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Please Read: Welcome to the C-IV GOTM

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by ainwood, Oct 29, 2005.

  1. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    If you are conquered then submit your last save. If you have no save for the defeat turn you can submit a retirement. Go to the C-IV submission page and you will see your options explained there. If you still have questions, come back here or PM me.
     
  2. McLMan

    McLMan Chieftain

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    Is re-naming the leader ok? What about the submitted save, should it be GOTMxxx.xxx or should it have my name in it?
     
  3. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

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    Renaming the leader is fine - renaming the game (from the in-game menu) is not.
     
  4. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    The save can have any name you like. It is renamed when uploaded.
     
  5. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    Hello,

    I am confused about the cheating rules, especially the reloading one.

    You wrote: "Reloading an earlier save-file and replaying turns in a different way. The only time you may reload a save file is to start a new play session, and you must use the save file from the end of your previous session."

    So what does this sentence mean? Let me clarify that the way events happen DO NOT CHANGE if I use the save file from the end of my previous session. AI will do same stuff next turn and I can try new moves without having to worry about what the AI will do, because AI just repeats history.
    The AI is just not random if you load from a previous turn where you saved and do 3-4 moves that lead you to win 3-4 fights, then at the move that made you lose the previous time you tried it, you can try something else(i.e. not attack: in order to save your unit) and you would not have lost any units.
    Is this cheating? I can't figure out from the way you worded yoru sentence.

    Also, if this is considered cheating, how am I supposed to finish a long game without ever turning my PC off? I can't just play a nonstop 24 hour game to finish one map, I need to give breaks. I may not save in order to load later because it is considered cheating. How does the random seed generator work on this game? I observed that events repeat, especially battle results, if I do the same moves in different or same turns.

    I did not know about these rules until recently, and I also have used WorldEditor to look up the map(or I could have played a test game to see where resources are). I just don't see how you promise to detect stuff like that and put in on the cheating list when everybody is doing it. You just can't determine whether someone used world editor or not, I think it should be allowed. But let me know how you reason your argument so I can understand as well.

    World editor even lets you put some imba resource around your city that you could remove later when the game is about to end. How can you detect this sort of cheating?

    Especially I am curious how you can determine whether someone used save/load cheating. I just see no way for doing so. I think it should be allowed. Again return your thoughts plz.

    Alright, I guess I will play gotm5 if everything goes alright.
     
  6. jeremiahrounds

    jeremiahrounds Chieftain

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    Ill take a stab!

    Any time you reload to try something else you are cheating. If you reload (perhaps due to instability) and you change your moves as best as you can remember them your cheating.

    In general saving and loading for purposes other then just to stop and resume your game is cheating.

    The world editor to look around is cheating.

    If you cannot play for more then a half hour at a time they recommend you dont play.

    There is some information recorded in your save game file that makes it possible to spot clues such as the times you reloaded.

    Is it possible to circumvent it? Maybe. In the end the value of participating in gotm for most of us isnt the rank but rather the common experience. So cheaters can take the rank but they cant take that.

    Youll see spoilers etc and dozens of ways to cheat the system. You prolly wont get noticed if you dont post at a high ranking. So you might think "oh no how am i supposed to resist cheating if I will get some more rank and not get noticed!" I dont know because i dont have that trouble. I think we would officially be operating on two different planes. And maybe its easier for people that suck like meh! They arnt burdened with being number 1 or even caring who is number 1. Since im more interested in having the same surprise and experience that everyone else has and there wouldnt be anyway to get more of that by cheating. In fact there is less.

    You can also keep retrying the gotm to see improvement. Many do that. But the good ones tell everyone which was really the first attempt. The bad ones dont even tell themselves which was the first attempt. Im sure some even pass off their later attempts as their first. But whats that really to you and me?
     
  7. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Yes, it's cheating. Reloading to change any event or action or decision in the light of previous experience is cheating.

    You save your game at a point where you want a break. You reload that save and play forward. Simple, no?

