn X+1 which is the year I won. I never moved any troops - I have all my moves left etc since it is the beginning of the new turn.
I think that what you describe is exactly what I describe, but we have a different sense of what is meant by the turn of the win, and the turn after the win, so it seems different.

Let's say you build a warrior. You first get to move it on, say turn 20. Did you build it on turn 20? That is what I used to think. But if you look at how the logs record items, it will say you built it on turn 19. That is because the warrior was completed by the hammers that you got at the end of turn 19 (after your moves, so you could not move him in turn 19).

Research is similar ... logs say you discovered X on turn 19, and began Y on turn 20. But to the player, it seems like you discover and begin next on the same turn.

So with that in mind, you really achieved the cultural conditions on turn X, even though the game will say your victory is turn X+1. You didn't see that you met the conditions in turn X because the final steps of turn X (the AI turns and the addition of hammers, culture, etc.) do not occur until you are done with your part of turn X. I think of these as interturn events.

So when the instructions say submit the save of turn after victory, I assume they mean save of turn X+1, since they consider victory to have been in turn X (even though the game will credit the victory to turn X+1). But in one sense, since the game says victory is turn X+1, then turn after victory ought to be X+2, which is what I think your question arises from.

The idea of X+1 being the turn after victory is more clear in a conquest or domination victory. There, it is clear during your turn X that you won in turn X (you get the pop or land right away, or you killed the last civ). So X+1 is the turn after victory (again, even though the game credits the victory to X+1).

Hope that helps.

dV
 
The research example makes sense. I never knew it worked that way - I've never looked at logs. It seems like once you end your turn everything that happens after that should happen in the next turn but that is most likely the result of me not knowing when the AI takes its turn and what order everything is done in.

Thanks for explaining it! :)
 
I just rechecked my save and this doesn't seem to me to be what happened. I have the files but they were from WOTM5 which just had final spoiler go up but isn't closed yet. Can I upload the files yet or would that not be ok?

I'm not sure what your problem is. You uploaded your WOTM 5 submission a week ago, and you should have received feedback, both at the time and via e-mail, indicating your victory status and date. There appears to be no problem with your submission. You don't need to upload anything else, and in any case, the system would reject any attempt to upload a second time.

If you need assistance with your submissions at any time, or if the feedback you receive doesn't match your expectations, you should contact me so that we can resolve it. Use PM or the e-mail link on the submission page to reach me.

A "Turn after victory" save simply means a save made as soon as possible after you have seen the victory announcement. In other words, don't make the victory assessment yourself, wait until the game awards it to you.
 
No problem now Alan. I did upload it to submissions just fine. I probably should have said post rather then upload... I was thinking about attaching it to the post as part of the conversation about how the game worked. I was curious about the order in which everything happens during a turn which he explained very well on his last post. :)
 
Been playing Civ for a long time now, but never really investigated playing further than out of the box. I fancy a bash at this GOTM: I've patched up to include the HOF mod - is there anything else I should be doing?

Oh: and where do I submit my save to once I'm done?

Thanks in advance: looking forward to having a go!
 
Hello. Welcome to C-IV GOTM-land :wavey:

Try the GOTM web site, and the Newcomers' page in particular. The right hand margin of every page contains links to the various Civ4 GOTM resources. Come back here with any questions that aren't answered by those pages.
 
Maybe someone could mod the first post of this thread to say what mods are required / disallowed? Do I need to install anything to play? Can I play with Blake's AI?
The pregame discussion thread and the saves available thread for a given game will tell you what HOF mod version that game requries (and where to get it). As far as patches, that is also included, 1.61 vanilla and 2.08 for warlords IIRC. I don't think that Blake's AI is compatible with the ?OTMS, but I could be wrong.