    We don't "promise" to spot all occurrences of cheating. The game as it is currently designed doesn't provide enough data to enable us to do that. We do try to use all the information that *is* provided in the game. But as jeremiahrounds has said, what's the point? No one gets prizes for high performances in GOTMs. The highest award on offer is the respect of other players for your achievements in trying the games, playing as well and honestly as you can, and improving your performance over time. You can't win and savour that award by cheating.

    No comment. Note that we intend to reduce a lot of scope for such actions as soon as the game is patched to allow us to use the password protection properly.

    If you think these things should be allowed then you are in a minority, and probably playing in the wrong competition.

    We await your submission with interest.
     
  8. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    Hi Jeremiahrounds, ty for input.

    To be honest, call me a cheater wanna be or not, I like saving/reloading just to get most out of my own troops vs insane bonuses AI gets at higher difficulties. =D Did you ever try immortal or deity difficulties? Even at this gotm, the AI gets insane bonuses.


    If I let them to fight on normal grounds, the AI just has numberwise 2x more(and higher tech) troops usually, and I would have to be an ubergosu/lucky civ4 player to beat the AI at higher difficulties.

    I just can't believe how people explain on spoiler that they got wins around 1000AD on contender. I find it impossible without saving/reloading to fight vs an army that is 2x yours because of the insane bonuses AI has. It is not like I can save my entire army; I do lose significant amount of troops even with save/reloading, but not as much.

    I will definitely try the bonus difficulty next time, because having a good, fast start with 2 bases is definitely more important than the %15 score reduction penalty.

    Don't tell me Isabella has no copper/iron at the start and that a good civ4 can steal copper/marble from Greece. According to the rules, you are not supposed to know what resources they have. I can't plan on making 3 galleys with 6 axeman to raze Isabella if I dunno what she got. She might as well get copper and more axeman by the time I arrive there. If I am not save/reloading and she has more axeman, it means I lose due to numbers.

    They just got 2x your troops and out produce you. Even with higher tech troops if you are lucky to capture their resources, they still got insane numbers. If you let the fights happen randomly where your best troops die quickly(City Raider or Combat 3-4 promoted), your chances are greatly lower if not zero.

    I know I am not the best strategist around and definitely a newbie(maybe mediocre) Civ4 player, but I would like to optimize my army to reduce all possible causalities. Does that mean I never lose troops? No, I will lose some troops to capture a city, but I wanna keep most my army alive, esp the higher promoted ones, to be able to attack next city.

    Alternatively, I could stack 10-15 catas and colleteral damage everything to low hp, but for that I would have to wait next gotm =D

    And yea, next time I am playing with the starting bonuses. The extra settler and archer are just such big advantages early game that %15 score reduction does not matter at all. The should do it like %50 score reduction.

    And if you can tell me how I can see at which times I uploaded my replay, I would be grateful. Which program to use to edit my save files to see at which times I reloaded?

    But again a sophisticated cheater can always play the game on 2 different machines, test save/reloading rounds on one machine and play fair on the other and submit the fair play replay to trick the rules. Too bad I have one machine at home :D

    Thanks again, hf at next gotm :D
     
  9. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    ""World editor even lets you put some imba resource around your city that you could remove later when the game is about to end. How can you detect this sort of cheating?

    No comment. Note that we intend to reduce a lot of scope for such actions as soon as the game is patched to allow us to use the password protection properly.""

    Ty AlanH for the information. I see 10 different ways for cheating until firaxis puts some password protection like you said. I will, however, remain a strong supporter for save/reloading. That is the most innocent way of cheating in my honest opinion. The AI has just too many imba production bonuses even with save/reloading.

    But as far as Gotm goes, I understand your rules and will play by the rules next time :D Gotm is cool, I learned a lot from the spoilers.

    Bye
     
  10. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Chieftain

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    The reason the AI has bonuses at higher difficulty levels is because people find it too easy to beat, otherwise, so the game is more fun with higher handicaps. Cheating by reloading is counterproductive; that just means that you have to give the AI even larger bonuses to make the game challenging.

    If you're one who finds the game sufficiently challenging at lower difficulty levels, why play at a higher level at all?
     
  11. jeremiahrounds

    jeremiahrounds Chieftain

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    "To be honest, call me a cheater wanna be or not, I like saving/reloading just to get most out of my own troops vs insane bonuses AI gets at higher difficulties. =D Did you ever try immortal or deity difficulties? Even at this gotm, the AI gets insane bonuses."

    Oh everything i said was in the context of GoTM. I wouldnt judge your nonGotm doings, your general meanderings, your choice of fun or your method of learning the game. Reload all you want! However in regards to gotm i had read these answers before. Fortunatly the staff here read the forums and reply alot so you have your official answer too =)
     
  12. drkodos

    drkodos Chieftain

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    Weighing in late here:

    After playing through a few Gotm's it seems obvious when a person has used some cheating maneuevers as opposed to just being fortuitous. It's like looking a Barry Bond's head four years ago. Period.

    If one is really good at looking at games, it should be easy to spot suspicious activities (but possibly difficult to prove).

    Making the "best possible move" in a new game onsight each and every turn for 20 or so in a row would have even Mr Spock's eyebrows raised. People with this type of luck need be at a roulette wheel, and not a Civ game.

    I plan on playing through my Gotm6 a few times after learning what I learned on the first get go to see if I can honestly maximize the game, but would only submit my first highly flawed result. In the climbing world, the best stories and tales are those epics that did not go as originally planned.

    When everything goes as expected, the aftermath stories tend to be dull and lifeless.




    Anyway, to me, going for the fastest victory is too similar to seeing who can orgasm the fastest.

    Like a good book, wine, trip or CIV game, it's the journey that matters most, not the destination.
     
  13. CivGeneral

    CivGeneral Valkyrie Cybernetic Grand General

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    I have a question in regards to submiting a game. How can I identify that I have played the Adventurer Save when submiting a save? And yes, this is my first time actualy finishing a GOTM and submiting it :).

    Also, where in the world do I find the replay file in my Civ4 directory? :confused:.
     
  14. Samson

    Samson Chieftain

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    I think it is worked out automaticly from the save file. You do not need to identify it on the submition form.
    C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR_NAME\My Documents\My Games\Civilization 4\Replays or some such.
     
  15. CivGeneral

    CivGeneral Valkyrie Cybernetic Grand General

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    Thanks, I just submited my first ever GOTM sumition. Though I did not do too well on the game itself :(. (But I'll wait untill the end-game spoiler for GOTM6 comes up)
     
  16. migthegreek

    migthegreek Back In Black

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    Hi everyone,

    I would like to enter the next GOTM, and also try out the old ones. I have a couple of questions though:

    1. Where are the files to play them? I can't seem to find the starting saved games posted anywhere.

    2. What is the Adventurer Class and Challenger Class thing? I have no idea what that is or if i have to do something differently.

    3. Do I just play the game according to the set rules for that game and post the replay when I either win or lose?

    4. Should I not look at the spoiler threads until I'm finished with my game?
     
  17. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Welcome. There's an intro page for people starting to play GOTMs here

    Go to the GOTM web site. The right hand column includes the link to the current game page plus a menu and buttons to reach the previous game release pages and results. Game release pages contain download links fo rthe start files.

    This thread describes the three classes. When you have decided which class to play at, choose the appropriate file to download from the game release page.
    You play the game according to the GOTM competiton rules - no reloads etc. When you have won, lost or retired you submit your saved game and replay files using the submission page.

    There are usually two spoiler threads for C-IV GOTMs. The first, mid-game spoiler opens five or six days after the game starts, and the first post tells you what conditions you need to fulfil to read or post in it. The final spoiler is the end of game one, and you must have completed the game before reading or posting there.
     
  18. migthegreek

    migthegreek Back In Black

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    Thanks for your help. I think I know everything I need to know now.
     
  19. May Day 10

    May Day 10 Chieftain

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    I cant wait to join one of these!!!
     
  20. ionimplant

    ionimplant Chieftain

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    when will we be allowed to use warlord to play gotm?

    i might be the only unfortunate soul who couldn't see forest/jungle on the map ever after the fivth gotm4. i haven't played civ4 since then. now i bought the warlord and everything is working. but... i find i am not allowed to use warlord to play gotm :p
     

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