Be sure you understand the rules around not replaying/reloading, as it seems that people come to the ?OTM with very different initial impressions of what should be allowed. Also the rules about when you can read the spoiler threads. Set autosave to every turn in case of crashes, and know how to proceed after a crash. Those are the biggest issues, IMO.

dV
 
Additionally, the only mods allowed, AFAIK are graphics mods like BlueMarble(perhaps only BlueMarble) and the HOF mod. Anything else, including blake's mod, are disallowed, but since the HOF mod is the one automatically loaded when you start up a saved game, you don't need to worry about removing the others...they'll just be ignored since you can only run 1 mod at a time.
 
Maybe someone could mod the first post of this thread to say what mods are required / disallowed? Do I need to install anything to play?

Yes, you will need the HoF Mod to play. Here is where you can get the latest version for the Civ4 Vanilla v1.61.010 and the Civ4 Warlords v2.08.003.

If you would like to understand the mod more please check out the HoF Mod description page. On that page you will find instructions on how to install the mod and what benefits you gain from the mod.

Welcome to GOTM!
 
Thanks for the information.

Unfortunately, I've got the Better AI mod DLL file installed (as recommended in the readme file) directly in the C:\Documents and Settings\$user$\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\CustomAssets folder, so it applies to all games and doesn't need to be loaded separately as a mod. I just checked, and it is running alongside the HOF mod in my copy of GOTM 16, so I guess I'm disqualified for this month.

It's too bad there isn't any information about using addition mods on the GOTM website. Ah, well, I guess there's always next month.
 
Unfortunately, I've got the Better AI mod DLL file installed (as recommended in the readme file) directly in the C:\Documents and Settings\$user$\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\CustomAssets folder, so it applies to all games and doesn't need to be loaded separately as a mod. I just checked, and it is running alongside the HOF mod in my copy of GOTM 16, so I guess I'm disqualified for this month.

Are you sure? The save uses the locked assets feature which makes it so that any mods even those located in your custom assetts folder unable to load.
 
Thanks for the information.

Unfortunately, I've got the Better AI mod DLL file installed (as recommended in the readme file) directly in the C:\Documents and Settings\$user$\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\CustomAssets folder, so it applies to all games and doesn't need to be loaded separately as a mod. I just checked, and it is running alongside the HOF mod in my copy of GOTM 16, so I guess I'm disqualified for this month.

It's too bad there isn't any information about using addition mods on the GOTM website. Ah, well, I guess there's always next month.

No - it won't have actually loaded. When you load the GOTM save file, its loads the HOF mod, including the HOF version of the DLL (instead of the better AI one).
 
Thanks for the information.

Unfortunately, I've got the Better AI mod DLL file installed (as recommended in the readme file) directly in the C:\Documents and Settings\$user$\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\CustomAssets folder, so it applies to all games and doesn't need to be loaded separately as a mod. I just checked, and it is running alongside the HOF mod in my copy of GOTM 16, so I guess I'm disqualified for this month.

It's too bad there isn't any information about using addition mods on the GOTM website. Ah, well, I guess there's always next month.
Despite what you may think, you are NOT using the BetterAI. Placing it in that folder has the effect of making it the 'default' copy of that particular DLL, superseding the one delivered by Firaxis, which will no longer be used ever. However, mods always take precedence over the default.

When you load a GOTM it will load the HOF mod, which has its own version of the DLL. That one will take precedence. So you are not using the BetterAI in a GOTM and you are not disqualified. :)
 
d'oh. I checked on my copy of GOTM 4, which didn't use the HOF mod. My bad. I've been enjoying playing the old GOTMs. At any rate, I'm disqualified anyway since after I thought I was disqualified, I read the spoiler thread.

There's always next month. And when my copy of Warlords arrives, I can play WOTM.

Thanks for the help.

p.s. it's nice to be playing Civ again. I didn't enjoy Civ3 much, so held off on buying Civ4 for a while. This is my first foray back into Civ since 2002.
 
Is there any chance a future GOTM will use the Better AI? Or is GOTM always going to be HOF mod only?

I'm not sure. There was a hard opposition towards making the HOF mod compulsory and it was done mainly for security purposes. So I doubt there will be another mod added soon.
 
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